The Catholic Church Wrote the Bible?

[Tantum_ergo]

I have read it more than once on these forums, that the Catholic Church wrote the Bible. I disagree.

The Old Testament is over 75% of the Bible and it existed before the Church. Lets get that out of the way.

The Holy Spirit did not inspire the Church to write the books of the New Testament but inspired individuals to write. These individuals were surely members of that same Church but the Church herself did receive inspiration from the Holy Spirit to write Scripture. James, Jude, John, Matthew, Mark, Luke, Paul, Peter (and I believe Apollos but that’s for another thread) were all individuals. They may have written on behalf of the Church or written to the Church as their audience but I don’t think it possible to claim that their inspired writings are the work of the Church. The best we can say is that the Catholic Church determined the canon of Scripture.

Maybe it’s semantics but I actually think that it makes us look silly when we say that the Church wrote the Bible.

-Tim-

Well, I’ll go part way on that. Certainly the Church determined the canon of Scripture. And certainly the New Testament writers were Catholic though born Jewish. So the Catholic Church had more to do with the contents of Scripture than simply determining canon.

And while the OT writers were Jewish, one could argue that since Christ (also a Jewish person) was the Messiah of whom they wrote, and that basically the OT was about Him (prefiguring Him) or about the interaction of the Jewish people and the Father (who is, as the First Person of the Trinity, as much God as Jesus is God), that the OT is also not simply Jewish, but "Catholic’ in content. If it is revealed truth about God (and Scripture is that), it cannot HELP but be Catholic in content.

 

[Mystophilus]

Maybe it’s semantics but I actually think that it makes us look silly when we say that the Church wrote the Bible.

The Church did write the Bible, but that Church is the “one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church” from whom all others are descended, and not only Sancta Catholica Apostolica Romana Ecclesia.

It falls into the same sort of category as someone earnestly telling you that their city or country is the greatest in the world. It does not impress, but it is hardly unforgivable.

 

[jmcrae]

I have read it more than once on these forums, that the Catholic Church wrote the Bible. I disagree.

The Old Testament is over 75% of the Bible and it existed before the Church. Lets get that out of the way.

The Church began with Adam and Eve. When we speak of “the Church” we are talking about those who have been faithful to God’s Covenant in all times and in all places.

The Roman Catholic Church is the outward expression of that Covenant today.

The Holy Spirit did not inspire the Church to write the books of the New Testament but inspired individuals to write. These individuals were surely members of that same Church but the Church herself did receive inspiration from the Holy Spirit to write Scripture. James, Jude, John, Matthew, Mark, Luke, Paul, Peter (and I believe Apollos but that’s for another thread) were all individuals. They may have written on behalf of the Church or written to the Church as their audience but I don’t think it possible to claim that their inspired writings are the work of the Church. The best we can say is that the Catholic Church determined the canon of Scripture.

Whatever God’s covenant is, and whatever its particular outward expression at any particular moment in history, it is never individualistic. The writers of the books of the Bible were not engaging in self-expression. They were authorities of the Church, writing on behalf of the Church, and for the Church.

 

[edwest2]

I have read it more than once on these forums, that the Catholic Church wrote the Bible. I disagree.

The Old Testament is over 75% of the Bible and it existed before the Church. Lets get that out of the way.

The Holy Spirit did not inspire the Church to write the books of the New Testament but inspired individuals to write. These individuals were surely members of that same Church but the Church herself did receive inspiration from the Holy Spirit to write Scripture. James, Jude, John, Matthew, Mark, Luke, Paul, Peter (and I believe Apollos but that’s for another thread) were all individuals. They may have written on behalf of the Church or written to the Church as their audience but I don’t think it possible to claim that their inspired writings are the work of the Church. The best we can say is that the Catholic Church determined the canon of Scripture.

Maybe it’s semantics but I actually think that it makes us look silly when we say that the Church wrote the Bible.

-Tim-

The Catholic Church selected which books would go into the Bible under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, many centuries ago.

Peace,
Ed

 

[TimothyH]

**The Church began with Adam and Eve. When we speak of “the Church” we are talking about those who have been faithful to God’s Covenant in all times and in all places. **

The Roman Catholic Church is the outward expression of that Covenant today.

