The Catholic Vs. The Orthodox Church: Which is the True Church?

[mardukm]

Dear brother Mick,

You’re right. And yet the title of the piece reads,

Thoughts from an Eastern Orthodox Priest

Uneasily,
Mick

Don’t be too confused. The priest was indeed an Eastern Orthodox priest when he wrote that back in 1996. He simply saw the truth in the fiction of a “united” Eastern Orthodox Church, and realized the necessity of the God-appointed role of the Petrine ministry of the Bishop of Rome. Thus, he eventually became Catholic.

There has been no “deception.” The deception is by those EO who have come on here and claimed there was a deception by the Catholic side.

I am one of those who call themselves an “Orthodox in communion with Rome.” You will notice that all the early Fathers of the Church were also Orthodox in communion with Rome. Those who claim the name believe we are representing true Orthodoxy as it was in the first millenium of the Church.

If you have any questions, feel free to PM or e-mail me.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[Mickey]

You will notice that all the early Fathers of the Church were also Orthodox in communion with Rome.

LOL! That is because Rome was Orthodox at that time.

 

[Mickey]

Many Eastern Catholics are slowly starting realize that “Orthodox in Communion with Rome” just isn’t quite the reality it is said to be.

Yes. That is the realization I came to also when I was an Eastern Catholic.

God bless you on your journey!

 

[Patrick1982]

So you really don’t think it’s at all deceptive to convieniently forget to mention that this man is no longer a preist in the Orthodox Church? Really??

Dear brother Mick,

Don’t be too confused. The priest was indeed an Eastern Orthodox priest when he wrote that back in 1996. He simply saw the truth in the fiction of a “united” Eastern Orthodox Church, and realized the necessity of the God-appointed role of the Petrine ministry of the Bishop of Rome. Thus, he eventually became Catholic.

There has been no “deception.” The deception is by those EO who have come on here and claimed there was a deception by the Catholic side.

I am one of those who call themselves an “Orthodox in communion with Rome.” You will notice that all the early Fathers of the Church were also Orthodox in communion with Rome. Those who claim the name believe we are representing true Orthodoxy as it was in the first millenium of the Church.

If you have any questions, feel free to PM or e-mail me.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[mardukm]

Dear brother Patrick,

So you really don’t think it’s at all deceptive to convieniently forget to mention that this man is no longer a preist in the Orthodox Church? Really??

The link contains all the information. It was written back in 1996. So no there is no deception.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[mardukm]

LOL! That is because Rome was Orthodox at that time.

She still is.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[Mickey]

She still is.

Of course you must believe that She is–else you would be forced to “translate” back to Holy Orthodoxy.

 

[SSTeacher]

Dear brother Mick,

Don’t be too confused. The priest was indeed an Eastern Orthodox priest when he wrote that back in 1996. He simply saw the truth in the fiction of a “united” Eastern Orthodox Church, and realized the necessity of the God-appointed role of the Petrine ministry of the Bishop of Rome. Thus, he eventually became Catholic.

There has been no “deception.” The deception is by those EO who have come on here and claimed there was a deception by the Catholic side.

I am one of those who call themselves an “Orthodox in communion with Rome.” You will notice that all the early Fathers of the Church were also Orthodox in communion with Rome. Those who claim the name believe we are representing true Orthodoxy as it was in the first millenium of the Church.

If you have any questions, feel free to PM or e-mail me.

Blessings,
Marduk

Thanks, Marduk, for taking the time to lift me from my confusion thus dispelling my unease. I accept the explanation so there will be no need for me to give the matter any further thought as I continue on my search.

Thanks, also, for graciously offering your assistance via private message or email. I might take you up on that offer at some time.

Gratefully,
Mick

 

[PJM]

***The Catholic Vs. The Orthodox Church: Which is the True Church? ***

My dear fellow Catholic!

I’m laughing as I write this post.

The pictures you sharred are quite beautiful, as are your piety and the history of the Orthodox Churches, howerver my dear friend, you failed completely to answer your own question:blush:

"Which is the true Church"?

It’s a duh question

The ONEthat Jesus Himself founded.

Mt. 16:18-20

7 "And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. 18* And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death * shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

Dear friend in Christ, dear Brother, how can you simply push this asside?

And didn’t you all seperate from the RCC? So what is the point of your OP?

Love and prayers Brother! Come on home

 

[SSTeacher]

***The Catholic Vs. The Orthodox Church: Which is the True Church? ***

My dear fellow Catholic!

I’m laughing as I write this post.

The pictures you sharred are quite beautiful, as are your piety and the history of the Orthodox Churches, howerver my dear friend, you failed completely to answer your own question:blush:

"Which is the true Church"?

