G
guanophore
Guest
I think it is a foul when anyone does it.
- Status
R
Rolltide
Guest
Actually, I believe devotion to Mary really started to take off right about the time the Trinity, another “controversial” idea that many people rejected, became fully defined. In the same way that belief in the Trinity had always been around but needed further development, so was intercessionary prayer around from the beginning, but further developed.
M
Methodi
Guest
A lot of catholics churches have cliques. They want to do it all & they do try to freeze some out, they think the church is only for them> There were cliques in our church & Our pastor came down on it. I am catholic, & your right catholics are not friendly at all compared to the people in Protestant churches I met.I sent my child to catholic school. I understand the Mass is not a social event.
I am involved in all the fundraisers, and volunteer for just about everything. They still are cold to me.
Not so with the Lutherans.
Self centered christianity stinks
C
Cinette
Guest
There is a difference between intercessory prayer and Prayer of Worship and Praise.
One of the Commandments is “Honour thy Father and Mother”. If God considered it so important to do so that he made it one of the 10 Commandments how much more would he expect us to honour His Mother - the Mother of God!
I guess it must be difficult for a non-Catholic to understand our ways but don’t judge us out of hand. Try to understand. When you look at the intellect in the Catholic Church, the great men and women of learning, those who could make a fortune in the secular world but who choose to give up worldly things to dedicate their lives in service of the Church - ask yourself why? It makes you think doesn’t it? And remember, life on earth is short - Eternal Life is forever.
If you just accept and swallow the lies which are bandied about regarding the Catholic Church (it is the favourite target of the devil - the bull’s eye) you do not do yourself justice. You must dig deep, enquire, learn. Then you can decide.
We all know that conservatively speaking about 30% of what we are exposed to in the media are outright lies. Now how are we to distinguish which is truth and which is lie? If we believe everything then we know that 30% of what we believe is a lie. If we discern and research and dig deep we might identify 15% of lies. But which 15% which 30%?
With the Church we have Jesus’ word that he will be with us always and that the Holy Spirit will guide us into all truth. That is reassuring. Seek and you shall find, knock… We know that we have the full truth.
C
Cinette
Guest
Are you aware of the mountain of books full of hatred and lies about the Catholic Church which are produced by Protestants?
As a Protestant you should be able to answer my question. Do you know of any books and can you name them where Catholics have written lies and spew hatred about Protestants?
There will be books setting the record straight in response to the lies and misconceptions but I doubt tht you will find one which promotes lies and hatred for Protestants.
That is fact!
C
Cinette
Guest
We mustn’t forget that Mary was close to the Apostles. She was with them at the Last Supper, she was at the foot of the Cross (only John was there with her), she was in the upper room, Jesus asked John to take care of her. She was there at Pentecost. You can imagine they must have loved her very much and when she was no longer with them they would have known that she was with God and they would have asked her to put in a good word for them.
Mary was there from the very beginning.
What about the numerous apparitions? Lourdes, Fatima etc?
What about the miracles?
You cannot dismiss Mother Mary out of hand like that. Many Protestants love her also and say the rosary.
You do not do justice to yourself if you choose to ignore Mary!
A
a_mirror_dimly
Guest
Hm, where do you get that Mary was at the Last Supper? None of the Gospels mention her presence there, and even none of my usual sources for Catholic beliefs make mention of this.
R
Rolltide
Guest
I think what she means is not that she was literally at the Last Supper, but that she was in the area and visiting them. We know that she was there during the Crucifixion and visited the Apostles when they were in hiding. All of this was clearly in the same week as the Last Supper.
C
Cinette
Guest
Oops! I am fallible you know.
Jesus was preparing the Apostles for what was to come so yes, maybe he didn’t want to worry her too much. Somehow I would imagine she would be there although it is not mentioned.
Thank you for correcting me.
