The Catholic League And Protestants

[RobHom]

And similarly, one does not have to “disagree 110%” to see an organization as being generally an embarrassment. I certainly agree that many of the things the League objects to are genuinely offensive. It’s just that they have a pattern of excessive, cynical, and sometimes downright irrational exploitation of the canons of political correctness in order to silence any criticism or unfavorable portrayal of Catholicism. Similar organizations speaking for other religious groups do the same thing–I don’t think the Catholic League is necessarily worse, but it happens to be the one under discussion here.

So then you object to them doing what works best, like everyone else? I guess then the method that they used to accomplish this is wrong. Getting this person to “apologize” is bloody near miraculous… catholicleague.org/release.php?id=1436

Do you have a problem with them issuing strident complaints about this issue, not that I am sure how they handled it… catholicleague.org/release.php?id=1350

How about this issue?
catholicleague.org/release.php?id=1329

I would suggest that you have a thoroughly worldly and un-Christian understanding of what it means to “defend the faith” and to “stand up and be counted.” I do not think that we are called to defend the faith by reacting touchily to any negative comment or portrayal. We are called to defend the faith by proclaiming the truth and attacking error and evil of whatever kind. And we should be particularly sensitive to error and evil within our own ranks, and particularly tolerant of attacks that touch us personally or the group we represent. That is the Christian way of defending the Faith.

Edwin

Edwin, you have it partly right… I am rather worldly…having lived on three continents both as an adult and later the same three continents as an adult. I do not have an un-Christian attitude or understanding of what it means to defend the faith. But I find it somewhat quizzical that you do not identify yourself as belonging to any religion in your profile…and only list in a signature area that you are “affiliation” is Episcopalian. You go on to state that we are called to defend the faith by proclaiming the truth and attacking evil of whatever kind… then you go on to say in the next breath… and particularly tolerant of attacks that touch us personally or the group we represent.

Which do you do? Proclaim the truth and attack evil of whatever kind, or sit on your hands and tolerate attacks on your person or your Church? You have to choose. You can’t do both. Think about it.

Sorry, I disagree with you. The Catholic League may not be perfect…but then again, they do serve a purpose, and if they are able to get someone like Hagee to apologize for his asinine and hateful comments, then they are doing something right!

 

[ralphinal]

Don’t forget that there were other pressures on Hagee to backtrack on those statements, but the CL was a driving force behind those, too.

Let me restate this one more time.

I have no issue with attacking evil and showing it for what it is.

I have no issue with defending the faith.

I have no issue with the stated role of the Catholic League.

I have no issue with most of what they have done.

I do have an issue with anyone using the name of my faith to justify hatred of any sort. This includes being anti-protestant or just plain rude.

I suggest that you all read the Grunt Padre, a book about a naval chaplin who died in Viet Nam. He had a situation that he handled in a most Christ-like way.

 

[churchcamefirst]

So then you object to them doing what works best, like everyone else? I guess then the method that they used to accomplish this is wrong. Getting this person to “apologize” is bloody near miraculous… catholicleague.org/release.php?id=1436

Do you have a problem with them issuing strident complaints about this issue, not that I am sure how they handled it… catholicleague.org/release.php?id=1350

How about this issue?
catholicleague.org/release.php?id=1329

Edwin, you have it partly right… I am rather worldly…having lived on three continents both as an adult and later the same three continents as an adult. I do not have an un-Christian attitude or understanding of what it means to defend the faith. But I find it somewhat quizzical that you do not identify yourself as belonging to any religion in your profile…and only list in a signature area that you are “affiliation” is Episcopalian. You go on to state that we are called to defend the faith by proclaiming the truth and attacking evil of whatever kind… then you go on to say in the next breath… and particularly tolerant of attacks that touch us personally or the group we represent.

Which do you do? Proclaim the truth and attack evil of whatever kind, or sit on your hands and tolerate attacks on your person or your Church? You have to choose. You can’t do both. Think about it.

Sorry, I disagree with you. The Catholic League may not be perfect…but then again, they do serve a purpose, and if they are able to get someone like Hagee to apologize for his asinine and hateful comments, then they are doing something right!

Thank you Rob, at least we have someone who defends the faith here instead of bashing the organization which does so much for Catholics in their defense.

 

[churchcamefirst]

Don’t forget that there were other pressures on Hagee to backtrack on those statements, but the CL was a driving force behind those, too.

Let me restate this one more time.

I have no issue with attacking evil and showing it for what it is.

I have no issue with defending the faith.

I have no issue with the stated role of the Catholic League.

I have no issue with most of what they have done.

I do have an issue with anyone using the name of my faith to justify hatred of any sort. This includes being anti-protestant or just plain rude.

I suggest that you all read the Grunt Padre, a book about a naval chaplin who died in Viet Nam. He had a situation that he handled in a most Christ-like way.

Raphinal, read Rob’s post above. The CL is NOT a hateful organization and it is not anti-Protestant. www.catholicleague.com you really need to do your research before complaining.

 

[churchcamefirst]

You’re so abrasive you don’t even see your own poor wording. You would have us believe that the Catholic Leagues stamps out people! I was trying to point out that what you were saying was contrary to the ethics and goals of the Catholic League.