It’s a duh question

The ONEthat Jesus Himself founded.

Mt. 16:18-20

7 "And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. 18* And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death * shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

Dear friend in Christ, dear Brother, how can you simply push this asside?

And didn’t you all seperate from the RCC? So what is the point of your OP?

Love and prayers Brother! Come on home

PJM,

Please forgive me for being dense but to whom is your post addressed and what are you talking about?

Curiously,
Mick

 

[SingleMomMonica]

Hi Mick,

Just checking in with you. Have you gotten your hands on those 2 books I recommended?

The Early Christian writings clearly indicate that the Catholic Church is the Church that Christ established through St. Peter.

I don’t want you to take my word or anyone else’s word for it though.

I can’t wait for you to read the Early Christian’s words for yourself, then you will have no doubt and will save a world of time and heartache!

Monica

 

[Hesychios]

Hi Mick,

mardukm;4819446:

Dear brother Mick,

Don’t be too confused. The priest was indeed an Eastern Orthodox priest when he wrote that back in 1996. He simply saw the truth in the fiction of a “united” Eastern Orthodox Church, and realized the necessity of the God-appointed role of the Petrine ministry of the Bishop of Rome. Thus, he eventually became Catholic.

There has been no “deception.” The deception is by those EO who have come on here and claimed there was a deception by the Catholic side.

I am one of those who call themselves an “Orthodox in communion with Rome.” You will notice that all the early Fathers of the Church were also Orthodox in communion with Rome. Those who claim the name believe we are representing true Orthodoxy as it was in the first millenium of the Church.

If you have any questions, feel free to PM or e-mail me.

Blessings,
Marduk

Thanks, Marduk, for taking the time to lift me from my confusion thus dispelling my unease. I accept the explanation so there will be no need for me to give the matter any further thought as I continue on my search.

Thanks, also, for graciously offering your assistance via private message or email. I might take you up on that offer at some time.

Gratefully,
Mick

I don’t have any problem with the fact that Father Chrysostom translated to the Catholic church under the Pope at Rome, I just have a problem with CAF presenting this as an Orthodox position, which it is not.

Father Chrysostom was raised in the United States as a Protestant, went to seminary and became (not sure about the brand or denomination) a Minister, possibly Presbyterian. I don’t know whatever else he did before becoming Orthodox, but he was amidst an odyssey when he wrote that piece. It represents transitional thinking not reflecting Orthodox thought. I can guess that by the time that essay was first published he was a priest on his resume only, not serving under an Orthodox bishop, because bishops do not keep men around who think like that and publish about it. But the way it is presented here makes it seem as though there are actually Orthodox priests serving with that opinion.

In other words, to turn it around, would the Roman Catholic church keep priests who publicly denied Papal Universal Jurisdiction or Papal Infallibility? I should think not. They are (according to the Latin church) actually automatically excommunicated, and excommunicated men cannot serve.

I think that the posting of that essay by father Chrysostom was a cheap attempt to ensnare some Orthodox into thinking such opinions are accepted by some in Holy Orthodoxy. This explains why Wisdomseeker would refer to it, he is saying “come on, it’s OK to think like this, other Orthodox do”.

Well, they don’t. When people come to this conclusion they are on their way out.

As I have already explained, there is no such thing as Orthodox in communion with Rome. There are some Catholics who may think that they are Orthodox, God Bless 'em. (There are also Cafeteria Catholics who do not believe in or even necessarily understand Papal Universal Jurisdiction, that does not make them Orthodox either.)

I do wish it wasn’t so hard, but that’s just the way it is.

What makes one Orthodox is correct belief, and correct worship, neither adding nor deleting doctrine. Orthodox do not commune with people who teach errors, which is why, even if they subscribed to the Zoghby Initiative Eastern Catholics are not Orthodox.

Maybe some day yet.

Pax et Bonum,
Michael

 

[mardukm]

Dear brother Mick,

PJM,

Please forgive me for being dense but to whom is your post addressed and what are you talking about?

Curiously,
Mick

Matthew 16:18 is one of the great Catholic proofs from the Bible. Christ was speaking specifically to Simon, who, by the changing of his name, a very significant event in semitic lore, gave him the Old Testament role of “prime minister.” Jesus gave St. Peter a special role, bolstered by His special assignment and prayer for Peter to be the confirmer of the brethren. This was a special office instituted by Christ for the building up of the Church, and it is, through the doctrine of apostolic succession, still present with us today. Recall Jesus’ own exhortation - “who is the faithful servant who the master has set over the household. When the master returns, will he find him feeding the sheep?” This is scriptural proof that this office of a special servant who is set over the household of God will be present when Christ returns. The first one who held this office was St. Peter, and the special prerogatives and (especially) responsibilites of this office was handed down through the Apostolic Succession. The Church of God is the one who possesses this unique Petrine office, and it is only the Catholic Church among all the apostolic Churches (i.e., among the Catholic, Oriental Orthodox, Eastern Orthodox and Ancient Church of the East) who actually possesses this unique Petrine office.