Blessings
T
twb1621
Guest
post 1 0f 2
OUOTE Originally Posted by Martin777
Correct. But pray to God alone. If you reallty understood the magnitude of his Authority and his love for us and his intercessory position, you would understand how ludicrous praying to Mary is! What an insult to the Sovereign Lord, and what a hideous misunderstanding of Holy Scripture! No wonder you need to claim that it is OK for your leaders to add to Scripture! Do you even realize how misgiven that practice appears to the rest of the Christian world (you know, the poor, misinformed, clueless missionaries, pastors, elders and rank and file Christians that serve their Savior with joy every day and have the Holy Spirit in them to illumine God’s Word!)
it would help to understand and to keep in mind not only that the “woman” spoken of in the OT was Mary in the prophecies but also that she was predestined to suffer the pain of the sword as prophesied by Simeon at the temple. This was the reason Jesus referred to her as “woman” at times referring her to those prophecies. In fact, if you make the Compression, Mary’s life was (although a difference in degrees) to parallel the life of Jesus right down to His passion and suffering yet she remained as silent in her suffering as Jesus in His. It is a fact recognized by all Christians that the Blood of Christ is the Blood of our salvation. Mary was born full of grace and created by God with purity to be the ark of the new covenant just as God directed the construction of the ark of the old covenant. Mary was even more precious because it would be the Son of God who she would carry.
But most importantly, it should not be difficult to understand that if the blood of Jesus is the source of our salvation, this very blood pulsating through the veins of Jesus flowed through the veins of Mary and from her through Him. Her devotion and her immaculate nature could not have been flawed to start with and certainly could not have been soiled after sharing the living blood of Christ. If it were, there would be no salvation at all from the spilling of this very same blood and their shared torment and suffering. In sharing such a parallel it would also be a logical expectation that Jesus would have wanted her assumption as well.
As far as scripture, It would also stand to reason that considering the persecution of Christians at that time, the Apostles would have been very protective of Mary in her remaining years avoiding writing or any public proclamations having to do with her that might be used against her in some way. The logical thought would be that information regarding her life and death and assumption was passed on through Sacred Tradition but kept protected until such a time it could more safely be revealed along with the location she was originally laid to rest before the assumption. (Theoretically)
Some excerpts to ponder;
64. “Through the prophets, God forms his people in the hope of salvation, in the expectation of a new and everlasting Covenant intended for all, to be written on their hearts. [Cf. Is 2:2-4 ; Jer 31:31-34 ; Heb 10:16 .] The prophets proclaim a radical redemption of the People of God, purification from all their infidelities, a salvation, which will include all the nations. [Cf. Ezek 3:6; Is 49:5-6; Is 53:11 .] Above all, the poor and humble of the Lord will bear this hope. Such holy women as Sarah, Rebecca, Rachel, Miriam, Deborah, Hannah, Judith and Esther kept alive the hope of Israel’s salvation. The purest figure among them is Mary. [Cf. Ezek 2:3 ; Lk 1:38 .]”
148. “The Virgin Mary most perfectly embodies the obedience of faith. By faith Mary welcomes the tidings and promise brought by the angel Gabriel, believing that ‘with God nothing will be impossible’ and so giving her assent: ‘Behold I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be (done) to me according to your word.’ [Lk 1:37-38; cf. Gen 18:14.] Elizabeth greeted her: ‘Blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfillment of what was spoken to her from the Lord.’ [Lk 1:45 .] It is for this faith that all generations have called Mary blessed. [Cf. Lk 1:48.]”
273. “Only faith can embrace the mysterious ways of God’s almighty power. This faith glories in its weaknesses in order to draw to itself Christ’s power. [Cf. 2 Cor 12:9 ; Phil 4:13.] The Virgin Mary is the supreme model of this faith, for she believed that ‘nothing will be impossible with God’, and was able to magnify the Lord: ‘For he who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is his name.’ [Lk 1:37, 49.]”
487. “What the Catholic faith believes about Mary is based on what it believes about Christ, and what it teaches about Mary illumines in turn its faith in Christ.”
490. “To become the mother of the Savior, Mary ‘was enriched by God with gifts appropriate to such a role.’ [LG 56.] The angel Gabriel at the moment of the annunciation salutes her as ‘full of grace’. [Lk 1:28 .] In fact, in order for Mary to be able to give the free assent of her faith to the announcement of her vocation, it was necessary that she be wholly borne by God’s grace.”
