The Catholic Church: Truly the most universal?

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Thomas48

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When I think of the true Church of Christ ( I hope this doesnt make me less of a Catholic for having this theory), but I believe both the Catholic and Orthodox Church have rights to this claim. They both are of apostolic origin and follow the most authentic or close to most authentic customs of the early Church (sorry Protestants, I just dont see this in your communions).

But when I think of a Church being most universal, in my opinion that can only be the Catholic Church. My reasoning being, who else can celebrate eight ancient liturgical rites spanning of twenty three churches spread across the globe? None but the Catholic Church, what makes the Catholic Church so universal is truly the Eastern Catholic Churches. What comprises of the Catholic Church, is one Latin Church and twenty two Easten Churches, when it breaths through both its lungs, we become truly the most universal Church of Christ.

If you are a Cathlic you are the only person in this world who can experience the customs of Eastern Orthodoxy, Latin Catholicsm, Oriental Orthodoxy, and The Church of the East, all put in one. The Big Four are within hands reach to come across and encounter. Don’t get me wrong the Orthodox have their own sense of universality as well but I don’t see any other who can match the Catholic Church in this aspect. The union of these twenty three particular churches under the Bishop of Rome, exerts the most ubiquitous organization of Christianity.
 
The Roman Catholic Church is the most universal by numbers and geographic spread, yes, but not by doctrine. Ask the Melkites - “Orthodox in communion with Rome” - each time they reject the Roman doctrines papal infallibility, purgatory, original sin, etc. for the Orthodox understandings of each, and say, “We can be Catholics while believing these things, even though the Pope says we can not”.

The Roman church (inclusive of the 23 sui iuris churches) has a higher degree of superficial unity (ranging from SSPX and FSSP to Nancy Pelosi, Schillebeeckx, Hans Kung, and the evolutionist heretic Teilhard de Chardin) but a lesser degree of deeper unity. The Orthodox church has a lesser degree of superficial unity, but a greater degree of (yet not absolute, nor even close to absolute) deeper unity based on the Seven Oecumenical Councils and the interpretations of the Fathers.

I’ll leave the Protestants out because there’s no way to handle the even the unities and diversities of a blanket term for groups as diverse as Independent Fundamental Baptists and Liberal Episcopalians in a single forum post.

The only conclusion that can be drawn is that Christ’s prayer, “that they may be one as the Father and I are one…glorify them with the glory I had with thee before the foundation of the world”, awaits the parousia to be fulfilled.
 
Khalid said:
I’ll leave the Protestants out because there’s no way to handle the even the unities and diversities of a blanket term for groups as diverse as Independent Fundamental Baptists and Liberal Episcopalians in a single forum post.
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The term Protestant is almost meaningless these days, considering everything that gets lumped under that label.
 
You say tomato I say tomato. I know it is not as simplistic as this, however wherever a church is in unity with Rome, no matter its liturgy I as a Catholic can receive the sacraments. For this I give praise for unity in diversity. Just like the acceptance of the Common Book of Prayer within the new Anglican church offering good men a chance to worship validly in their own tongue. It is like the early church preaching in every listeners’ tongue after the descent of the Holy Spirit. Glorious!
 
I think the reality is that Catholic and Orthodox churches are collectively the universal Church, which remains in schism. The Church is universal because Christ personally established it as the single worldly instrument of salvation for all men. You can’t go elsewhere, and there are not more than one alternatives for men, depending upon circumstances. The Church is the way out of death and hell for each of us.

Maybe I am wrong. I can accept that, if so. But I don’t think it makes since to use the word universal in the sense of demographics. It means universal in that it applies to all mankind.
 
Thomas, I would say that the important thing is this: we no longer follow the “expansionist” (or whatever you want to call it) approach of the past.

Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that we no longer compete with the Orthodox. Say, for example, that Anglicans (either as individuals or as churches) are considering joining Catholicism or Orthodoxy, but are unsure which to join; then I would say that there’s nothing wrong with presenting them with reasons why they should choose Catholicism. So, yes there is still competition between Catholicism and Orthodoxy, but it is toned down from how it was before Vatican II.
 
Thomas,

I agree with what you say, in that the Catholicity of the Church is represented in the full Communion of East and West. This is why I am so hurt and offended when our own Eastern Catholic bishops keep latinizations and other non-Traditional practices like “first Communion”, latin hosts, public Rosaries and Stations while skipping Morning/Evening prayers, using the Latin Marriage Rites, and other practices which dilute the Catholicity and practices of the East - this is destroying the Catholic-ness of the Church from within, whether intentional or not. By forcing the Easterners to absorb Latin practices and no longer practice their true Eastern ones, the entire Church is harmed.
 
SyroMalankara said:
Thomas,

I agree with what you say, in that the Catholicity of the Church is represented in the full Communion of East and West. This is why I am so hurt and offended when our own Eastern Catholic bishops keep latinizations and other non-Traditional practices like “first Communion”, latin hosts, public Rosaries and Stations while skipping Morning/Evening prayers, using the Latin Marriage Rites, and other practices which dilute the Catholicity and practices of the East - this is destroying the Catholic-ness of the Church from within, whether intentional or not. By forcing the Easterners to absorb Latin practices and no longer practice their true Eastern ones, the entire Church is harmed.
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The real issue, I think, is that, beyond the imposition of the CCEO and the very existence of the Oriental Congregation, very few latinizations have been forced. I wish it were otherwise. The problem is internal to the Oriental Churches (and to a somewhat lesser extent, the Byzantines) themselves. They apparently will do anything they can to make themselves appear closer to Rome, in some cases going so far as to voluntarily and willfully embrace Novus Ordo-inspired neo-latinization with gleeful gusto. :mad: I would say “what’s the point?” but I’m not so sure I even care that much these days to waste my breath. It’s a losing battle.
 
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