The Catholic "Issues"

[1ke]

Is civil secular marriage not a sinful state supported institution?

No, marriage is a natural institution and people have a natural right to marriage.

The Church has authority to regulate the marriages of its members, hence canons related to the form of marriage and various decrees in various ages regarding the relationship of the sacrament of marriage to the civil laws of the age.

 

[1ke]

But…It does. Openly across the world in pretty much every sphere. You surely don’t think every nurse, teacher, doctor etc across the world in Catholic employ is a devout practicing Catholic? They’re not, and many of them are open about not being that and it is not an issue or a bar to employment or participation in their services. Being a sexually active homosexual however is.

The Church doesn’t teach that they must be.

However, the Church does in fact have something to say about those who are charged in the name of the Church with teaching the faith and representing the Church in an official capacity such as religion teacher.

 

[Verdanty]

Im a religious studies graduate. Whereas Theology is the study of religion accepting the claims of a specific religion are true Religious Studies works on the premise they are false and takes an anthropological/sociological/psychological mixedapproach to attempting to explain why people still do it anyway. It means I know quite a good deal about the doctrines and history of Christianity (my specialism) I studied it among others as a phenomenon rather than an actual divine revelation. It makes me adequatley equipped in the view of my employer to teach Theology, after all I had to learn about Scholasticism/Thomist philosophy etc, I merely don’t agree with it. You don’t need to be a Muslim to read the Qu’ran after all do you?

As for why I work there? I need money and it’s close. Do you need to agree with the philosophy of McDonalds to serve a Big Mac? I see no difference in serving a pre-prepared speculation either.

(I will respond to the other posts, though it is taking a while on this device typing!)

 

[Wesrock]

Secular marriage is a complex topic throughout the Church’s history, and without knowing much about what happened in Italy, I suspect much more was going on than meets the eye, provided what you say is true. Nothing’s inherently sinful about secular marriage. Catholics are required to be married in the Church for validity (note, this does not mean marriage through the state is per se immoral, some countries divide this into two processes, and that’s fine), but non-Catholic Christians, non-Christians, etc… are perfectly fine getting secular marriages outside the Church. There’s nothing illicit or immoral about it (provided it’s otherwise valid (example: first marriage, man and woman, etc…).

 

[1ke]

Im a religious studies graduate.

Which really isn’t a qualification to teach Catholic religion in a Catholic school. To do so, you should have a credential in Catholic theology.

It means I know quite a good deal about the doctrines and history of Christianity (my specialism) I studied it among others as a phenomenon rather than an actual divine revelation

Which again, isn’t an endorsement to teach Catholic religion at a Catholic school.

It makes me adequatley equipped in the view of my employer to teach Theology, after all I had to learn about Scholasticism/Thomist philosophy etc, I merely don’t agree with it.

Which is a scathing rebuke against your employer, not you.

You don’t need to be a Muslim to read the Qu’ran after all do you?

To read it, no. To teach it in a Muslim school, you better believe it.

Do you need to agree with the philosophy of McDonalds to serve a Big Mac?

McDonald’s in not a religion, and yes you do need to agree with and embrace Catholic teaching and living to appropriately and authentically impart it to Catholic children. Children can smell duplicity a mile a way. “I don’t really believe this cr*p, I just teach it.” No, no, a thousand times no.

 

[Verdanty]

I’m not sure how you’re getting quote bubbles so forgive me, I’ll have to respond to the breakdown with numbers.

