The Charismatic Movement

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Hey all.

I was wondering if any of you guys are part of the Charismatic Movement within the Christian Church. If any of you Catholics are involved, or any non-Pentecostal Protestants? Just wondering. For those who are not part of it, what do you think about it?

I was raised in the Assemblies of God so it’s clearly something big in our family, though I personally have yet to be blessed with the gifts of the Spirit.
 
I’m not involved with any Charismatic movement, but know some Catholics and Protestants that are. I personally don’t have any problem with the Charismatic way of worship or prayer. However, it’s not my cup of tea; I find it distracting when everyone prays simultaneously without listening to each other’s prayers.

One thing I’ve observed from some individuals involved in that movement (and I’m not trying to generalize here) is an attitude that if “you don’t faint or speak in tongues, then you have not experience the gifts of the Holy Spirit.” I’ve heard similar expressions several times from different individuals. The Holy Spirit has many gifts and we all experience them in different ways.

Saint Paul said to the Corinthians, “[t]hough I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have no charity, I am becoming as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.” (1 Cor 13:1-2)

He also said to them, “[n]ow, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?” (1 Cor 14:6)
 
As to the least of the Gifts of the Spirit (tongues) remember Paul’s warning that unless it can be understood by all it does not edify the Church and if it does not Edify the Church it is not of God.
 
I’m not involved with any Charismatic movement, but know some Catholics and Protestants that are. I personally don’t have any problem with the Charismatic way of worship or prayer. However, it’s not my cup of tea; I find it distracting when everyone prays simultaneously without listening to each other’s prayers.
You don’t have to be a full-fledged member, of course. There’s similar things that I dislike about some church services.
One thing I’ve observed from some individuals involved in that movement (and I’m not trying to generalize here) is an attitude that if “you don’t faint or speak in tongues, then you have not experience the gifts of the Holy Spirit.” I’ve heard similar expressions several times from different individuals. The Holy Spirit has many gifts and we all experience them in different ways.
Fainting is not necessarily a part of the experience, and indeed, I’m not even sure it is, I don’t know where it says that scripturally!

However, according to Pentecostalism and Charismatics, speaking in tongues is the initial physical evidence of what we call the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Without this initial physical evidence, you haven’t been baptized with the Spirit and are yet to obtain the gifts.
Saint Paul said to the Corinthians, “[t]hough I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have no charity, I am becoming as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.” (1 Cor 13:1-2)

He also said to them, “[n]ow, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?” (1 Cor 14:6)
I think you’ve misunderstood what Paul was talking about. The context of 1 Corinthians 14 is in a church that has completely abused the gift, and it must be rectified. The Corinthians were known for exaggerating with everything bestowed upon them. Indeed, they abused Holy Communion eagerly enough.

But the context of 1 Cor. 14:6 is about public exhortation of tongues. Indeed no Charismatic would (or should) deny that tongues spoken aloud must be followed by an interpretation. Otherwise it is simply chaos. But there is a distinction between that, and the private prayer tongues, which is spoken between the speaker and God.

This is why he concludes the chapter by saying this:

“Therefore, my brothers, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. 40But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way.” (1 Cor. 14:39-40).

Evidence of the private prayer language comes when he says, shortly after speaking about edification of the church, he says:

*“If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God.” *(verse 28)

And I would absolutely agree. I’ve heard of even Assemblies of God churches abusing the gift by having absolute chaos in the worship service. People uttering aloud and making the service absolutely uncomfortable. The correct formula of public tongues should be a special amount of time allotted separately, where people who are ready to speak come forward and begin to speak, after which the interpreter (or the speaker himself if he can interpret) translates for the rest of the congregation.

Paul doesn’t downplay speaking in tongues. Indeed, he says “I thank God I speak in tongues more than all of you!” (proving also that we all can receive this gift, the private prayer language). If we take this approach, then we must be wary of Holy Communion because Paul took a similar approach.

And I wouldn’t surrender Holy Communion for anything in the world. I adore it and indeed think that Protestants don’t do it enough!

God Bless You :).
 
