The Catholic "Issues"

[Verdanty]

Hello there!

I’m Verdanty, I’ve been lurking on this site here for almost a year after finding it after googling for questions. Excellent resource, but for once I thought I’d ask something I think this question may need a little bit of back story.

As my religion box indicates, I don’t identify with any religion. Being raised a Catholic within a fairly conservative circle until I stopped practicing around the age of eighteen I am aware the Catholic Church still considers me one, but personally? I don’t believe in the supernatural at all. I’m sure it would be very dramatic to have some tale about radical breaks and moments of revelation, but really me leaving was more a case of me going “What am I doing here?” and quietly leaving as I got older.

Fast forward in time a few years and I find myself back in a Catholic environment as a school teacher. I expected things to be more or less as they were when I was younger and at Catholic school myself. Certainly there were changes such as the language used in the mass etc, far more of a turn to ye olde english in many respects but something has struck me as somewhat…Unnerving to be perfectly honest.

There seems to be a really deep, I’d would actually go as far to describe it as hysterical at times, fear of the modern world. Now that shouldn’t be any great suprise, even on issues upon which the Church has no issues with I know it can take decades if not centuries to make up its mind about something. But this is…Something else entirely.

I’ll take the gay marriage issue because it’s the one I hear the most about, but it could just quite as easily apply to abortion and non-belief etc as well. The death/destruction/mutilation of marriage (take your pick of terminology) is regularly decried by the Religious education curricula as an awful sinful abomination that must be fought against at every possible opportunity, not unlike as I’ve learned Catholic news sources like Crisis magazine, Catholic Herald and the like as well.

I have to ask, why?

I know why the Catholic Church disprove of gay marriage, I think it’s probably one of the few things non-Catholics tend to know very well about the Church; about the sex scandals and that it doesn’t like contraception or those with same sex attraction doing the deed (not very flattering, but common knowledge). The older children in our establishment are commanded to sign petitions against it (or suffer detention or other privileges like time out for extra curricula clubs), the school and nearby church regularly pay host to politically flavored events against it, abortion or the like. I recently took over my post after my predecessor, a lesbian woman, was found to be living with a partner and was promptly sacked.

And yet, I find it curious. The Catholic Church today considers her to be an untouchable, and yet me; the apostate atheist who quite freely admitted to the principal both of those things and that I co-habit with my partner (they even asked was I planning to have children which while I’m pretty sure is illegal I was willing to answer in the negative)…I’m absolutely fine to teach Religious Instruction.

(TBC in next post)

 

[Verdanty]

There’s a very distinct double standard across the board really. I mean as far as Catholic teaching goes I’m going to hell just as much as she is but it has no objections to my existence on a political level and has (as of yet) professed no interest in firing me for having sex outside of marriage. Not merely on a personal level, I’ve read stories across the world about all sorts of campaigns against access to contraception, abortion and LGBT rights most recently and most loudly; but I’ve never heard it once support a campaign to abolish divorce or criminalize sex outside of marriage (unlike in blocking the UN resolution several years ago where it does support maintaining or introducing as was seen in Uganda criminalization of homosexual acts). Surely the Catholic Church would desire all sins to be crimes as many of the ones it could police in the days it had wider temporal power (such as when Salazar with support banned Protestant services in accordance with the Syllabus of Errors prohibitation of freedom of religion as the western world understands it) once were?

Has a line been crossed? What has inspired this outpouring of fury from the Catholic hierarchy in the past five-ten years and to bunker down in fear of the outside world? I find it baffling and quite bizarre, especially because of my employment. The parents/governers at my workplace are quite aware they have atheists, remarried divorcees etc teaching their children and that’s all quite okay according to the Church, but anyone who suggests gay marriage is nothing less than the coming of the end of days would be wise to invest in a bunker to hide in.

Has anyone a similar experience? Why are these issues so crucial, when there’s many more long lasting, widespread and problematic dogma wise such as divorce that barely inspire a batted eyelid anymore?; and depending on who you ask (such as Malta these days in the wake of Amoris Laetitia) aren’t even issues at all.

 

[BenjaminJ]

The Catholic Church doesn’t disapprove of gay marriage, it condems it. That comes directly from the bible, both in old testament and gospel.

 

[Verdanty]

I’m well aware of that. It also condemns the concept of women priests, modalist depictions of the trinity and divorce but when was the last time you saw a march against divorce lined up in the middle of a major city as we did several times during the build up to the American and Irish decisions on the matter of gay marriage? Surely the idea that a marriage can be temporary rather than eternal as Jesus stated is far more blasphemous? Why are none of the Synods of the different countries across the world working to abolish divorce?

Likewise, when was the last time you heard of an employee of a Catholic subsidiary or institute being sacked for having heterosexual sex? I can’t think of one, I can think of several examples in fact of people here who openly flout that rule and no action is ever taken.

 

[BenjaminJ]

Lack of people lining up really means nothing,

 

[Verdanty]

If that is the case, and lack of support is irrelevant why select gay marriage as the main issue rather than the far more grievous sins that secular western societies are indifferent to; such as freedom of religion or lack of one?

 

[BenjaminJ]

Action taken on this earth maybe not. Action taken by God at their end? You can count on it.

 

[BenjaminJ]

Homosexuality is a grevious sin.

 

[Verdanty]

Action taken by God? You mean an eternity in hell. If that’s the case why are the hierarchy not willing to wait for the homosexuals to suffer at the end of time as they are the divorcees who remarry? Surely they’re all in the Catholic view “have it coming” in the future regardless?