1. I have the CCRS, which is a Catholic endorsement to teach Catholic Religious instruction at all Catholic institutions here. It’s freely available to all non-Catholics (although assumes you have some post-graduate grounding in Theology), and is not required to teach in Catholic schools here. It’s seen as an official stamp that you do understand Catholic doctrine very well and is the main qualification for being an Religious Studies subject co-ordinator, Deputy or Principal. It is preferred that a Catholic be hired for those posts but not unheard of for non-Catholics to be when a suitable Catholic candidate cannot be found or isn’t as qualified as a non-Catholic counterpart. For instance I am more senior over my Catholic colleagues in this area because I hold the CCRS wheras they do not.
2. I think it says much about a double standard certainly.
3. I have actually taught in a Muslim school prior to this covering a years maternity leave. Not something I care to repeat but I taught Islamic Studies without ever being questioned about it. I also hold the corresponding Islamic certification to teach that as well, something not required but desired for leaders.
4. Not all my students do, in fact most actually are suprised to learn I’m not Catholic when I explain why I never approach for communion or join them waiting for confession when it is made available. I also make myself absent from mass whenever possible. I don’t exactly wave a banner saying “I’m not Catholic” but I hardly make it a secret either. Somehow I still manage to get the point across and they don’t often pick up.

 

[1ke]

I’m not sure how you’re getting quote bubbles so forgive me, I’ll have to respond to the breakdown with numbers.

just highlight the text you want to quote and a little “quote” pop up appears, click it and it inserts the quote.

At any rate, I am not sure where you are located, US or elsewhere. But, it is really quite odd that a Muslim school would not have an issue with you teaching Islamic Studies.

At any rate, yes it’s hypocritical of the Catholic school to boot a lesbian and hire a heterosexual cohabiter, and a non-religious person teaching religion class is quite problematic. I don’t get it. I don’t doubt your puzzlement at this, because it is quite puzzling indeed.

 

[Verdanty]

(Forgive me, my post limit per day kicked in before I was allowed to respond)

The short version was that the Church was sore about losing temporal power and the Papal States to Italy (on the basis of the now discovered to be fraudulent Donation of Constantine), so in response it proclaimed participation in the Italian government to be mortal sin all the way up until the Lateran Treaty where it agreed the Italian government was legitimate and allowed full participation of Catholics in it (not that it really ever made much impact in truth). It was for several decades even sinful for couples married in the church to obtain legal recognition of their marriages, although again in practice it stopped few from doing so.

But the church has elsewhere fought against civil marriage such as in Ireland on the grounds that only it had the right to control this area, on the grounds it somehow demeaned or made irrelevant Christian teaching on marriage which it did. I mean after all, the Church says you cannot be married if impotent or previously married while your spouse is alive but the state says you can? If that’s not a direct attack on Catholic teaching on marriage then what is?

 

[Verdanty]

just highlight the text you want to quote and a little “quote” pop up appears, click it and it inserts the quote.

Much appreciated, thank you

At any rate, I am not sure where you are located, US or elsewhere. But, it is really quite odd that a Muslim school would not have an issue with you teaching Islamic Studies.

The UK in my case, and not really. Muslim schools as all faith schools come in varying degrees of intensity, some are as claimed radical madrassas, the others are rather less so. If anything that being an all girls school myself being a female in a male dominated field made me a very appealing candidate. I suffered no stigma of being a woman attempting to preach, since it was self evident I wasn’t preaching as an imam so not conflicting with the role of worship leader being the sole preserve of men, but at the same time I was well versed in their beliefs.

Were I a man I doubt they would have hired me, but for similar reasons Catholic schools here favor male chaplains over female ones in schools and prisons.

At any rate, yes it’s hypocritical of the Catholic school to boot a lesbian and hire a heterosexual cohabiter, and a non-religious person teaching religion class is quite problematic. I don’t get it. I don’t doubt your puzzlement at this, because it is quite puzzling indeed.

It is puzzling I agree, but not really very unusual; either here, in Ireland, the US, Canada…In fact it’s really the norm from my traveling experience having taught in several countries. I wondered if there was a reason I was missing, because it tends to just come across as just…Odd.

I can name the number of times the priests and apologists I’ve encountered have complained about the other two sins that “cry to heaven for vengeance” on a single hand (i.e: never). But the “death culture of homosexuality” gets a slot on every outlet they have (Crisis, Herald, ETWN, LifeSiteNews etc) on a near enough daily basis.