The chant "O Fortuna"

[LoyalViews]

I never really though of it before, but the chant “O Fortuna”, which is (I presume) unsuitable for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, is it of a satanic nature? I am wondering, because I hear it often in orchestral settings.

If I have this in the wrong place, please move it, for I didn’t know where to put it

God Bless :byzsoc:

 

[929dad]

First, you bet that O Fortuna (I assume you’re talking about the setting by Orff) is far from appropriate for Mass.

Second, here’s a link to the text: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O_Fortuna
I don’t think you’ll find much satanic in it.

 

[Dale_M]

I think you are referring to "Fortuna, Imperatrix Mundi, from Carl Orff’s setting of Carmina Burana
youtube.com/watch?v=RnHLaz4my1c

I don’t know Latin so can’t say for sure, but my understanding is that much of Carmina Burana is risque or contrary to Catholic teaching. Certainly the idea that Fortune is the ruler of the world isn’t something the Church would approve of.

Edit

As 929dad points out, the track is often called O Fortuna. There isn’t anything satanic about it.

 

[retired464]

This is an old Middle Ages song, and I believe is not liturgically acceptable. However, it isn’t demonic, just cynical and emphasizes fate rather than belief. I wouldn’t use it. I was at a monestary and they sang “One Hand, One Heart” from “West Side Story” as a part of the Mass. I find this truly inappropriate. There are so many good songs why delve into inappropriate ones?

 

[I_Thirst]

I don’t think it is Satanic. It’s just a lament about the human condition. While Fortuna is a Roman goddess, I don’t think it advocates Satanic or pagan worship. Fortuna/Fate is a used to personify someone’s downtrodden state, not to invoke a Roman diety.

Personification (or anthropomorphism) is a common literary device that has been used for ages. One biblical example is how Wisdom is addressed in the Book of Wisdom.

IMO its subject matter is similar to what you would hear in some blues tunes.

This is not a liturgical piece.

Check out the lyrics in Latin & English below.

O Fortuna
velut luna
statu variabilis,
semper crescis
aut decrescis;
vita detestabilis
nunc obdurat
et tunc curat
ludo mentis aciem,
egestatem,
potestatem
dissolvit ut glaciem.

Sors immanis
et inanis,
rota tu volubilis,
status malus,
vana salus
semper dissolubilis,
obumbrata
et velata
michi quoque niteris;
nunc per ludum
dorsum nudum
fero tui sceleris.

Sors salutis
et virtutis
michi nunc contraria,
est affectus
et defectus
semper in angaria.
Hac in hora
sine mora
corde pulsum tangite;
quod per sortem
sternit fortem,
mecum omnes plangite!

---

O Fortune,
like the moon
you are changeable,
always waxing
or waning;
hateful life
first oppresses
and then soothes
as fancy takes it;
poverty
and power
it melts them like ice.

Fate – monstrous
and empty,
you whirling wheel,
stand malevolent,
well-being is vain
and always fades to nothing,
shadowed
and veiled
you plague me too;
now through trickery,
I bring my bare back
to your villainy.

Fate, in health
and in virtue,
is against me,
driven on
and weighted down,
always enslaved.
So at this hour
without delay
pluck the vibrating string;
since Fate
strikes down the strong man,
everyone weep with me!

 

[MarkThompson]

I never really though of it before, but the chant “O Fortuna”, which is (I presume) unsuitable for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, is it of a satanic nature? I am wondering, because I hear it often in orchestral settings.

If I have this in the wrong place, please move it, for I didn’t know where to put it

God Bless :byzsoc:

O Fortuna, it is not a “chant,” it is a poem. I assume you are thinking of Orff’s 1936 musical setting? I am puzzled by the non-sequitur “is it of a satanic nature? I am wondering, because I hear it often in orchestral settings” – why would its being given orchestral settings make you wonder if it is “of a satanic nature”? Because it sounds spooky?

