The Catholic Church

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guanophore said:
I gather he has an unresolved resentment against the Catholic Church because he did not grasp the truth of the gospel until he “left” the faith.
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Mother Teresa certainly didn’t think everyone needed to become Roman Catholic. She didn’t even think they needed to become Christians! Time magazine ran the article on her where it was documented that she told many dying patients who were not Christian to simply look to their own god for strength. What do you think about that??
 
nbtb1348 said:
Mother Teresa certainly didn’t think everyone needed to become Roman Catholic.
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Neither do I. The Catholic Church is not “Roman”.
nbtb1348 said:
She didn’t even think they needed to become Christians!
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Well, I am sure she encouraged all that wished to do so, and I know she baptized all who asked and made a profession of faith. But, you are right, she ministered to them where they were, and knew that whatever they knew about God He would judge them according to their own conscience. She brought Jesus to them in deeds.
nbtb1348 said:
Time magazine ran the article on her where it was documented that she told many dying patients who were not Christian to simply look to their own god for strength. What do you think about that??
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I think she read understood the Apostolic Teaching that those who have not met Christ will be judged according to their own conscience. 👍

Rom 2:13-16
14 When Gentiles, who do not possess the law, do instinctively what the law requires, these, though not having the law, are a law to themselves. 15 They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, to which their own conscience also bears witness; and their conflicting thoughts will accuse or perhaps excuse them 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God, through Jesus Christ, will judge the secret thoughts of all.

She knew there was only One God, and that they may have known Him only in part. They will be judged according to the revelation they have.
 
nbtb1348 said:
Mother Teresa certainly didn’t think everyone needed to become Roman Catholic. She didn’t even think they needed to become Christians! Time magazine ran the article on her where it was documented that she told many dying patients who were not Christian to simply look to their own god for strength. What do you think about that??
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I think Mother Teresa did the right thing.

Imagine giving the person a course in apologetics while they are on their death bed? That would be unthinkable.:rolleyes: The important thing at that moment is that the person believes in God.

Mother Teresa didn’t believe in forcing her Faith on others. Her principal role was to care for the poorest of the poor. This doesn’t mean that she didn’t believe in evangelisation. She believed in living her Faith. She did what Jesus expects of all Christians - Mother Teresa LOVED, she fed the hungry, she clothed the naked, she took care of the sick, she built homes for the sick, the old, abandoned children.

She respected everybody and by practicing her Faith by her example she attracted many to the Faith and there were conversions. How about Malcolm Muggeridge who visited Mother Teresa to make a documentary of her work. He ended up converting.

Its funny, God does things in many different ways. If you look at conversion stories you will find that there are many different things that attract people to the Church. Sometimes it is a prayer, there was a famous atheist (Head of the Communist Party) who walked into a Catholic Church and immediately felt a presence. He was never the same again! One person found a medal of the Blessed Mother and this did something to her - she converted and has become an Apologist. The stories are varied. Who knows, a person could be drawn by a meal, a song, a book, looking at the sunset. You never know with the Holy Spirit.

Cheers
Cinette:)
 
nbtb1348 said:
Mother Teresa certainly didn’t think everyone needed to become Roman Catholic. She didn’t even think they needed to become Christians! Time magazine ran the article on her where it was documented that she told many dying patients who were not Christian to simply look to their own god for strength. What do you think about that??
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The glaring point you overlook is that SHE was Catholic!

Clearly, you have a different idea of what it means to be Catholic. We are not called to minister only to Christians, let alone, Catholics!

All creation belongs to God, and He, ALONE, decides what He decides. A Catholic recognises in ALL HUMANITY the image of Our Maker, and thus we treat / minister / aid…etc. all as brother and sister. Our Founder did it! We are called to do as He did, more than what He said, for we understand FULLY that Scriptures do not contain ALL He Said!

Mother Theresa is exemplary of Catholic faith and belief. To treat all, as one.

:cool:
 
nbtb1348 said:
Mother Teresa certainly didn’t think everyone needed to become Roman Catholic. She didn’t even think they needed to become Christians! Time magazine ran the article on her where it was documented that she told many dying patients who were not Christian to simply look to their own god for strength. What do you think about that??
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Yes, I know what you mean. I was slightly shocked by one scene in the recent movie about her life. (I don’t remember the exact statement that she made, but it was similar to what you’re talking about.)

I don’t know whether her view (whatever that may be exactly, I don’t want to jump to conclusions) is right or not. But when you really come down to it, if she was right, then good and well; if she wasn’t right, then well, the truth isn’t going to change just because Mother Theresa doesn’t agree with it. No sense losing sleep wondering what exactly she believed, and whether she was right or not.

BTW, that wasn’t her only controversial position: she also supported (as is her right) the proposal to dogmatically define Mary as co-redemptrix and the proposal to dogmatically define Mary as mediatrix.
 