Does anyone know of a video or audio clip of a person speaking in tongues that I could listen to? I don’t have a clue what this is like. Is it possible to tell if someone is only acting?
 
I went to a Catholic charismatic meeting once. During the weekend, they offered an opportunity to pray for, and have people pray for me to receive, the gifts of the Holy Spirit. I jumped up, to the amazement of the people that went with me, and headed to where they said go.

I heard others speaking in tongues, even though there were no interpreters. I was praying sincerely and those who were praying for me were close by. They encouraged me to let it go. They said it would start with a stammering. They ‘whispered’ all kinds of encouragement to me.

After a length of time, I’m not sure how long, they finally told me it might not happen the first time that I prayed for the gift of tongues. I said, ‘I wasn’t praying for the gift of tongues.’ They leaned back and looked at me surprised and said, ‘what were you praying for?’ I said, ‘I was praying for the gifts the Holy Spirit wanted me to have and prayed how I thought the gifts of wisdom and knowledge might be more useful to me in my walk, but only if it was according to His will.’ I could tell they didn’t know what to say at that point.

To be perfectly honest, I think my prayer was answered. My understanding of scriptures grew immensely. My faith grew stronger and I understood my faith and scriptures through the Tradition of the Church more clearly.

Continuing with being honest in explaining this, I didn’t doubt people’s beliefs or sincerity, but it seem to be ‘peer pressure’ driven in some respects. Maybe it was just me. 🤷

Anyways, now I prefer a regular Mass and my wife prefers a Charismatic Mass. We both converted in 1985 and she was from the Assembly of God Church. The trouble is, there are no Charismatic Masses offered in our area. The closest ones available are 100 miles away. I wouldn’t mind attending a Charismatic Mass with her, they were enjoyable, but I don’t see them as ‘necessary’. I can be moved in a regular Mass.
 
I miss the Assembly Church and wish there was a Charismatic Mass here.
 
I don’t like it. I converted from Protestantism in part to get away from this kind of emotionalism and manipulation. I do not think it ought to be allowed or encouraged. In my experience, the attitude taken by many self-identified charismatic Christians (Catholic or otherwise) seems contrary to 1 John 4:1, where we are told to test spirits to see whether they are from God.
 
Don’t care for it…have no desire to be associated with it whatsoever
Hey all.

I was wondering if any of you guys are part of the Charismatic Movement within the Christian Church. If any of you Catholics are involved, or any non-Pentecostal Protestants? Just wondering. For those who are not part of it, what do you think about it?

I was raised in the Assemblies of God so it’s clearly something big in our family, though I personally have yet to be blessed with the gifts of the Spirit.
 
I’ve been in the charismatic catholic movement at times in my life and have some thoughts to share on it. Charismatic expressions of worship are in some ways analogous to sex! It’s is certainly a God given gift, but it is one that can be badly abused. That potential for abuse is NOT a reason to label the whole thing ‘bad’ (or ‘dirty’ in the analogy).

The weakness that is often manifest in charismatic communities is an excessive reliance on enthusiasm, manifested in signs and wonders and charismatic forms of worship. These are peripheral to our faith, not central. I’m fairly certain St. Paul referred to tongues as the “least” of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. If not grounded in Tradition, Scripture and obdient to legitimate authority, charismatic groups are easily exploitable by leaders with selfish agendas. When such groups ARE grounded in solid teaching, the community worship is truly amazing. I’m not personally gifted with tongues though I was certainly open to it. But there is something utterly unique about being in the midst of the fired up group of believers all singing in a harmony while uttering noises no one but God himself can decipher. Truly otherwordly.

Experience it if you have the chance. Just remember, it’s dessert, not your veggies.
 
Here in the bluegrass, we have many “holiness” churches. One of my cousin’s belongs to one where the pressure to speak in tongues is enormous. If one does not speak in tongues then one is not considered a ‘true’ member of the church. Clearly this sort of thing has little to do with the gifts of the spirit.

