The Catholicism of the Star Wars movies

[colliric]

The whole point of ROTS is that the Jedi fall because they do not see they are being selfish in protecting their own interests and not putting the interests of others ahead of themself, which is what they normally do until “Attack of the Clones” when the dark side begins to take over and force the Jedi to go to the furtherest side of the galaxy away from the republic it is supposed to be defending. The Jedi ALL in the arena on Dooku’s planet is precisely the moment when they reveal their terrible weakness. This entire film is about separation of protector/teacher and republic/Pupil.

They defend themselves, through attack, at the expense of the greater purpose for which they originally came into existence for. They are not supposed to attack, in episode 3 they were supposed to be together in the Temple on Corusant defending the young ones rather than gallivanting around the universe trying to find the sith lord and destroy the evil 4 armed General Grevious. They were supposed to defend and protect the youngest Jedi’s on their home planet, and likewise the republic. And the same with Obi-Wan and his relationship with his Pupil. Twice(Thrice if you include the time Obi-Wan is knocked unconscious by Count Dooku in Ep3) they are separated.

In AOTC anakin is made to fend for himself, he is actually given too much responsibility and cracks under the pressure which is placed on him by the council, fostering his rebellious(against the Jedi and his tutor) attitude, He simply spends too much time away from authority of the Jedi Council and obi-wan. He grows fond of the supreme councillor and gives up his vow of chastity.

In the third film, Anakin, who is still learning how to use the force from a moral standpoint, takes his training from Darth Sidious, rather than Obi-Wan. When obi-wan wakes from being unconscious, he asks “have I missed something”, well yes he did, he missed Anakin beheading Dooku upon advice from Darth Sidious.

When Yoda says “Failed, I Have”, he realizes his failure to defend the Jedi Temple and the home planet. Obi Wan’s falure is likewise, he only failed Anakin simply because he was supposed to be there and wasn’t, twice by choice and once by being knocked off his feet.

They both learn the lesson in the original trilogy that with Luke they must be Absolute and uncompromising in their teaching, spending every moment with him during the training period. They also realize it is actually to the advantage of Luke(and also Leia) to have something that the Jedi order denied other potential Jedi, including Anakin, in times past… a real and full childhood, outside of the Jedi teaching, in the loving care of those who will protect him from harm and nurture him… his loving family… They both realise that when in TPM Qui Gon says “He’s much too old”, he is in fact, gravely wrong and the opposite is true.

That’s why, at the End of ROTS we see Australian Actor Joel Edgeton, as Uncle Owen, looking toward a bright sunny hopeful future, as he gazes on the Sunset with his wife Aunt Peru… holding the child she has been, by the force, given the responsibility of raising up as obi-wan watches on touching his cheek as if in deep thought.

There are certainly deeper themes in the Prequel trilogy of Star Wars, than just the battle of Good and Evil… especially when you think of Star Wars as 1 gigantic 6 part film.

 

[fcbv]

I had a BIG problem with that line because it was so uncharacteristic of a Jedi to say. If you ever listen to Yoda in “Return of the Jedi”, HE deals with absolutes. I am paraphrasing here, but I remember when Yoda was dying, he said “Once you start down the dark path, **forever will it dominate your destiny.” **How is that not absolutism? Also, in “Attack of the Clones”, when Anakin was admiring Chancelor Palpatine, Obi Wan said to him that “Politicians are not to be trusted.” How is that not absolutism? If we were to have Obi-Wan logic, Jesus Christ would be sith because he despises the “lukewarm”.

:yup:
Our Lord Jesus Christ said: “Who isn’t with me is against me, and who doesn’t gather with me only scatters.” (Matt. 12:30)

 

[colliric]

:yup:
Our Lord Jesus Christ said: “Who isn’t with me is against me, and who doesn’t gather with me only scatters.” (Matt. 12:30)

yeah, i pointed this out already… Yoda learns this…

In fact He learns it in Episode 3…

When he with Obi-wan in the temple after it has been destroyed and they are watching Darth Vader on the security footage, after it Yoda comes to this realization… “Destroy the Sith, we MUST!!!”(emphasizing the “Must”) . He has in this one moment realized his and Obi-Wan’s failure and has already personally learn’t that the Jedi must be absolute in their quest for good, they must destroy the darkside forever. He has yet to impart this teaching to Obi Wan( who says “Only a Sith deals in absolutes”…)… But it is what internally saves Luke when he is deep within the new death star looking down at his defeated weakened mechanical father, at his already mechanical hand and possibly remembering the vision he had in the Cave in “Empire Strikes Back” and realizing he has started down the same path as his dad…

“Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny”…

 

[childofmary1143]

Episodes 1 and 2 were no where near as good as the Original Trilogy but Episode 3 was. I guess because it answered a lot of questions and there is a lot of theology involved.