So if you are looking for roadsigns to direct you to the Church of God, look to see who has the unique Petrine office that St. Peter himself possessed. This is the one thing that distinguishes Catholicism from all others. As many Catholic apologists and saints have pointed out, the one thing that unites all non-Catholic polemicists is their hatred of the papacy.

Understand that the Catholic Church considers all who believe in Jesus Christ as God, Lord, and Savior, the Second Person of the Trinity, as members of the one, true, Church of God. Some have a more perfect membership in this Church of God than others, and not all of them go by the designation “Catholic.” There are many who do not go by the name “Catholic” but are members of the Catholic Church nonetheless by virtue of an inner desire for full membership, though by one reason or another, by circumstances beyond their control, are not visible members of this one true Church. This is the teaching of the Catholic Church of God.

Hope that helps.

Abundant blessings,
Marduk

P.S. If you are interested, here is my personal testimony: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=202141

 

[wisdomseeker]

***The Catholic Vs. The Orthodox Church: Which is the True Church? ***

My dear fellow Catholic!

I’m laughing as I write this post.

The pictures you sharred are quite beautiful, as are your piety and the history of the Orthodox Churches, howerver my dear friend, you failed completely to answer your own question:blush:

"Which is the true Church"?

It’s a duh question

The ONEthat Jesus Himself founded.

Mt. 16:18-20

7 "And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. 18* And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death * shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

Dear friend in Christ, dear Brother, how can you simply push this asside?

And didn’t you all seperate from the RCC? So what is the point of your OP?

Love and prayers Brother! Come on home

The problem here is that people blind themselves and fall into confusion, all because they always looking for something wrong with the Catholic Church. this has been their main goal. they must find something wrong wiht the Church.
and their quest goes on and on and on. sad, very sad.

despite of their hate for the Church, the Church continues to do everything She can to bring all back to Her. this is the True Church, the One who can and have the authority and humility to do so.

:byzsoc:

 

[panoikei]

Hi Mick,
I don’t have any problem with the fact that Father Chrysostom translated to the Catholic church under the Pope at Rome, I just have a problem with CAF presenting this as an Orthodox position, which it is not.

Father Chrysostom was raised in the United States as a Protestant, went to seminary and became (not sure about the brand or denomination) a Minister, possibly Presbyterian. I don’t know whatever else he did before becoming Orthodox, but he was amidst an odyssey when he wrote that piece. It represents transitional thinking not reflecting Orthodox thought. I can guess that by the time that essay was first published he was a priest on his resume only, not serving under an Orthodox bishop, because bishops do not keep men around who think like that and publish about it. But the way it is presented here makes it seem as though there are actually Orthodox priests serving with that opinion.

In other words, to turn it around, would the Roman Catholic church keep priests who publicly denied Papal Universal Jurisdiction or Papal Infallibility? I should think not. They are (according to the Latin church) actually automatically excommunicated, and excommunicated men cannot serve.

I think that the posting of that essay by father Chrysostom was a cheap attempt to ensnare some Orthodox into thinking such opinions are accepted by some in Holy Orthodoxy. This explains why Wisdomseeker would refer to it, he is saying “come on, it’s OK to think like this, other Orthodox do”.

Well, they don’t. When people come to this conclusion they are on their way out.

As I have already explained, there is no such thing as Orthodox in communion with Rome. There are some Catholics who may think that they are Orthodox, God Bless 'em. (There are also Cafeteria Catholics who do not believe in or even necessarily understand Papal Universal Jurisdiction, that does not make them Orthodox either.)

I do wish it wasn’t so hard, but that’s just the way it is.

What makes one Orthodox is correct belief, and correct worship, neither adding nor deleting doctrine. Orthodox do not commune with people who teach errors, which is why, even if they subscribed to the Zoghby Initiative Eastern Catholics are not Orthodox.

Maybe some day yet.

Pax et Bonum,
Michael

I’d like to point out that just because you have a word association with your name doesn’t mean its so…Orthodox does not preclude orthodox or correct belief. That is wishful thinking. I do believe there is a lot of truth there, but not all of it.