491. “Through the centuries the Church has become ever more aware that Mary, ‘full of grace’ through God, [Lk 1:28 .] was redeemed from the moment of her conception. That is what the dogma of the Immaculate Conception confesses, as Pope Pius IX proclaimed in 1854: The most Blessed Virgin Mary was, from the first moment of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of almighty God and by virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, Savior of the human race, preserved immune from all stain of original sin. [Pius IX,
Ineffabilis Deus (1854): DS 2803.]”
catscans.com/catholicsite/mary.htm
Continued at post 2 of 2
OUOTE Originally Posted by Martin777
Correct. But pray to God alone. If you reallty understood the magnitude of his Authority and his love for us and his intercessory position, you would understand how ludicrous praying to Mary is! What an insult to the Sovereign Lord, and what a hideous misunderstanding of Holy Scripture! No wonder you need to claim that it is OK for your leaders to add to Scripture! Do you even realize how misgiven that practice appears to the rest of the Christian world (you know, the poor, misinformed, clueless missionaries, pastors, elders and rank and file Christians that serve their Savior with joy every day and have the Holy Spirit in them to illumine God’s Word!)
it would help to understand and to keep in mind not only that the “woman” spoken of in the OT was Mary in the prophecies but also that she was predestined to suffer the pain of the sword as prophesied by Simeon at the temple. This was the reason Jesus referred to her as “woman” at times referring her to those prophecies. In fact, if you make the Compression, Mary’s life was (although a difference in degrees) to parallel the life of Jesus right down to His passion and suffering yet she remained as silent in her suffering as Jesus in His. It is a fact recognized by all Christians that the Blood of Christ is the Blood of our salvation. Mary was born full of grace and created by God with purity to be the ark of the new covenant just as God directed the construction of the ark of the old covenant. Mary was even more precious because it would be the Son of God who she would carry.
But most importantly, it should not be difficult to understand that if the blood of Jesus is the source of our salvation, this very blood pulsating through the veins of Jesus flowed through the veins of Mary and from her through Him. Her devotion and her immaculate nature could not have been flawed to start with and certainly could not have been soiled after sharing the living blood of Christ. If it were, there would be no salvation at all from the spilling of this very same blood and their shared torment and suffering. In sharing such a parallel it would also be a logical expectation that Jesus would have wanted her assumption as well.
As far as scripture, It would also stand to reason that considering the persecution of Christians at that time, the Apostles would have been very protective of Mary in her remaining years avoiding writing or any public proclamations having to do with her that might be used against her in some way. The logical thought would be that information regarding her life and death and assumption was passed on through Sacred Tradition but kept protected until such a time it could more safely be revealed along with the location she was originally laid to rest before the assumption. (Theoretically)
Some excerpts to ponder;
64. “Through the prophets, God forms his people in the hope of salvation, in the expectation of a new and everlasting Covenant intended for all, to be written on their hearts. [Cf. Is 2:2-4 ; Jer 31:31-34 ; Heb 10:16 .] The prophets proclaim a radical redemption of the People of God, purification from all their infidelities, a salvation, which will include all the nations. [Cf. Ezek 3:6; Is 49:5-6; Is 53:11 .] Above all, the poor and humble of the Lord will bear this hope. Such holy women as Sarah, Rebecca, Rachel, Miriam, Deborah, Hannah, Judith and Esther kept alive the hope of Israel’s salvation. The purest figure among them is Mary. [Cf. Ezek 2:3 ; Lk 1:38 .]”
148. “The Virgin Mary most perfectly embodies the obedience of faith. By faith Mary welcomes the tidings and promise brought by the angel Gabriel, believing that ‘with God nothing will be impossible’ and so giving her assent: ‘Behold I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be (done) to me according to your word.’ [Lk 1:37-38; cf. Gen 18:14.] Elizabeth greeted her: ‘Blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfillment of what was spoken to her from the Lord.’ [Lk 1:45 .] It is for this faith that all generations have called Mary blessed. [Cf. Lk 1:48.]”