In any event, you can read the quite harmless lyrics here. The poem is a lament about the fickleness of fortune. Although it is a secular work, the idea of fortune-as-wheel (now it lifts some, now it plunges others to the bottom) was made most famous by St. Boethius in the great sixth-century Christian work Consolatio Philosophiae, The Consolation of Philosophy:
You have subjected yourself to the dominion of Fortune; it becomes you, then, as an humble subject, to obey her law. What! would you stop the rolling of her wheel? Ah! foolish mortal! do you not see, that if Fortune were permanent, she would cease to exist?
Journey treated the same theme in Wheel in the Sky:
Ooh, the wheel in the sky keeps on turnin’
I don’t know where I’ll be tomorrow

 

[LoyalViews]

O Fortuna, it is not a “chant,” it is a poem. I assume you are thinking of Orff’s 1936 musical setting? I am puzzled by the non-sequitur “is it of a satanic nature? I am wondering, because I hear it often in orchestral settings” – why would its being given orchestral settings make you wonder if it is “of a satanic nature”? Because it sounds spooky?

In any event, you can read the quite harmless lyrics here. The poem is a lament about the fickleness of fortune. Although it is a secular work, the idea of fortune-as-wheel (now it lifts some, now it plunges others to the bottom) was made most famous by St. Boethius in the great sixth-century Christian work Consolatio Philosophiae, The Consolation of Philosophy:
You have subjected yourself to the dominion of Fortune; it becomes you, then, as an humble subject, to obey her law. What! would you stop the rolling of her wheel? Ah! foolish mortal! do you not see, that if Fortune were permanent, she would cease to exist?
Journey treated the same theme in Wheel in the Sky:
Ooh, the wheel in the sky keeps on turnin’
I don’t know where I’ll be tomorrow

I know it’s not a chant, but I have heard it chanted (but not in a Gregorian chant) I have heart it done so, but not in a liturgical setting in the least. Thanks for the help. I was just wondering, as it is heard in movies and all some television shows which I have seen. Thanks everyone for helping!

 

[Spencerian]

Orff’s otherwise-impressive musical work is based on the poem collections known as, not surprisingly, the Carmina Burana.

Found in a monastery in the 1800s, these writings, mostly dating from the 11th and 12th century, were likely written by students and some clergy, for lack of a better description, for fun. The majority of the works are love songs, with some drinking and gaming songs and talks of morality as well.

They are historically interesting documents with insightful thoughts on culture at the time. But they aren’t Catholic documents that should be taken seriously for anything in the matters of faith.

 

[m134e5]

I never really though of it before, but the chant “O Fortuna”, which is (I presume) unsuitable for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, is it of a satanic nature? I am wondering, because I hear it often in orchestral settings.

If I have this in the wrong place, please move it, for I didn’t know where to put it

God Bless :byzsoc:

Whenever a region has cultural unrest, the arts reflect that unrest. The music for Carmina Burana was written in Germany shortly before World War II. Perhaps it seems satanic because it’s so repetitive and rhythmic (almost hypnotic- suggesting a loss of self-control). The minor key and dissonant chords significantly add to this effect.

The lyrics to the piece came from secular medieval songs found in a German monastery. In the middle ages, monasteries were very important in the preservation of literature (both sacred and secular). Since the printing press hadn’t been invented yet, whatever that was to be written was transcribed by the monks and kept in their library. I imagine that at some point, some monk thought those local songs were worth remembering, so they wrote them down.

I like the poetry, and I think Carl Orff did a wonderful job at setting it to music. This music isn’t appropriate for Mass though, and it was never intended to be.

 

[Erich]

Found in a monastery in the 1800s, these writings, mostly dating from the 11th and 12th century, were likely written by students and some clergy, for lack of a better description, for fun. The majority of the works are love songs, with some drinking and gaming songs and talks of morality as well.

Well, that might explain this adaptation (incidentally, also not appropriate for Mass

 

[Cavaille-Coll]

The Carmina Burana were written in the Middle Ages by certain dissident university students and seminarians known as Goliards. They were essentially parodies of chants in use by the Church, and were written and sung as a satire on the political and cultural problems of the day as well as a rejection of the authority of the Church. The Goliards were something like medieval hippies.