Entering Episode 3 everybody was looking at how Anakin Skywalker could turn into Darth Vader. Critics of the film thought that his switch was too dramatic in Episode 3 but I don’t. You can see the build up to it from the beginning of Episode 2.

Now what caused Anakin to turn to evil? First of course was himself and his thirst for Power and attention. Secondly of course was Palpatine as he played Anakin like the naive but incredibly gifted Jedi that he was.

But the Jedi Order had a big share in it too. When you hear Yoda and Ben describe the Jedi order in the Original Trilogy you think of a very Noble group of people dedicated to a good purpose. However when the Prequels came along they were anything but.

Consider the first scene of them in Council when Qui Gon reported about Darth Maul. He said it was the Sith. Everybody scoffed at him. The only one who maintained a somewhat open mind about it was Yoda allowing for the possibility.

Then in Episode 2 Padme wisely said to Yoda, Windu and the other Jedi that it was Dooku who was behind the assassination attempt. They refused to believe her. Guess who was right about that one?

Why they put Anakin to protect Padme even with Obi-Wan’s VERY WISE observations about him is beyond comprehension. We know what happened as a result of that.

Then the utter stupidity of the Jedi council reached Mount Everest when they asked Obi-Wan in Episode 3 to have Anakin snitch on his best friend to a Council that had insulted him by refusing to make him a Master. What makes it confusing is that after that scene Windu doubts whether Anakin would do it. Why ask him then??

 

[David_Zampino]

Star Wars could be applicable to Catholicism but I don’t think George Lucas really had that in mind when he wrote the screenplay. Don’t get me wrong the story does have some good elements but I think it had more overlaying themes of good vs. evil and mythological story typical telling. Lord of the Rings, the book at least, directly was influenced by J.R.R. Tolkien’s Catholicism. I suggest if you haven’t read it and only seen the movie to read the book. It is better than the movie

George Lucas’s religious tendencies lean toward the Zen Bhuddist. There is a key difference between “The Lord of the Rings” and “Star Wars”.

In “The Lord of the Rings”, Good is stronger than Evil. Evil is shown as the perversion of Good, rather than its own creative entity. That mirrors Christianity.

In “Star Wars”, Good and Evil are continuously at war, and neither can ultimately win. Both are “creative”; neither is (ultimately) stronger than the other. It is an expression of “Dualism”.

Check out the sections of CS Lewis’s “Mere Christianity” entitled “Right and Wrong as a Clue to Meaning in the Universe” and “What Christians Believe”.

Having said this, the “Star Wars” saga can been seen to function as a fairy story, as illustrated in JRR Tolkien’s essay “On Fairy Stories” (which I highly recommend!)

 

[Blinky]

Before, I thought George Lucas based the Jedi on the priesthood or even Buddhist priests. Alas, I think I read somewhere that he based the Jedi on Japanese samurai.

One of my favorite sites that discusses the inspiration for “Star Wars” is here: spookybug.com/origins/index.html

 

[colliric]

childofmary:

Episodes 1 and 2 were no where near as good as the Original Trilogy but Episode 3 was. I guess because it answered a lot of questions and there is a lot of theology involved.

Entering Episode 3 everybody was looking at how Anakin Skywalker could turn into Darth Vader. Critics of the film thought that his switch was too dramatic in Episode 3 but I don’t. You can see the build up to it from the beginning of Episode 2.

Now what caused Anakin to turn to evil? First of course was himself and his thirst for Power and attention. Secondly of course was Palpatine as he played Anakin like the naive but incredibly gifted Jedi that he was.

But the Jedi Order had a big share in it too. When you hear Yoda and Ben describe the Jedi order in the Original Trilogy you think of a very Noble group of people dedicated to a good purpose. However when the Prequels came along they were anything but.

Consider the first scene of them in Council when Qui Gon reported about Darth Maul. He said it was the Sith. Everybody scoffed at him. The only one who maintained a somewhat open mind about it was Yoda allowing for the possibility.