273. “Only faith can embrace the mysterious ways of God’s almighty power. This faith glories in its weaknesses in order to draw to itself Christ’s power. [Cf. 2 Cor 12:9 ; Phil 4:13.] The Virgin Mary is the supreme model of this faith, for she believed that ‘nothing will be impossible with God’, and was able to magnify the Lord: ‘For he who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is his name.’ [Lk 1:37, 49.]”
487. “What the Catholic faith believes about Mary is based on what it believes about Christ, and what it teaches about Mary illumines in turn its faith in Christ.”
490. “To become the mother of the Savior, Mary ‘was enriched by God with gifts appropriate to such a role.’ [LG 56.] The angel Gabriel at the moment of the annunciation salutes her as ‘full of grace’. [Lk 1:28 .] In fact, in order for Mary to be able to give the free assent of her faith to the announcement of her vocation, it was necessary that she be wholly borne by God’s grace.”
491. “Through the centuries the Church has become ever more aware that Mary, ‘full of grace’ through God, [Lk 1:28 .] was redeemed from the moment of her conception. That is what the dogma of the Immaculate Conception confesses, as Pope Pius IX proclaimed in 1854: The most Blessed Virgin Mary was, from the first moment of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of almighty God and by virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, Savior of the human race, preserved immune from all stain of original sin. [Pius IX,
Ineffabilis Deus (1854): DS 2803.]”
catscans.com/catholicsite/mary.htm
Continued at post 2 of 2
T
twb1621
Guest
Post 2 of 2 continued
“For as Eve was seduced by the word of an angel to flee from God, having rebelled against His Word, so Mary by the word of an angel received the glad tidings that she would bear God by obeying his Word. The former was seduced to disobey God, but the latter was persuaded to obey God, so that the Virgin Mary might become the advocate of the virgin Eve. As the human race was subjected to death through [the act of] a virgin, so it was saved by a virgin.”
Irenaeus, Against Heresies, V:19,1(A.D. 180),in ANF,I:547
“Under your mercy we take refuge, O Mother of God. Do not reject our supplications in necessity, but deliver us from danger,[O you] alone pure and alone blessed.”
Sub Tuum Praesidium, Egypt 3rd Century, From Rylands Papyrus,in MCF,79
“O noble Virgin, truly you are greater than any other greatness. For who is your equal in greatness, O dwelling place of God the Word? To whom among all creatures shall I compare you, O Virgin? You are greater than them all O Covenant, clothed with purity instead of gold! You are the Ark in which is found the golden vessel containing the true manna, that is, the flesh in which divinity resides.”
Athanasius, Homily of the Papyrus of Turin,71:216(ante AD 373),in MCF,106
“Recalling these and other circumstances and imploring the Virgin Mary to bring assistance, since she, too, was a virgin and had been in danger, she entrusted herself to the remedy of fasting and sleeping on the ground.”
Gregory of Nazianzen, Oration 24:11(A.D. 379),in MCF,167
“Let, then, the life of Mary be as it were virginity itself, set forth in a likeness, from which, as from a mirror, the appearance of chastity and the form of virtue is reflected… Nor would I hesitate to admit you to the altars of God, whose souls I would without hesitation call altars, on which Christ is daily offered for the redemption of the body. For if the virgin’s body be a temple of God, what is her soul, which, the ashes, as it were, of the body being shaken off, once more uncovered by the hand of the Eternal Priest, exhales the vapour of the divine fire. Blessed virgins, who emit a fragrance through divine grace as gardens do through flowers, temples through religion, altars through the priest.”
Ambrose, On Virginity II:6,18(AD 378),in NPNF2,X:374,376
“For it is said that he[Gregory the Wonderworker] heard the one who had appeared in womanly form exhorting John the Evangelist to explain to the young man the mystery of the true faith. John, in his turn, declared that he was completely willing to please the Mother of the Lord even in this matter and this was the one thing closest to his heart. And so the discussion coming to a close, and after they had made it quite clear and precise for him, the two disappeared from his sight.”