Hey, Fellas …

It looks like some are basing our faith on Time magazine and a movie?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nbtb1348
Mother Teresa certainly didn’t think everyone needed to become Roman Catholic. She didn’t even think they needed to become Christians! Time magazine ran the article on her where it was documented that she told many dying patients who were not Christian to simply look to their own god for strength. What do you think about that??

Yes, I know what you mean. I was slightly shocked by one scene in the recent movie about her life. (I don’t remember the exact statement that she made, but it was similar to what you’re talking about.).

The issue before you is the Catholic Church - you know, the one, true church founded by Jesus Christ and why Protestants have a problem accepting the Word of God in this matter. There it is for the first 1500 after the birth of Christ - then revolt (not reform) and anarchy. I fail to see how anyone can boast of being unable to comprehend basic history - no faith needed for that. Do people actively debate that the Battle of Hastings (1066) preceeded Columbus finding the New World (1492)?

The question previously asked - and for some strange reason - ingnored was what religious denomination do you and nbtb claim? This is of interest because since you both boast about not being in the CC - just where do you fit in?

Will we need to wait for another movie to move forward? 🤷

God bless
 
Cinette said:
*Thank you for your response. I appreciate it. We Catholics receive the Holy Spirit at our Baptism when we are Baptised in the name of the Father, the Son and Holy Spirit (as so many other Christians). Again when we are Confirmed we evoke the Holy Spirit into our lives. I have done Life in the Spirit Seminars and have led and co-led. The infilling of the Spirit is indeed transforming and so I understand you saying that you were never the same again. In common language one could say that “it sticks”. I was never the same again and experienced many special graces and the transformation was permanent. You are right here. I know exactly what you are talking about. However, in the Catholic Church we have an added dimension.

For 1500 years Christians believed in the Real Presence. The Apostles did, those who were close to him, those who stepped into their shoes did. Despite Luther’s heresy he believed in the Real Presence. From Luther, Calvin, Zwingli’s break emanated the denominations, split after split after split. The Protestant churches are numerous – there is no unity. If they don’t agree on something they split and it goes on and on. Down the road from us is the “Family Church” and you have the Saddleback Church (I wondered about that name and then reached the conclusion that it could only be the name of a district or a town… These Churches are believers in the “symbolic” presence.
*
When you enter a Catholic Mass you bless yourself with Holy Water to remember your Baptism. You enter the Church and genuflect - that little red light near the tabernacle signifies that the Blessed Sacrament (Jesus) is there. You proceed to make the sign of the cross and greet Jesus. There is silence out of reverence as the people file into the Church for Mass. Then the Mass begins. After the Entrance Antifon the Priest opens his arms and greets the congregation “The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.” We respond “And also with you” and there are prayers followed by the Penitential Rite when we examine our consciences after the Priest says “My brothers and sisters to prepare ourselves to celebrate the sacred mysteries let us call to mind our sins”. After a pause and silence we say the “I confess…” the Kyrie follows - Lord have Mercy, Christ have Mercy… “May Almighty God have mercy on us, forgive us our sins and bring us to everlasting life”. Amen

Then we have the Gloria - often in song “Glory to God in the highest and peace to his people on earth” and I am sure the Angels and Saints in Heaven join us as we sing this beautiful prayer…

The Liturgy of the Word follows…On Sundays we have Two readings (OT and Epistle) with the chanting of the Psalm in between - the singing of the Psalm is to beautiful and moving also… After the 2nd reading we have the Alleluia which is also sung. The Gospel follows and then the Homily. The Homily is a commentary/teaching on the passages read and their connectedness (the Priest never chooses the theme - it is in the Lectionary and our Missals and the same the world over). After the Homily there is the Creed “I believe in One God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen…”

The Prayer of the Faithful follows and the Reader will call out all the intentions and we respond “Receive our prayer”…

Now follows the Liturgy of the Eucharist.“Pray brethen, that our sacrifice may be acceptable to God, the Almighty Father” says the priest and we respond Amen. We offer ourselves to God in the Offertary. There is the Preface and we all stand up and we pray “Holy, Holy, Holy God of Power and Might…”

Then there is the Eucharistic Prayer and the Consecration and then the Priest says: Let us proclaim the Mystery of Faith and we have several responses, one being:

“Lord, by your cross and resurrection you have set us free. You are the Saviour of the world”

We say the Our Father and then the Priest says the prayer of Peace and opening is arms he says “Peace be with you” We respond and then we offer peace to each other. Then comes “Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world, have mercy on us………”

The Rite of Communion follows and we receive the Body and Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ who died for our sins on the Cross (once and for all).

We return to our bench, kneel and offer thanks.

The Priest says the final prayer and gives us a Blessing and says “Go in Peace to Love and Serve the Lord!”.

Amen.
*This is our beautiful Mass which gives us light, love and grace.

I have great respect for Billy Graham as do many Catholics. In fact, we have respect and affection for many other Protestant leaders also. After all, are we not all Christians.