Then in Episode 2 Padme wisely said to Yoda, Windu and the other Jedi that it was Dooku who was behind the assassination attempt. They refused to believe her. Guess who was right about that one?

Why they put Anakin to protect Padme even with Obi-Wan’s VERY WISE observations about him is beyond comprehension. We know what happened as a result of that.

Then the utter stupidity of the Jedi council reached Mount Everest when they asked Obi-Wan in Episode 3 to have Anakin snitch on his best friend to a Council that had insulted him by refusing to make him a Master. What makes it confusing is that after that scene Windu doubts whether Anakin would do it. Why ask him then??

What one realises when seeing Episode 4 in light of Episodes 2 and 3 is that Obi Wan has come to the realization that “the dark times” began as soon as they came under attack from the dark side at the end during the Climax of “The Phantom Menace” when he was fighting Darth Maul. What he says in the original film about the Jedi being “the guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy” applies to Episode 1 only and even more specifically to his old Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn.

No where was this actually more evident that in the Original Theatrical Trailer for Episode 3, when we were treated to a reminder of what lay ahead in this new episode. When Obi-wan is talking about “peace and Justice in the galaxy” we see shots of Qui-Gon Jinn from episode 1. However when obi-wan starts talking about “the dark times, the empire” we do not see shots from Episode 3 like one might expect, but scenes from episode 2. We see shots of the imperial fleet of battle cruises and the Shots of the Clone army.

Then we see Anakin racing on his speeder to rescue his mother(right as the “helped the empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights”) and shots of Him from Episode 2 as he begins to turn to the darkside, not scenes from episode 3.

The Episode 3 teaser trailer put the scene in episode 4 where obi-wan laments to Luke about the fall of the Jedi, into the correct Context. Giving us light as to why obi-wan says that and why he thinks the dark side began to take over as soon as his old master was dead. The dark times for obi-wan is everything after his Master had passed away and the Jedi no longer acted as Guardians.

Episode 1 is the last time the Jedi are seen in their correct untainted role of protector and guardian through the actions of Qui-Gon Jinn who is one of the last of the proper Jedi masters that are slowly and systematically Ousted by the empire… We come to realise later, that Yoda is the only other one…

There is even a scene in Episode 1 where Qui-Gon pulls up Obi-Wan about doing what you feel is right and is justice and is light side even when someone else tells you it’s wrong because obi-wan questions him about going against the decision of the council. Obi-Wan echoes it later in the series in Episode 4 when he says “You must do what you feel is right, of cause…” to Luke. Which is very different to everything he says to Anakin in Episode 2 (“What would she do?”)and 3(when he approaches Anakin to do something both of them know is Wrong, supposedly for the good of the council) when he continues his loyalty to the council above his duty as a Jedi.

As Obi-wan grows in his years, he becomes more and more wiser and more and more like his old master who he believes was where the Original and proper Jedi Order ended… To help explain this and also how Obi-Wan is able to communicate with Luke in episodes 4 to 6, in the final scene of episode 3 when he is talking to yoda, we are given the plot hole filling piece of information that qui-gon has somehow been able to achieve “Jedi Ghost”(he has become one with the force), and obi-wan is able to continue learning from him.

 

[melensdad]

LOTR isn’t the only movie that shows symbolic Catholicism in its movies and I would like to show how Star Wars has some of it and ask others to contribute as well.

The main figure in Star Wars is without a doubt Anakin Skywalker / Darth Vader. Through him one can see the dangers of pride and anger and fear. However his redemption at the end of the movies beautifully displays hope for all of us that no matter what evil people may do they can always turn back.

I will add more as this thread progresses.

Go to www.sqpn.com, that is the Star Quest Production Network. It is a Catholic network of that produces short downloadable podcasts (short internet download radio shows). Father Roderick has a series of Podcasts all about the Catholic symbolism and undercurrents in many popular movies. He also explains the Harry Potter series, Pirates of the Caribbean, etc.

 

[colliric]

In “The Lord of the Rings”, Good is stronger than Evil. Evil is shown as the perversion of Good, rather than its own creative entity. That mirrors Christianity.

Lord of the Rings focuses and mirrors Catholocism specificially… especially in ROTK.

“It is said, no man will kill me”
“I am no man”

This was a rather direct reference to the Vulgate and Douay Rheims’ rendering of Genesis 3:15 which makes it a Marian Prophecy about Mary crushing the head of the serpent in using “She”. It seems Tolkien was of the school of Catholics who were raised on the Rheims.