Gregory of Nyssa,On Gregory the WonderWorker(AD 380),PG 46:912,in MCF,94
I STOPPED BEFORE AD 400 BUT THIS IS CONTINUED AT
cin.org/users/jgallegos/mary_dev.htm
“For as Eve was seduced by the word of an angel to flee from God, having rebelled against His Word, so Mary by the word of an angel received the glad tidings that she would bear God by obeying his Word. The former was seduced to disobey God, but the latter was persuaded to obey God, so that the Virgin Mary might become the advocate of the virgin Eve. As the human race was subjected to death through [the act of] a virgin, so it was saved by a virgin.”
Irenaeus, Against Heresies, V:19,1(A.D. 180),in ANF,I:547
“Under your mercy we take refuge, O Mother of God. Do not reject our supplications in necessity, but deliver us from danger,[O you] alone pure and alone blessed.”
Sub Tuum Praesidium, Egypt 3rd Century, From Rylands Papyrus,in MCF,79
“O noble Virgin, truly you are greater than any other greatness. For who is your equal in greatness, O dwelling place of God the Word? To whom among all creatures shall I compare you, O Virgin? You are greater than them all O Covenant, clothed with purity instead of gold! You are the Ark in which is found the golden vessel containing the true manna, that is, the flesh in which divinity resides.”
Athanasius, Homily of the Papyrus of Turin,71:216(ante AD 373),in MCF,106
“Recalling these and other circumstances and imploring the Virgin Mary to bring assistance, since she, too, was a virgin and had been in danger, she entrusted herself to the remedy of fasting and sleeping on the ground.”
Gregory of Nazianzen, Oration 24:11(A.D. 379),in MCF,167
“Let, then, the life of Mary be as it were virginity itself, set forth in a likeness, from which, as from a mirror, the appearance of chastity and the form of virtue is reflected… Nor would I hesitate to admit you to the altars of God, whose souls I would without hesitation call altars, on which Christ is daily offered for the redemption of the body. For if the virgin’s body be a temple of God, what is her soul, which, the ashes, as it were, of the body being shaken off, once more uncovered by the hand of the Eternal Priest, exhales the vapour of the divine fire. Blessed virgins, who emit a fragrance through divine grace as gardens do through flowers, temples through religion, altars through the priest.”
Ambrose, On Virginity II:6,18(AD 378),in NPNF2,X:374,376
“For it is said that he[Gregory the Wonderworker] heard the one who had appeared in womanly form exhorting John the Evangelist to explain to the young man the mystery of the true faith. John, in his turn, declared that he was completely willing to please the Mother of the Lord even in this matter and this was the one thing closest to his heart. And so the discussion coming to a close, and after they had made it quite clear and precise for him, the two disappeared from his sight.”
Gregory of Nyssa,On Gregory the WonderWorker(AD 380),PG 46:912,in MCF,94
I STOPPED BEFORE AD 400 BUT THIS IS CONTINUED AT
cin.org/users/jgallegos/mary_dev.htm
H
HankZ
Guest
Mary was a Godly woman, according to scripture. She was chosen by God to do a wonderful work. She was married, had several children, lived her life, then she died. God’s word tells us it is appointed unto men, once to die, then the judgement.We mustn’t forget that Mary was close to the Apostles. She was with them at the Last Supper, she was at the foot of the Cross (only John was there with her), she was in the upper room, Jesus asked John to take care of her. She was there at Pentecost. You can imagine they must have loved her very much and when she was no longer with them they would have known that she was with God and they would have asked her to put in a good word for them.
Why would they ask her to put in a good word for them? They just spent 3 years in a very personal relationship with the Savior. If that doesn’t work they are out of luck.
Mary was there from the very beginning.
Do you mean that she traveled with Him everywhere He went?
What about the numerous apparitions? Lourdes, Fatima etc?
People can be decieved very easily.
What about the miracles?
What miracles are you refering to?