Tongues is the least of the gifts, but it is also the easiest one to fake. I’m not saying that everyone (or anyone) who speaks in tongues is faking, but it is a lot harder to fake your way through being a faith healer

“B B B B Bob just fell on his B B B Butt”
 
I grew up in charismatic churches. I was always taught to be careful to be against any one telling me that you HAD to speak in tongues or you did not have the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit will manifest in the way you most need if you just let Him!

I like how Prodigal Son1 put it here:
I said, ‘I was praying for the gifts the Holy Spirit wanted me to have and prayed how I thought the gifts of wisdom and knowledge might be more useful to me in my walk, but only if it was according to His will.’
That is how it should be. God can and will do amazing things if we only let him and don’t try to put Him in some box. Yes some people get over excited and over emotional. By the same token, in non-charismatic churches some people forget they are supposed to be adoring and reverent and fall asleep instead.

“Huh what? I wasn’t snoring! I was making that noise to count my blessings!”

I think the Churches of all sorts need to stop having Charismatic boxes and Traditional boxes and let God do what God wants to do in us instead of what we wanna do.
 
I’ve been in the charismatic catholic movement at times in my life and have some thoughts to share on it. Charismatic expressions of worship are in some ways analogous to sex! It’s is certainly a God given gift, but it is one that can be badly abused. That potential for abuse is NOT a reason to label the whole thing ‘bad’ (or ‘dirty’ in the analogy).

The weakness that is often manifest in charismatic communities is an excessive reliance on enthusiasm, manifested in signs and wonders and charismatic forms of worship. These are peripheral to our faith, not central. I’m fairly certain St. Paul referred to tongues as the “least” of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. If not grounded in Tradition, Scripture and obdient to legitimate authority, charismatic groups are easily exploitable by leaders with selfish agendas. When such groups ARE grounded in solid teaching, the community worship is truly amazing. I’m not personally gifted with tongues though I was certainly open to it. But there is something utterly unique about being in the midst of the fired up group of believers all singing in a harmony while uttering noises no one but God himself can decipher. Truly otherwordly.

Experience it if you have the chance. Just remember, it’s dessert, not your veggies.
Good assessment.

The Catholic Charismatic movement (which is not really a movement) is actually Catholic Charismatic Renewal. It is all about personal renewal - in one’s faith and belief. The renewal is often manifested in the mind - renewal of the mind that leads oneself to be a living sacrifice that’s pleasing and acceptable to God. Some of the effects of this renewal is a new awareness of sins, wanting to avoid them, and turning 180 degrees from them (repentance); new love for the Church, the Magestrium and the Pope; new love and attraction to the Bible and prayer; new love for the Sacrament and an acute sense of wanting to do the work of love for God’s people.

Most Catholics in the Renewal have past history of being lapsed, nominal and many times non-practicing Catholics. Through the Renewal, they were ‘touched’ so to speak, by the Holy Spirit, and discovered their lives began to change from the old to the new of loving God.

It is often correct to say that good Catholics do NOT need the Renewal, because they are already renewed; already good pious practicing Catholics. That is why Catholics in this category do not like the Renewal and have nothing to do with it. Why? Because they do not need it because they are already good Catholics. You do not need renewal if you are already good; you just maintain it.

Sadly, what people know about the Renewal is tongue. Few realize that not all in the Renewal have tongue or exercise it, much less emphasize it. Most people seem to associate this Renewal with Protestants Pentecostal/Charismatic Church which is not the case at all. Catholic Charismatic Renewal has nothing to do with Protestantism. There are no such things as holy laughter, rupture, revival, and what you have in Protestantism.

Catholics in the CCR love the Pope, Mother Mary, pray the Rosary, receive and participate in regular Sacraments; believe in purgatory; pray for saints’ intercession and if possible, love to make the pilgrimage to the Vatican, holy Catholic shrines or Holy land. So if the OP wants to know, hope this helps.

God bless.
 