Plus all the other references other people would probally pick up on.

 

[David_Zampino]

Lord of the Rings focuses and mirrors Catholocism specificially… especially in ROTK.

“It is said, no man will kill me”
“I am no man”

This was a rather direct reference to the Vulgate and Douay Rheims’ rendering of Genesis 3:15 which makes it a Marian Prophecy about Mary crushing the head of the serpent in using “She”. It seems Tolkien was of the school of Catholics who were raised on the Rheims.

I strongly suggest that you are correct, seeing when he lived! And how he was raised!

 

[kellyb32]

Was anyone aware of this coming on the History Channel tomorrow night (memorial day evening) at 9 est?

history.com/minisites/starwarslegacy/

It looks rather interesting!

 

[Bruno_esqueXXII]

Star Wars could be applicable to Catholicism but I don’t think George Lucas really had that in mind when he wrote the screenplay. Don’t get me wrong the story does have some good elements but I think it had more overlaying themes of good vs. evil and mythological story typical telling. Lord of the Rings, the book at least, directly was influenced by J.R.R. Tolkien’s Catholicism. I suggest if you haven’t read it and only seen the movie to read the book. It is better than the movie

Agreed. Though many see the parallels – including the official USCCB review of Revenge of the Sith:

EXCERPT:
*When watched chronologically with the other films, “Sith” can be seen as the pivotal chapter of a story in which Anakin/Vader is the protagonist. His character arc parallels the fall and redemption of man. Anakin/Vader starts out innocent, but is seduced, like Adam, with “forbidden knowledge” that will give him mastery over life and death. All that’s missing is the apple.

Though films can be viewed as little more than a smorgasbord of Jungian psychology, Manichean dualism and New Age mysticism wrapped in sci-fi spectacle, at its heart the “Star Wars” saga is an old-fashioned tale of good versus evil, in which a “new hope” is just an episode away and light ultimately defeats darkness. And while some write off the franchise as adolescent fare, others more correctly view it as a return to mythic storytelling (of which “Sith” achieves a depth and complexity that its two recent predecessors sorely lacked).

The driving theme in “Sith” is the corrupting allure of evil, especially when manifested in a Nietzschean will to power.

Palpatine embodies the danger of modern relativism professing that “good is a point of view” and that “narrow dogmatic views” stunt true enlightenment. *

Yes – this is a veiled attempt to revive this thread – i just started the whole saga again this last weekend so I was reading this thread

 

[colliric]

Agreed. Though many see the parallels – including the official USCCB review of Revenge of the Sith:

EXCERPT:
*When watched chronologically with the other films, “Sith” can be seen as the pivotal chapter of a story in which Anakin/Vader is the protagonist. His character arc parallels the fall and redemption of man. Anakin/Vader starts out innocent, but is seduced, like Adam, with “forbidden knowledge” that will give him mastery over life and death. All that’s missing is the apple.

Though films can be viewed as little more than a smorgasbord of Jungian psychology, Manichean dualism and New Age mysticism wrapped in sci-fi spectacle, at its heart the “Star Wars” saga is an old-fashioned tale of good versus evil, in which a “new hope” is just an episode away and light ultimately defeats darkness. And while some write off the franchise as adolescent fare, others more correctly view it as a return to mythic storytelling (of which “Sith” achieves a depth and complexity that its two recent predecessors sorely lacked).

The driving theme in “Sith” is the corrupting allure of evil, especially when manifested in a Nietzschean will to power.

Palpatine embodies the danger of modern relativism professing that “good is a point of view” and that “narrow dogmatic views” stunt true enlightenment. *

Yes – this is a veiled attempt to revive this thread – i just started the whole saga again this last weekend so I was reading this thread

Not to mention Sith contains one of the most outward preachings in modern media of the dangers of priestly men being involved in hidden sexual relationships with women. The danger of becoming too attached to physical love rather than brotherly love…

 

[fcbv]

Not to mention Sith contains one of the most outward preachings in modern media of the dangers of priestly men being involved in hidden sexual relationships with women. The danger of becoming too attached to physical love rather than brotherly love…

:yup: 100% true, but in the SW movies we are speaking of religious brothers, not priests… The fidelity to the given vocation (marriage, religious brother - like the Jedi knights - , priesthood (religious or secular), religious sister…) is of extreme importance, no matter what vocation is!

 

[edwest2]

There is nothing Catholic in the Star Wars movies.