You cannot dismiss Mother Mary out of hand like that. Many Protestants love her also and say the rosary.
I do not know of anyone who believes that Jesus is the only way and yet waist their time praying to a dead person. Catholics are taught that Mary didn’t die, but that is not found in scripture. If she was still alive, God’s word would give some indication if it mattered.
You do not do justice to yourself if you choose to ignore Mary!
Do you think Mary existed before God? How then did she become the mother of God? Jesus, the Son of God, was born of her, but He existed since before the foundations of the earth. Do you believe that Mary can somehow pull favors from God for you? She doesn’t know you. Mary is so enthralled with the fact she is in the presence of God that you mean nothing. Your relationship with God is all that matters for your eternity, same as was Mary. She trusted in God alone to Save her and He was faithful to her, as far as we know. Nothing says she was somehow removed from this earth before her time and that is a false teaching. I do not hate anyone who believes this lie, but only telling you that it is a lie.
HankZ
O
onenow1
Guest
Hi,All
Luke 1: 32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David,
33 and he will reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there will be no end."
Jesus Kingdom is here now and he is reigning forever, that’s what God says that’s the way it is in verse 32, believe it or not ?
.luke 2: 51 And he went down with them and came to Nazareth, and was obedient to them; and his mother kept all these things in her heart.
Since an obedient son honors there mother, I would say its a safe bet, Mary sits on a throne next to Jesus, and the Catholic Church has been right on from the beginning.
Peace, onenow1
Luke 1: 32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David,
33 and he will reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there will be no end."
Jesus Kingdom is here now and he is reigning forever, that’s what God says that’s the way it is in verse 32, believe it or not ?
.luke 2: 51 And he went down with them and came to Nazareth, and was obedient to them; and his mother kept all these things in her heart.
Since an obedient son honors there mother, I would say its a safe bet, Mary sits on a throne next to Jesus, and the Catholic Church has been right on from the beginning.
Peace, onenow1
T
twb1621
Guest
you are referred to posts #592 and #593
T
twb1621
Guest
Refer to posts #592 and 593. Perhaps you can better understand then
S
sambos671
Guest
You make certain assumptions here that Catholics do not catagorically believe. Such as Mary existed before Jesus. The title “Mother of God” or Theotokos which it originally was stated is a direct referrance to the Deity of Jesus. There were some early in church history who was saying Mary gave birth to a human not God himself. Some said that Jesus was “possessed” by the divine spirit. Others had some mystical merging where the human side disappeared all together in favor of Deity. Other said he was just a man. So Theotokos became the statement to show that Jesus was God from the begining so Mary gave birth to the divine. The man who is also God. Which later called another aspect into question how much God how much man? They eventually came up with the Doctrine that Jesus was totally divine and totally human without contradiction or loosing one aspect. Thats how the term came to be any way. Also do you think when you die that once you are in the presence of God you will be so overcome by his presence that you careless about other people and only bask in the Joy of God? No I disagree with this belief. “To be great in God’s kingdom you must be the servant of all” You can’t really do that if you’re just basking. Basking is self-centered. God wants us to be other centered. What do the angels do? They make petitions for us. Why would we not do that as well? Being in God’s presence doesn’t mean exclussion of everyone else but an inclusion of everyone (saved) and the opportunity to serve others as well as God. According to Catholic belief this is what Mary is doing constantly petitioning for mankind in humble obedience to God as she also basks in his glory. Finally, no one has any documents of what happened to Mary after the gospel stories we can follow her and John to Turkey but it stops there. There Catholics believe she was assumed up into heaven. And it is passed down by tradition. Othodox believe that she died but she was raised recieving the promise before us. (I may have that wrong but I’m not orthodox or Catholic) but before you say something about someone else’s belief learn a bit about it before making catagorical statements.
S
ShellKell
Guest
I’m guessing that the “Non-Catholic Protestants” that you are talking about are as unchairitble as these two. I know that there are people out there that claim to be Christians who hate the Catholic church, but I don’t think that they are real Christians. As you know Christ two greatest commands are to “Love” Him and one another. They do not show love any more than the posters above wrapped in quotes. God will judge them as he will us. What we need to do as Christians is to live our lives for Him and not ourselves.