Most Catholics in the Renewal have past history of being lapsed, nominal and many times non-practicing Catholics. Through the Renewal, they were ‘touched’ so to speak, by the Holy Spirit, and discovered their lives began to change from the old to the new of loving God.
That’s why when people come out from sin, unfaithfulness, unbelieving and not practicing, they would feel great sense of wanting to live out a new found life in the religion. Since they believe that it is the Holy Spirit who moves to bring about the renewal in them, their new found zeal will result in an action that bring to magnify the Holy Spirit in their lives. One of the examples of the action of the Holy Spirit as mentioned in the Bible is power – to overcome weaknesses and sins, and to bring about God’s message to others (evangelization). Some of this power cannot be explained and attributed to human rationale or effort; that’s why it is Charismatic – the action of the Holy Spirit, and yet, the result is always for the good of the believers.

To many Catholics in the Renewal, this (repentance and evangelization) has become a passion for them. Some of them seem to come from nowhere and have become very active in the church and even personal work of charity and evangelization, all because of the Holy Spirit. They experienced the touch or love of God that brought about their own conversion, and in turn they just cannot contain the desire to share that love to the others.

In some instances, though an exception rather the rule, this new found zeal can be problematic because of being unable to handle it properly. In their haste or impatience, they often would go out on their own ways to do what they want to do to serve the Lord. In reality they need the Church to guide them which in many ways done by mature members of the church and sympathetic priests and clergies.

People responsible for the well-being of Renewal can be traced right from the top hierarchy – from the Vatican. In the early days, some of these personalities included the late Cardinal Suenen who was given the job of the ‘Cardinal of the Holy Spirit’ and Bishop Paul Cordez (now a Cardinal) who was responsible for the laity. Even the then Cardinal Ratzinger (now the Pope) being a close theologian to the then Pope JP II was very much involved in overseeing this movement. Pope JP II was in constant contact with the renewal leaders world-wide and beside giving personal pastoral letters and messages, he always made it a point to meet them once a year when they converged for a meeting in Rome. So the CCR is not something that came out of the blue but always has been in the heart of Rome.

The Renewal will cease to be an exclusive Catholic Charismatic Renewal once the Church is renewed into a people whose hearts are on fire for God. Today it is less obvious than perhaps thirty years ago where now most Catholics have seen and experienced it and move on in life accordingly. The Renewal is a grace of God and therefore, it does not necessary manifest only in the CCR but in all strata of the Church, in one way or the other. This means that Catholics who are not in the CCR per se also experience some forms of grace that bring about their own renewal in faith and belief, and they are as zealous and faithful, if not more.

God bless.
 
Sadly, what people know about the Renewal is tongue. Few realize that not all in the Renewal have tongue or exercise it, much less emphasize it. Most people seem to associate this Renewal with Protestants Pentecostal/Charismatic Church which is not the case at all. Catholic Charismatic Renewal has nothing to do with Protestantism. There are no such things as holy laughter, rupture, revival, and what you have in Protestantism.

Catholics in the CCR love the Pope, Mother Mary, pray the Rosary, receive and participate in regular Sacraments; believe in purgatory; pray for saints’ intercession and if possible, love to make the pilgrimage to the Vatican, holy Catholic shrines or Holy land. So if the OP wants to know, hope this helps.

God bless.
I never denied that Charismatic Catholics believed in all the doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church. “Charismatic” does not mean “Pentecostal.” Pentecostalism is a movement within the Charismatic group, which encompasses a variety of Christian Churches. There exists Lutheran charismatics, for instance, if I recall correctly.

The Charismatics, I should add, have all rejected Holy Laughter and Rupture, and indeed the Vineyard authorities expelled the Toronto-based church for accepting such nonsense.

Pentecostals don’t “emphasize” tongues. Pentecostals simply believe that after salvation, there exists a separate experience called the “Baptism of the Holy Spirit” whose initial physical evidence is speaking in tongues. Incidentally this “speaking in tongues” is not the same as the public tongues that Paul spoke about in 1 Corinthians 14.
 
When the Apostles spoke in tongues after Pentecost, everyone heard them in their native tongue. Seems to have been a reverse of what happened at the tower of Babylon.
 
When the Apostles spoke in tongues after Pentecost, everyone heard them in their native tongue. Seems to have been a reverse of what happened at the tower of Babylon.
Yeah but there is more than one verse in the Book of Acts, you know.
 
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