 

[Verdanty]

So is me being an apostate who co-habits, but the Catholic church is happy to employ me as opposed to a lesbian who does claim a Catholic identity. My case is hardly unique as I’m sure anyone with a child at a Catholic school knows.

 

[BenjaminJ]

You ain’t catholic are ya? Everyone deserves a chance at redemp.

 

[BenjaminJ]

Catholic Church would accept neither.

 

[Verdanty]

But…It does. Openly across the world in pretty much every sphere. You surely don’t think every nurse, teacher, doctor etc across the world in Catholic employ is a devout practicing Catholic? They’re not, and many of them are open about not being that and it is not an issue or a bar to employment or participation in their services. Being a sexually active homosexual however is.

 

[Wesrock]

Fornication and homosexual actions are both sins, but homosexual actions are the graver of the two. Either way, I do think a Catholic school should be more consistent. Turning a blind eye to an openly cohabitating, fornicating teacher while sacking a homosexual teacher is rather inconsistent.

As to political issues, society’s moved well past divorce and remarriage being an issue, regardless of what the Church teaches. Many groups are focusing on trying to oppose further slipping down the slope before trying to climb back up, if that metaphor makes sense, whether or not that’s the best strategy going forward is a different discussion.

 

[BenjaminJ]

Said much better than I ever could.

 

[Verdanty]

I think it is myself too, one that works in my benefit clearly but I was hoping someone here might have a better grasp of the mental gymnastics involved that might rationalize it in a way I might be missing.

I can see that and agree that divorce and remarriage is a lost cause for the forseeable future, but I would go a step further and say that contraception and gay marriage are too; after all when even devoutly Catholic states like Ireland are winning democratic majorities in favor it’s fairly indicative this is an issue the secular world has mostly made up its mind about; and yet it’s the one issue, with abortion an increasingly distant second, the Catholic Church fires up the propaganda machine so to speak to do battle against.

The Church has claimed before to be charged to speak out and rebuke all sin and error, and yet you yourself seem to acknowledge the Church has admitted defeat on the issue of divorce and remarriage and chalked it up as a lost cause.

 

[Wesrock]

I should add that the Church does not teach that every immoral action need be criminalized legally. But there’s a difference between criminalization and opposing making something a state supported institution.

 

[Verdanty]

Is civil secular marriage not a sinful state supported institution? I recall from history lessons the Church proclaiming anyone who obtained one in the Kingdom of Italy (and later participation in the government of) in and during the reunification era was guilty of mortal sin, as it did in other Catholic countries who introduced it. After all, it enables and supports remarriage.

 

[1ke]

And yet, I find it curious. The Catholic Church today considers her to be an untouchable, and yet me; the apostate atheist who quite freely admitted to the principal both of those things and that I co-habit with my partner (they even asked was I planning to have children which while I’m pretty sure is illegal I was willing to answer in the negative)…I’m absolutely fine to teach Religious Instruction.

This certainly IS a puzzle, because frankly no you aren’t “absolutely fin” to teach religion in a Catholic school. I am sure you are a fine educator, and it would be fine for you to teach English, Math, Science, etc, provided you agreed to uphold Church teaching on the topic and not contradict Church teaching by your words or actions.

Living with your significant other is not in keeping with Catholic teaching. Being an apostate and atheist is not keeping with Catholic teaching. And a self-proclaimed atheist should not be teaching religious studies at a Catholic school. I can’t imagine that you majored in theology, so I’m not sure why they would put you in that role.

It is, as you say, a real puzzle. I am sure you are a lovely person. But, no, not qualified to teach Catholic religion. And, quite rightly puzzled at the hypocrisy of the situation. It makes no sense at all. It makes even less sense that you would want to work there.

The parents/governers at my workplace are quite aware they have atheists, remarried divorcees etc teaching their children and that’s all quite okay according to the Church

Actually it isn’t, if you read the Church’s documents on the subject.

 

[Wesrock]

I think it is myself too, one that works in my benefit clearly but I was hoping someone here might have a better grasp of the mental gymnastics involved that might rationalize it in a way I might be missing.

Perhaps the school shouldn’t be turning a blind eye, but perhaps they feel that the prior teacher risked giving a more open scandal to the students than you do. I’m going to hold up my hands here and say I don’t know everything, whether you’re going about telling students your personal lifestyle, or what the other teacher may have said or done. It may very well be an inconsistent approach made by the school. Maybe it is they are themselves playing in the politicalization rather than conforming to Catholic moral teaching.

I can see that and agree that divorce and remarriage is a lost cause for the forseeable future, but I would go a step further and say that contraception and gay marriage are too; after all when even devoutly Catholic states like Ireland are winning democratic majorities in favor it’s fairly indicative this is an issue the secular world has mostly made up its mind about; and yet it’s the one issue, with abortion an increasingly distant second, the Catholic Church fires up the propaganda machine so to speak to do battle against.

The contraception issue in today’s society, at least in America, isn’t about criminalizing the sale of contraception (which is a dead issue), but about whether Catholic institutions should be required to provide access to it, which is a relevant and new political topic for our time.

However, even from a political level, not all things are equal. Divorce and remarriage is of course grave by the Catholic Church’s standards, but gay marriage is considered a much more blatant and worse perversion of human morality, and even above that is abortion. So in addition to whether some issues are dead and done with from a cultural aspect (for the time being), there are other factors which need to be given weight. And, in America at least, the anti-abortion crowd is in the minority, but it’s been a fairly consistent minority, for the most part, and not a tiny one. And the same-sex marriage issue is still very recent, and there’s additional fall out regarding what degree of liberty religious freedoms give business owners or workers faced with these issues.