Example:
I also find it intersting or peculiar that Baptist refer to themselves as Baptists. Why? Because many of them believe in the believer’s prayer and not baptism as required for salvation. Irony exsists in the darndest places. However, Catholicism exists everywhere. I wish you position could be proved, but it can’t. God luck with that belief. To be Orhtodox is in essence to be of a cultural mindset that is determined to be against others. That is what I’ve learned over the years. Sorry if what I said sounds rude. It’s not meant to.

PAX

 

[Patrick1982]

I’d like to point out that just because you have a word association with your name doesn’t mean its so…Orthodox does not preclude orthodox or correct belief. That is wishful thinking. I do believe there is a lot of truth there, but not all of it.

Example:
I also find it intersting or peculiar that Baptist refer to themselves as Baptists. Why? Because many of them believe in the believer’s prayer and not baptism as required for salvation. Irony exsists in the darndest places. However, Catholicism exists everywhere. I wish you position could be proved, but it can’t. God luck with that belief. To be Orhtodox is in essence to be of a cultural mindset that is determined to be against others. That is what I’ve learned over the years. Sorry if what I said sounds rude. It’s not meant to.

PAX

By the same token to call yourself “The Catholic Church” doesn’t mean that you are… good luck with that belief. Oh sorry- I thought we were being obnoxious now.

 

[SSTeacher]

SingleMomMonica:

Two books, which I think are the best for someone to read who is looking seriously at Orthodoxy as an option to convert to from Protestantism, are:

1. Jesus, Peter and the Keys, A Scriptural Handbook on the Papacy by the authors Scott Butler, Norman Duhlgren and Rev. Mr. David Hess
2. The Biblical Basis for the Papacy by the author John Salza

Both of these books do address both the Scriptural Basis for the Papacy as well as the reference an abundance of the writings of early Christians like St. John Chrysostom and St. Cyprian and other “Eastern” and some “Western” Saints who clearly believed and taught that the Pope has Universal Jurisdiction rather than just a local jurisdiction as the other Patriarchs and Bishops.

Hi Mick,

Just checking in with you. Have you gotten your hands on those 2 books I recommended?

The Early Christian writings clearly indicate that the Catholic Church is the Church that Christ established through St. Peter.

I don’t want you to take my word or anyone else’s word for it though.

I can’t wait for you to read the Early Christian’s words for yourself, then you will have no doubt and will save a world of time and heartache!

Monica

Hi Monica,

I haven’t yet gotten around to those two books but I’ll eventually get there. I’m not sure that I necessarily want to get behind the approach of saving myself time and heartache, though. I seem to recall that when I recognized the huge flaw in Protestantism and came to realize that I was headed either for the Catholic Church or for the Orthodox Church, I wanted the right answer immediately. But that right answer hasn’t yet been given to me. Actually, I’ve been thinking seriously about this matter since the beginning of 2006 so by God’s grace I’ve reached the point where I’m content to wait for clarification. That clarification may come in part through my reading, I suppose, but I think it will come mainly through my prayers.

It’s extremely thoughtful of you to check on me. May God bless you always.

Sincerely,
Mick

 

[dvdjs]

WOW! How perfectly deceptive of them… unless you believe they somehow were unaware he is not actually an Orthodox preist.

So you really don’t think it’s at all deceptive to convieniently forget to mention that this man is no longer a priest in the Orthodox Church? Really??

Patrick 1982,

Mardukm has already clarified the point, but since you did not acknowledge it, perhaps some additional comment is worthwhile.

The link to Father Chrysostom’s remarks is not just a link to an older article, it is a link to a journal at CA - volume 7 number 1 Jan 1996 issue of “This Rock”. At that time Fr Chrysostom was an Orthodox priest. It is not the practice of any journal that I know of to re-edit back issues to reflect changing affiliations.

To accuse “them” of being deceptive" is completely unwarranted. And frankly it’s more than a little rude, while you are posting at the CAF: odd to insult your hosts this way.

Or this way:

most all of the Orthodox Christians who used to post here have strangely and magically disappeared

Re: Is It The Catholic Church Or The Orthodox Church That Possess The Fullness Of Truth? post #79.

 

[Patrick1982]

So Dvdjs - do you have an actual point or are you trying to make things I’ve said seem worse than they are so that I get an infraction of some sort? He clarified- fine, what am I supposed to add to it? I still find it bordering on deceptive for reasons Hesychios already stated… if not deceptive at least misleading.

 

[Hesychios]

I’d like to point out that just because you have a word association with your name doesn’t mean its so…Orthodox does not preclude orthodox or correct belief. That is wishful thinking. I do believe there is a lot of truth there, but not all of it.

It’s not about the name on the sign.

It is how the church has functioned from the beginning. No communion with churchmen who teach error. If these individuals (whether bishops, priests or laypersons) want to commune with the rest of the church, they must not teach error or commune with any who do.
*
Michael*