The Catholic/Orthodox Schism Much Older Than Believed?

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Gabriel_of_12 said:
Vatican II ecumenical documents emphatically declare that Latin Catholics are not to convert Orthodox Catholics to Latin and vice versa. When ecumenical dialogue between the two is to be encouraged.
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I don’t think Vatican 2 says that. The closest thing I can find is this comment: “If any separated Eastern Christian should, under the guidance of the grace of the Holy Spirit, join himself to the unity of Catholics, no more should be required of him than what a bare profession of the Catholic faith demands.” source

To me, that seems to praise conversion. I don’t see anything in Vatican 2 that says conversion of the Orthodox is not to be sought.

There is, however, a document called the Balamand Declaration that was prepared by “[r]epresentatives of nine autocephalous and autonomous Orthodox Churches” and “twenty four members of the [International Theological] Commission”. It is hosted at the Vatican website and says: “in the search for re-establishing unity there is no question of conversion of people from one Church to the other in order to ensure their salvation.” (paragraph 15) And: “Pastoral activity in the Catholic Church, Latin as well as Oriental, no longer aims at having the faithful of one Church pass over to the other; that is to say, it no longer aims at proselytizing among the Orthodox.” (paragraph 22)

Re: that document, I think the qualifications involved, such as “in order to ensure their salvation,” and “that is to say…proselytizing,” make this easier to understand for someone who believes, with Vatican 2, that conversion to Catholicism is something to be assisted. Also, it is noteworthy that the International Theological Commission is an advisory body and is not a part of the Magisterium. Thus, unless I’ve missed something, this document is a suggestion to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, and doesn’t bind our course of action.
 
dmar198 said:
I don’t think Vatican 2 says that. The closest thing I can find is this comment: “If any separated Eastern Christian should, under the guidance of the grace of the Holy Spirit, join himself to the unity of Catholics, no more should be required of him than what a bare profession of the Catholic faith demands.” source

To me, that seems to praise conversion. I don’t see anything in Vatican 2 that says conversion of the Orthodox is not to be sought.
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We don’t block an Orthodox Christian from “converting” or “coming into communion with Rome” or whatever we might call it, but neither do we try to get him/her to do so.
 
BartholomewB said:
Yes, I’m sure you’re right about the timing, but I think the disagreement had less to do with theology and more to do with politics. In the West, the papacy claimed to be above national politics and refused to be bossed around by kings and princes – although, in practice, popes weren’t always able to live up to that high standard. In the East it was the other way around: the Orthodox Church never made any such claim in connection with the Byzantine Empire, which explains why, as recently as the mid-twentieth century, the Russian Orthodox hierarchy was able to get on well enough with Stalin and his successors.
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I am inclined to your point of view. I don’t profess to be a scholar on the matter as some here do. But I have read a fair amount about it from non-Catholic, non-Orthodox sources (which, admittedly might carry a bias all their own) and it seems to me it was more political than anything else.

If you ask me (which I know you didn’t) I think the division is still fundamentally political.
 
Peter_J said:
We don’t block an Orthodox Christian from “converting” or “coming into communion with Rome” or whatever we might call it, but neither do we try to get him/her to do so.
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Perhaps that is true in some sense, but at least in my own case I give Orthodox people literature about the Catholic faith and pray that they enter full Communion with the pope. If I’m doing something wrong, I hope to be corrected in time for me to repent, but at present I don’t think giving away free Catholic literature and praying for a deeper conversion to Christ and His Church is wrong or contrary to the pastoral approach of the Church. The Church receives converts from Orthodoxy every year and praises them for doing so. Since conversion is praised, it must be a good thing, and if it is a good thing, then it seems to be sought at least in some sense every time we pray for RCIA candidates, and give pro-conversion literature to Orthodox people, and so many other things.
 
dmar198 said:
Perhaps that is true in some sense, but at least in my own case I give Orthodox people literature about the Catholic faith and pray that they enter full Communion with the pope. If I’m doing something wrong, I hope to be corrected in time for me to repent, but at present I don’t think giving away free Catholic literature and praying for a deeper conversion to Christ and His Church is wrong or contrary to the pastoral approach of the Church. The Church receives converts from Orthodoxy every year and praises them for doing so. Since conversion is praised, it must be a good thing, and if it is a good thing, then it seems to be sought at least in some sense every time we pray for RCIA candidates, and give pro-conversion literature to Orthodox people, and so many other things.
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I would just point out that RCIA is not appropriate for the Orthodox, as they have already received the sacraments of Christian initiation. Some pastors may have Orthodox received preparing to be received into full communion with the Catholic Church participate in RCIA classes, but the actual RCIA itself is not appropriate. All that is required of the Orthodox is a profession of faith.
 
Well said, Ryan.

But that aside, I think you make a good point, dmar. I probably shouldn’t have said “we don’t” etc because Catholics are not a monolithic group. (Actually, one of my pet peeves is when people see something on, let’s say, catholic.com and assume that it must be representative of Catholics.

In short, I’m only speaking of policy.
 
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