Good grief, yourself.

Quit lumping all non-Catholics together. And BTW… non-Catholic ≠ anti-Catholic.

Good grief… squared. :tsktsk:

I noticed your religion states Methodist. We are having two Methodists converting to Catholicism at my church come this Easter. They are receiving RCIA studies and are converting. I had a chance to speak to one and he told me his research and his guidance from the Holy Spirit brought him to the one true church. He said that everything he read and studied about the Catholic church sure enough is the church Jesus founded.
Praise be to God.

 

[O.S.Luke]

I noticed your religion states Methodist. We are having two Methodists converting to Catholicism at my church come this Easter. They are receiving RCIA studies and are converting. I had a chance to speak to one and he told me his research and his guidance from the Holy Spirit brought him to the one true church. He said that everything he read and studied about the Catholic church sure enough is the church Jesus founded.
Praise be to God.

I’m happy for anyone who has peace in their faith. And I have a lot of respect for Catholicism.

What’s your point? Just more arrogance and church oneupmanship? Aren’t Christians supposed to be on the same side?

You’ve got problems, Churchcamefirst. Serious problems. I’m praying for you.

 

[ralphinal]

Raphinal, read Rob’s post above. The CL is NOT a hateful organization and it is not anti-Protestant. www.catholicleague.com you really need to do your research before complaining.

I know that they are not anti-Protestant. There are Catholics who are and prouf of their hatred. I know that they are not hateful, but there are Catholics who are in the name of the Church. What they tend to be is rude and confrontational, and not in a good way. You cannot tell me that it serves God’s purpose to be on TV and instead of talking you shout out the other person, making the evil look like the victom.

 

[churchcamefirst]

I know that they are not anti-Protestant. There are Catholics who are and prouf of their hatred. I know that they are not hateful, but there are Catholics who are in the name of the Church. What they tend to be is rude and confrontational, and not in a good way. You cannot tell me that it serves God’s purpose to be on TV and instead of talking you shout out the other person, making the evil look like the victom.

Oh please…

 

[Contarini]

So then you object to them doing what works best, like everyone else?

Of course I do. I would have thought that any Christian would. This is what I meant by calling your approach “worldly”–you seem to take it for granted that Christians should act according to the world’s principles of power. Yet these are the principles that Jesus defeated on the Cross. He broke their hold over us. We don’t have to be slaves to the dark forces that make “everyone else” do whatever will gain them more power. And it’s very distressing to see Christians voluntarily put their necks under the yoke of those dark powers once again.

I guess then the method that they used to accomplish this is wrong. Getting this person to “apologize” is bloody near miraculous… catholicleague.org/release.php?id=1436

Are you serious? Hagee was a serious embarrassment for John McCain. There were all sorts of political pressures on him. No miracle at all.

Do you have a problem with them issuing strident complaints about this issue, not that I am sure how they handled it… catholicleague.org/release.php?id=1350

How about this issue?
catholicleague.org/release.php?id=1329

Of course I don’t have a problem with them condemning vulgarity and nastiness. But note the language: Catholics are “insulted” and “offended.” This isn’t moral language. It’s PC language. Instead of trying to establish a standard that will preserve decency and courtesy in all of our communications within civil society, they raise a wholly subjective standard–whatever a given group chooses to decide to be “offended” by. This is just going along with one of the most destructive trends in our culture.

But I find it somewhat quizzical that you do not identify yourself as belonging to any religion in your profile…and only list in a signature area that you are “affiliation” is Episcopalian.

I find it somewhat “quizzical” that you think this is relevant–although I probably shouldn’t. After all, if you have some reason to think this low tactic will “work,” by your own principles you’re going to try it, aren’t you?

I state my affiliation in my signature for the obvious reason that this is the most prominent place to display it. Why you think this is somehow more underhanded than tucking it away iny profile where people have to go look for it I have no idea. I am not particularly interested in giving out biographical information on the Internet. I’m here to discuss ideas–there are other places to share personal information. But people have the right to know where I’m coming from. That’s why I put this in every post. I have now edited my profile, since my failure to do so bothers you so much. (One problem is that the profile asks for my “religion,” which is certainly not Episcopalian but Christian. Episcopalianism is not a religion but one relatively small denomination within Christianity.)

You go on to state that we are called to defend the faith by proclaiming the truth and attacking evil of whatever kind… then you go on to say in the next breath… and particularly tolerant of attacks that touch us personally or the group we represent.

Which do you do? Proclaim the truth and attack evil of whatever kind, or sit on your hands and tolerate attacks on your person or your Church? You have to choose. You can’t do both. Think about it.

It’s precisely because I had thought about it that I said what I did. We should attack evil because it is evil, not because our group is “offended” by it. Therefore, we should be particularly vigilant against evil within our own ranks, and particularly tolerant of evil outside them. The very rationale of a group like the Catholic League militates against this basic moral and spiritual principle.

Edwin

 

[ralphinal]

Oh please…

Have you SEEN them interviewed? I have. More than once. The last time it was on Fox News, and the reporter was agreeing with them. They still turned it into a shouting match and made the “poor little opressed” homosexual seem like the victom.