God bless you:) *
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Thank you for sharing that. It has been a very long time since I have been to a Mass. That was really helpful for me to get just a little of the flow of it.

Let me ask you this: When the priest says, .“Pray brethen, that our sacrifice may be acceptable to God, the Almighty Father”, what sacrifice is he talking about?
 
benedictus2 said:
And ended up not grasping anything at all.🙂
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Oh, but he did! He grasped that it was “empty” because he was empty, and that it was vain ritual. I understand this, because that is exactly what happened to me. I also believed that everyone I could see at Mass was just as “empty and vain” as I was. I had a lot of growing up to do. :o
 
nbtb1348 said:
Thank you for sharing that. It has been a very long time since I have been to a Mass. That was really helpful for me to get just a little of the flow of it.

Let me ask you this: When the priest says, .“Pray brethen, that our sacrifice may be acceptable to God, the Almighty Father”, what sacrifice is he talking about?
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This is a good question. Jesus made the once for all sacrifice of HImself, and the unblemished Lamb of God. At Divine Liturgy, we enter into and participate in this once for all sacrifice. We bring the bread and wine, made with human hands, and with it our whole being. We also bring our offerings (contributions). He takes our meager offerings and joins them to the perfect sacrifice of His Son, so that we can become present at the foot of the cross.
 
guanophore said:
This is a good question. Jesus made the once for all sacrifice of HImself, and the unblemished Lamb of God. At Divine Liturgy, we enter into and participate in this once for all sacrifice. We bring the bread and wine, made with human hands, and with it our whole being. We also bring our offerings (contributions). He takes our meager offerings and joins them to the perfect sacrifice of His Son, so that we can become present at the foot of the cross.
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When the wine is turned to blood, does that become a further offering of blood to save from sin’s penalty?
 
nbtb1348 said:
When the wine is turned to blood, does that become a further offering of blood to save from sin’s penalty?
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This is a very good question, and I thank you for posing it. Since Jesus shedding of blood was “once and for all” there is no need for any “further offering of blood to save”. In the celebration of the Divine Liturgy, we bring ourselves under the shed blood.

Remember that the Lord’s Supper is the fulfillment of the Passover. God only saved Israel from Egypt one time. However, He wanted each and every generation to experience the rememberance of this salvation so that they could make it present to themselves. The lamb that was slain was consumed according to a strict ritual. In consuming it, they made themselves partakers of God’s deliverance. When Christ says “do this in rememberance of me”, He is talking about the enacted ritual of the Passover. He Himself becomes the Lamb that was slain for our sins. As often as we eat the Body and Drink the Blood, we re-enact this once for all sacrifice.
 
guanophore said:
This is a very good question, and I thank you for posing it. Since Jesus shedding of blood was “once and for all” there is no need for any “further offering of blood to save”. In the celebration of the Divine Liturgy, we bring ourselves under the shed blood.

Remember that the Lord’s Supper is the fulfillment of the Passover. God only saved Israel from Egypt one time. However, He wanted each and every generation to experience the rememberance of this salvation so that they could make it present to themselves. The lamb that was slain was consumed according to a strict ritual. In consuming it, they made themselves partakers of God’s deliverance. When Christ says “do this in rememberance of me”, He is talking about the enacted ritual of the Passover. He Himself becomes the Lamb that was slain for our sins. As often as we eat the Body and Drink the Blood, we re-enact this once for all sacrifice.
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Mister, you’re getting sharper and sharper at clarifying Catholic matters!

Ah luv it! Uhm…not that my opinion matters, of course.

:cool:
 
Deconi said:
Mister, you’re getting sharper and sharper at clarifying Catholic matters!

Ah luv it! Uhm…not that my opinion matters, of course.

:cool:
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Luv it too! I was actually going to reply but I thought Guan would do a much better job at it.🙂
 
nbtb1348 said:
Thank you for sharing that. It has been a very long time since I have been to a Mass. That was really helpful for me to get just a little of the flow of it.

Let me ask you this: When the priest says, .“Pray brethen, that our sacrifice may be acceptable to God, the Almighty Father”, what sacrifice is he talking about?
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At the Offertory the Priest receives the gifts of the Christian community – bread, wine and the collection – we offer not only our support but ourselves as well.

“Take, Lord, and receive, all my liberty, my memory, my understanding, and my entire will, all that I have and possess. You have given all to me. To You, O Lord, I return it. All is Yours. Dispose of it wholly according to Your will. Give me your love and Your grace for this is sufficient for me.” (Prayer of St Ignatius)

Jesus offered his life for us once and for all and we, in turn, offer ourselves to Him.

Sometimes it is difficult for us to release ourselves to Him - to surrender ourselves to God. It is difficult and is something we should do daily. I believe that we are often scared to do so because we are afraid of being challenged by God. “To whom much is given, much is expected”. But we should not be afraid.
 
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