The force is an energy field produced by all living things. It can be used for good or evil. The Jedi are people who can tap into this field, however, George Lucas nullifies this by blaming a substance called midiclorians in a person’s body as being the cause for linking with this energy.

There are aspects of the movies that Catholics can relate to, such as the ‘redemption’ of Luke’s father, but there is nothing explicitly Catholic or Christian in these films.

God bless,
Ed

 

[Bruno_esqueXXII]

There is nothing Catholic in the Star Wars movies.

The force is an energy field produced by all living things. It can be used for good or evil. The Jedi are people who can tap into this field, however, George Lucas nullifies this by blaming a substance called midiclorians in a person’s body as being the cause for linking with this energy.

There are aspects of the movies that Catholics can relate to, such as the ‘redemption’ of Luke’s father, but there is nothing explicitly Catholic or Christian in these films.

God bless,
Ed

Well, by this sort of literal interpretation – yes you are right. And there would be nothing explicitly Catholic or Christian in ANY film unless it is explicitly ABOUT Catholicism or Christians (and these would have to be Christians behaving as Christians) .

 

[edwest2]

Uh, in the movie Forbidden Planet, after landing on an alien world, the Captain says, “The Lord sure makes beautiful planets.”

In The Day The Earth Stood Still, the human looking alien is killed and brought back to life. He is asked how long will he live. His reply: “I don’t know. That’s up to the Maker of all things.”

In Robinson Crusoe on Mars, the alien companion of a stranded man tells him, “God not forget.”

On the original Star Trek, Lt. Uhura corrects Captain Kirk about his understanding of some words spoken by a member of an alien race: “Captain, he wasn’t talking about the Sun. He was talking about the Son of God.”

God bless,
Ed

 

[Bruno_esqueXXII]

Uh, in the movie Forbidden Planet, after landing on an alien world, the Captain says, “The Lord sure makes beautiful planets.”

In The Day The Earth Stood Still, the human looking alien is killed and brought back to life. He is asked how long will he live. His reply: “I don’t know. That’s up to the Maker of all things.”

In Robinson Crusoe on Mars, the alien companion of a stranded man tells him, “God not forget.”

On the original Star Trek, Lt. Uhura corrects Captain Kirk about his understanding of some words spoken by a member of an alien race: “Captain, he wasn’t talking about the Sun. He was talking about the Son of God.”

God bless,
Ed

That’s my point almost exactly – those *are direct, literal reference *as opposed to parallel ideas that could be interpreted as…

 

[colliric]

Uh, in the movie Forbidden Planet, after landing on an alien world, the Captain says, “The Lord sure makes beautiful planets.”

In The Day The Earth Stood Still, the human looking alien is killed and brought back to life. He is asked how long will he live. His reply: “I don’t know. That’s up to the Maker of all things.”

In Robinson Crusoe on Mars, the alien companion of a stranded man tells him, “God not forget.”

On the original Star Trek, Lt. Uhura corrects Captain Kirk about his understanding of some words spoken by a member of an alien race: “Captain, he wasn’t talking about the Sun. He was talking about the Son of God.”

God bless,
Ed

Also in one episode of Star Trek: The Original Series, The Empath, there is a direct biblical quote.

“Psalm 95 Verse 4… In his hand are the deep places of
the Earth.” - Ozaba, the scientist.

It seems the religion of the 23rd century is still Christianity!

 

[colliric]

That’s my point almost exactly – those *are direct, literal reference *as opposed to parallel ideas that could be interpreted as…

If you want a direct reference, Anakin Skywalker quotes Jesus in Episode 3:
“If you are not with me, you are my enemy”…

Some people say this was a more direct reference to George Bush, But the truth is it is both. Lucas was well aware of this being a Jesus quote.

It’s not a negative reference at all… Lucas’s own commentary on the Mace Windu’s death scene explains why… He comments on how the Jedi fell as a result of not adhering to the same teaching, only employed in the reverse… The Jedi allow themselves to be tainted by the darkside’s alluring power. They do not realize that the only way is Absolutism, absolutism for the greater good of others rather than their selfish desire to survive.

And Yoda comes to realize this, he realizes his failure to protect the Jedi Temple and the younglings(“Failed I have”), as opposed to the wild goose chase the darkside led him on… he becomes Absolute himself and says “Destory the Sith… we Must!”.

That’s more than a direct reference right there, anakin’s quote of our lord and Saviour.