 

[churchcamefirst]

Have you SEEN them interviewed? I have. More than once. The last time it was on Fox News, and the reporter was agreeing with them. They still turned it into a shouting match and made the “poor little opressed” homosexual seem like the victom.

I beg to differ. When Madonna hung herself on the Cross, mocking Jesus, Mr. Donahue and thousands of people protested. When others defame Christ, it is brought to their attention and they are embarrassed. In all my years knowing the Catholic League, I NEVER EVER once saw this. I never ever saw the mistreatment of gays by this League. That is offensive and in poor taste Mr. Raphinal, and I will not allow you to bash this organization anymore. I would appreciate you not commenting on them seeing you know nothing about them…

 

[ralphinal]

I beg to differ. When Madonna hung herself on the Cross, mocking Jesus, Mr. Donahue and thousands of people protested. When others defame Christ, it is brought to their attention and they are embarrassed. In all my years knowing the Catholic League, I NEVER EVER once saw this. I never ever saw the mistreatment of gays by this League. That is offensive and in poor taste Mr. Raphinal, and I will not allow you to bash this organization anymore. I would appreciate you not commenting on them seeing you know nothing about them…

And you know what I know? You can tell the amount of Knowledge in my mind? Or the accuracy of my memories?

Can you judge the state of my soul? Can you read the contents of my heart?

I will say this one more time, using the simplist language possible.

The CL does some good work.

Evil should be confronted and exposed.

We can do this without being confrontational or rude.

The CL at times is very confrontational and rude.

I have a problem with that.

 

[churchcamefirst]

And you know what I know? You can tell the amount of Knowledge in my mind? Or the accuracy of my memories?

Can you judge the state of my soul? Can you read the contents of my heart?

I will say this one more time, using the simplist language possible.

The CL does some good work.

Evil should be confronted and exposed.

We can do this without being confrontational or rude.

The CL at times is very confrontational and rude.

I have a problem with that.

Why don’t you focus more on what they do than your interpretations of their being rude? Do you have a problem defending Jesus Christ? Simple yes or no will do.

 

[ralphinal]

Why don’t you focus more on what they do than your interpretations of their being rude? Do you have a problem defending Jesus Christ? Simple yes or no will do.

No, a simple yes or no will not do.

I have no problem confronting evil. I have no problem standing up for Christ. I will NOT condone vilolence as a tool to defend the Church or Jesus. Nor will I condone being intollerant of people (we can hate actions, not people). I am not allowed to judge the sinner, only the sin. When we act rude, we are seen as the oppressors. Do not forget that many people see the Catholic Church as the great evil puppet-master controlling all. If we act like we are entitled to something beyond heaven, we fall into their traps. If we make it look like we are opposed to something because it hurts our feelings, we look spoiled. What we should be doing is showing other Christians why this evil should be stopped. Like we have with Abortion.

 

[churchcamefirst]

No, a simple yes or no will not do.

I have no problem confronting evil. I have no problem standing up for Christ. I will NOT condone vilolence as a tool to defend the Church or Jesus. Nor will I condone being intollerant of people (we can hate actions, not people). I am not allowed to judge the sinner, only the sin. When we act rude, we are seen as the oppressors. Do not forget that many people see the Catholic Church as the great evil puppet-master controlling all. If we act like we are entitled to something beyond heaven, we fall into their traps. If we make it look like we are opposed to something because it hurts our feelings, we look spoiled. What we should be doing is showing other Christians why this evil should be stopped. Like we have with Abortion.

You are wrong! The other side of Christ are the people defaming him are the ones that are rude! I am all done here and I refuse to argue with another CATHOLIC. Shame…

 

[a_mirror_dimly]

You are wrong! The other side of Christ are the people defaming him are the ones that are rude! I am all done here and I refuse to argue with another CATHOLIC. Shame…

Your opponents being rude and uncharitable is a completely separate question from whether your own behavior reflects such charity. The behavior of those we oppose cannot justify poor behavior on our parts, even if the cause we represent is righteous.

 

[churchcamefirst]

Your opponents being rude and uncharitable is a completely separate question from whether your own behavior reflects such charity. The behavior of those we oppose cannot justify poor behavior on our parts, even if the cause we represent is righteous.

Huh??

 

[ralphinal]

Your opponents being rude and uncharitable is a completely separate question from whether your own behavior reflects such charity. The behavior of those we oppose cannot justify poor behavior on our parts, even if the cause we represent is righteous.

:bowdown2:

Much better said that I did. Thank you.

 

[eucharisteo]

Me either. Calling attention to the depravity is a good way to start, I think.
The Alabamian in me says a baseball bat, but that is too Old Testement…

Well…let me pull out my KJV…it’s the 1611 Edition…contains the extra Catholic books. Makes an effective weapon against modern heresy.

 

[peary]

Since we Catholics have the Catholic League and other organizations that defend our church and the Catholic faith, what do Protestants have to defend their churches and their faith?
Not to mention the Knights of Columbus with millions of the faithful who belong to this great organization and many, many others.

The Masons?