H
HankZ
Guest
On the first page, you said that Jesus blood, flowed through Mary.
This is not true. A child has his own blood and it never mixes with that of his mother. Mary had the blood of a sinner same as you and me.
These are horrible! You should be repenting of such outragious filth and begging God to forgive you for whorshipping an idol like this false image of this Mary you are so obsessed with. How dare you take what Christ has done and take the Glory due to Him and put it on this false Mary idol. Christ cannot be sacrificed anymore, He said, “It is finished.”
[barfing icon here]
HankZ
C
Cinette
Guest
We mustn’t forget that Mary was close to the Apostles. She was with them at the Last Supper, she was at the foot of the Cross (only John was there with her), she was in the upper room, Jesus asked John to take care of her. She was there at Pentecost. You can imagine they must have loved her very much and when she was no longer with them they would have known that she was with God and they would have asked her to put in a good word for them.
*
Why would they ask her to put in a good word for them? They just spent 3 years in a very personal relationship with the Savior. If that doesn’t work they are out of luck.*
When has life ever run smoothly for everyone? Who on this earth has never had a cross to carry? Are you not aware that the early Christians were persecuted? That for the first 300 years every Pope was martyred? They were thrown to the lions. Or perhaps you do not believe that? Perhaps you deny history?
*
Mary was there from the very beginning.*
*
Do you mean that she traveled with Him everywhere He went?*
Perhaps I don’t know but John took care of her maybe in the same way anyone takes care of a Mother or family member. Mary also might have played a role in spreading the good news. Who knows? What is known is that she was always loved and venerated.
What about the numerous apparitions? Lourdes, Fatima etc?
*People can be decieved very easily.
*
*That is perfectly true and why the Church is scrupulously cautious about these things. Bernadette (as also the children at Fatima) was a very simple illiterate child and yet she was able to convey the messages given to her which proved the authenticity of the apparitions and her account of them. During the 150 years following the first apparitions the Church has only authenticated 66 miracles. There is a team of Doctors who study, examine, research, record every case reported to them (not all healings are reported and healings may be both physical and spiritual). The Doctors are not all Catholics, they also comprise Protestants and even Atheists. This is remarkable, as is the case with Fatima. You are not bound to believe this. This is our belief – we will not censure you for not believing – it is your prerogative.
*
*What about the miracles?
*
*What miracles are you refering to? As above –I am surprised you have never heard of these spectacular events as they have been documented and recorded.
*
You cannot dismiss Mother Mary out of hand like that. Many Protestants love her also and say the rosary.
*I do not know of anyone who believes that Jesus is the only way and yet waist(waste?) their time praying to a dead person. What dead person??? Catholics are taught that Mary didn’t die, but that is not found in scripture. If she was still alive, God’s word would give some indication if it mattered. Oh I see you do not believe that Jesus died for the forgiveness of sins and to earn our salvation, in the Resurrection, in Eternal Life? It would not make sense for Jesus to go to all that trouble for dead people!!! *
*
You do not do justice to yourself if you choose to ignore Mary!
*
Mary was a Godly woman, according to scripture. She was chosen by God to do a wonderful work. She was married, had several children,That is your interpretation lived her life, then she died. God’s word tells us it is appointed unto men, once to die, then the judgement.
Do you think Mary existed before God? What a question – of course not! How then did she become the mother of God? *That is easily explained – are you genuinely interested? If so let me know and I shall tell you. *Jesus, the Son of God, was born of her, but He existed since before the foundations of the earth. correct Do you believe that Mary can somehow pull favors from God for you? *Yes * She doesn’t know you. Mary is so enthralled with the fact she is in the presence of God that you mean nothing. Oh? Your relationship with God is all that matters for your eternity, same as was Mary. She trusted in God alone to Save her and He was faithful to her, as far as we know. Nothing says she was somehow removed from this earth before her time and that is a false teaching. That is your interpretation and belief. I do not hate anyone who believes this lie, but only telling you that it is a lie
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Why would they ask her to put in a good word for them? They just spent 3 years in a very personal relationship with the Savior. If that doesn’t work they are out of luck.*
When has life ever run smoothly for everyone? Who on this earth has never had a cross to carry? Are you not aware that the early Christians were persecuted? That for the first 300 years every Pope was martyred? They were thrown to the lions. Or perhaps you do not believe that? Perhaps you deny history?