Whatever God’s covenant is, and whatever its particular outward expression at any particular moment in history, it is never individualistic. The writers of the books of the Bible were not engaging in self-expression. They were authorities of the Church, writing on behalf of the Church, and for the Church.

That’s not what we are discussing.

We are talking about the Catholic Church which was born sacramentally when blood and water flowed from the side of Christ on the Cross and which became visible with Peter at its head on the day of Pentecost. Some say that the Bible was written by this one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church - that is what we are discussing.

And though it is really off topic, I totally disagree that the Catholic Church is simply an expression of God’s covenant. The Church rather, is God’s legitimate authority on earth, designed, established and ordained by God to be such. The Church is a kingdom, not an expression of a covenant. I never heard that before.

-Tim-

 

[TimothyH]

The Church did write the Bible, but that Church is the “one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church” from whom all others are descended, and not only Sancta Catholica Apostolica Romana Ecclesia.

It falls into the same sort of category as someone earnestly telling you that their city or country is the greatest in the world. It does not impress, but it is hardly unforgivable.

Except that over 75% of the Bible is the Old Testament and it existed before the one, holy, catholic and apostolic church.

I don’t think you read the first post.

-Tim-

 

[SyroMalankara]

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19651118_dei-verbum_en.html

1. Easy access to Sacred Scripture should be provided for all the Christian faithful. That is why the Church from the very beginning accepted as her own that very ancient Greek translation of the Old Testament which is called the septuagint; and she has always given a place of honor to other Eastern translations and Latin ones especially the Latin translation known as the vulgate. But since the word of God should be accessible at all times, the Church by her authority and with maternal concern sees to it that suitable and correct translations are made into different languages, especially from the original texts of the sacred books. And should the opportunity arise and the Church authorities approve, if these translations are produced in cooperation with the separated brethren as well, all Christians will be able to use them.

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s1c2a3.htm

God is the author of Sacred Scripture, God also created the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

I think you meant to write “is its servant.” The Church is the servant of Scripture, not the other way around.

-Tim-

Any other thoughts other than the grammar lesson?

 

[FCEGM]

. . . The Church is a kingdom, not an expression of a covenant. I never heard that before.

This article may prove helpful, then:

catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=7878

 

[ProVobis]

James, I don’t see how it follows that because the authors were Catholic, and even Catholic leaders, that the Church wrote the books of the New Testament.

I don’t think it can be rightly said, nor have I ever read where the Church herself makes that claim. Rather the Church herself has said that the Holy Spirit inspired “Men” to write and that the Church received the books.

I’d like to see where the Church has said anything like that.

Now I understand where you’re coming from. I was confused there for awhile.

Seems like a semantics thing to me. What else would you call the early scriptural scholars (or the liturgists or doctrinists for that matter) but the Catholic Church?

 

[bmonk]

That’s odd, I’ve never seen someone say that the Church “wrote” the Bible. Defined the canon, yes. Preserved it and passed it down for the ages, yes. But not “wrote.”

Yep! The Church collected the works and identified those that best expressed our experience of God and canonized them as inspired.

In a sense we did this for the Old Testament too–although much of the work of reaching consensus had already taken place. We simply took over the Greek translation, the Septuagint, with its “extra” books, while the Jews limited their version to the “Hebrew” texts (including Aramaic books).

So, we didn’t really “write” the Bible–but we certainly collected the New Testament, and canonized the whole in a definitive way.

 

[Mystophilus]

Except that over 75% of the Bible is the Old Testament and it existed before the one, holy, catholic and apostolic church.

If we want to become really pedantic, I could point out that I did write, “wrote”, and not, “authored”, but, if you require, I could emend my statement to “Members of the Church are believed to have authored the last twenty-seven books of the most commonly used canon of the primary texts of the Bible, and other members of the Church are believed to have compiled those twenty-seven and several dozen others into anthologies, and other members of the Church are believed to have translated those texts into various languages, except for the ones which are believed to have been translated by Jews or apostates, and other members of the Church are believed to have recopied the various texts and translations of the sets of texts”, although that still does leave out the issues of precisely who believes each of these things, why they believe them, and how well they understand them, in addition to being exhaustingly long.