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Mary was there from the very beginning.*
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Do you mean that she traveled with Him everywhere He went?*
Perhaps I don’t know but John took care of her maybe in the same way anyone takes care of a Mother or family member. Mary also might have played a role in spreading the good news. Who knows? What is known is that she was always loved and venerated.
What about the numerous apparitions? Lourdes, Fatima etc?
*People can be decieved very easily.
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*That is perfectly true and why the Church is scrupulously cautious about these things. Bernadette (as also the children at Fatima) was a very simple illiterate child and yet she was able to convey the messages given to her which proved the authenticity of the apparitions and her account of them. During the 150 years following the first apparitions the Church has only authenticated 66 miracles. There is a team of Doctors who study, examine, research, record every case reported to them (not all healings are reported and healings may be both physical and spiritual). The Doctors are not all Catholics, they also comprise Protestants and even Atheists. This is remarkable, as is the case with Fatima. You are not bound to believe this. This is our belief – we will not censure you for not believing – it is your prerogative.
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*What about the miracles?
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*What miracles are you refering to? As above –I am surprised you have never heard of these spectacular events as they have been documented and recorded.
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You cannot dismiss Mother Mary out of hand like that. Many Protestants love her also and say the rosary.
*I do not know of anyone who believes that Jesus is the only way and yet waist(waste?) their time praying to a dead person. What dead person??? Catholics are taught that Mary didn’t die, but that is not found in scripture. If she was still alive, God’s word would give some indication if it mattered. Oh I see you do not believe that Jesus died for the forgiveness of sins and to earn our salvation, in the Resurrection, in Eternal Life? It would not make sense for Jesus to go to all that trouble for dead people!!! *
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You do not do justice to yourself if you choose to ignore Mary!
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Mary was a Godly woman, according to scripture. She was chosen by God to do a wonderful work. She was married, had several children,That is your interpretation lived her life, then she died. God’s word tells us it is appointed unto men, once to die, then the judgement.
Do you think Mary existed before God? What a question – of course not! How then did she become the mother of God? *That is easily explained – are you genuinely interested? If so let me know and I shall tell you. *Jesus, the Son of God, was born of her, but He existed since before the foundations of the earth. correct Do you believe that Mary can somehow pull favors from God for you? *Yes * She doesn’t know you. Mary is so enthralled with the fact she is in the presence of God that you mean nothing. Oh? Your relationship with God is all that matters for your eternity, same as was Mary. She trusted in God alone to Save her and He was faithful to her, as far as we know. Nothing says she was somehow removed from this earth before her time and that is a false teaching. That is your interpretation and belief. I do not hate anyone who believes this lie, but only telling you that it is a lie
C
Cinette
Guest
HankZ
*If you have come to these forums to discuss, enquire, debate, learn what we believe, then I would be more than willing to answer your questions. If, on the other hand you have come on the forum to insult, accuse and ridicule then I have no desire to engage with you. I appreciate that our faith may seem strange and very different from what you have been exposed to and this is understandable. I respect you and I expect to be respected. There would be no problem in interacting with you if you are prepared to abide by these preconditions.
God bless you
Cinette *
*If you have come to these forums to discuss, enquire, debate, learn what we believe, then I would be more than willing to answer your questions. If, on the other hand you have come on the forum to insult, accuse and ridicule then I have no desire to engage with you. I appreciate that our faith may seem strange and very different from what you have been exposed to and this is understandable. I respect you and I expect to be respected. There would be no problem in interacting with you if you are prepared to abide by these preconditions.
God bless you
Cinette
*- Status