The choir and communion

[seagal]

Thank you all for your (name removed by moderator)ut. You helped me to consider some other options I wouldn’t have thought of. Right now our choir is small, about 10 people yesterday. We’ve been without a choir for a couple of years, (and we’re a cathedral parish!) but we’re starting up again, thank God. This summer we had 4 ordinations and an installment of a new bishop so a “diocesan” choir was formed with members from different parishes nearby. During the new bishop’s installation there was a very long silence at the beginning of communion while the choir was receiving and it just didn’t feel right to me. In fact, communion was almost half over before the choir had all come back and started to sing. I thought surely there must be a better way to go about this, and thank you fellow CAFers for suggesting some.

 

[pnewton]

Thank you all for your (name removed by moderator)ut. You helped me to consider some other options I wouldn’t have thought of. Right now our choir is small, about 10 people yesterday.

FYI - We do this like you do it. If there is a choir, there will have to be a time to allow the choir to receive communion. I have found that receiving at the end doesn’t work well. Sometimes we have had to quit in mid verse or stop early. Once we were missed. Receiving communion is no obligatory, but the choir is supposed to be given the opportunity to receive communion. Yes the silence at first is a little strange at first, but silence should not be strange or unknown in Mass. We also have silence at the end, during the last part of purifying the vessels. Our bishop instructed us to cut the meditation down to a single verse to allow this. I will sometimes fudge by starting it early and doing two verses when the song needs it (before the last communicant has returned), but I always honor the time of silence.

 

[seagal]

FYI - We do this like you do it. If there is a choir, there will have to be a time to allow the choir to receive communion. I have found that receiving at the end doesn’t work well. Sometimes we have had to quit in mid verse or stop early. Once we were missed. Receiving communion is no obligatory, but the choir is supposed to be given the opportunity to receive communion. Yes the silence at first is a little strange at first, but silence should not be strange or unknown in Mass. We also have silence at the end, during the last part of purifying the vessels. Our bishop instructed us to cut the meditation down to a single verse to allow this. I will sometimes fudge by starting it early and doing two verses when the song needs it (before the last communicant has returned), but I always honor the time of silence.

I agree silence is an important part of the Mass, but there should be music of some kind for communion. As I said in an earlier post, the CBW II says music should be played from the time the priest takes communion, but often there is no music until the communion procession is well underway, sometimes almost half over. Personally, I think silence is more important after communion, for reflection and meditation.

 

[leitis]

We’re fortunate to have two pianists in our choir: one regular pianist and one to step in part way through communion so the first can recieve. They’re very good at making the quick transition between them at the end of a verse or refrain, when necessary. The singers in the choir stagger who goes so that there are always enough voices. I hope that makes sense…

 

[seagal]

You are lucky! Our organist would like to retire, he’s been doing it for at least 20 years now, often for 2 or 3 masses a weekend! But there’s no one to step in for him.

 

[pnewton]

As I said in an earlier post, the CBW II says music should be played from the time the priest takes communion, but often there is no music until the communion procession is well underway, sometimes almost half over. Personally, I think silence is more important after communion, for reflection and meditation.

I know. It just doesn’t work for us to go last. I think having the choir have the opportunity to receive takes precedence. We always have silence at the end, so it is not an either or situation.

 

[daeve]

This has recently become a problem for us. We always went first while the music director played. The new music director however, announces the hymn and starts it right away. Everyone is still standing up behind the altar when he starts. He told us to just go to communion and he’ll be singing, then when we get back just join in. That’s very awkward, especially when there’s only a cantor. Yesterday, I was the only one there, and the Saturday Mass and the 11 am Sunday Mass always just have a cantor.

Last week there were 5 of the 8 choir members at Mass, and the 3 women went at the beginning like he said to do, but two men had not been to choir practice so they didn’t know what he wanted us to do. They went we got back, and we just started singing with no time in between. The men went then, and climbed over us to get back on our little stand. We don’t have a choir loft at all, so the first few pews on the left hand side have been removed, and we have a little L-shaped latform with an ambo and a couple benches.

We have a small number of attendees, so one Communion song is more than enough most of the time. I’ve gotten to Communion only one time out of the last 4 weeks, because the other 3 times, I was alone. It just feels sloppy to join him in the middle of the song. I’d like to have the music director play the Communion song softly until we get back from Communion – frequently new to this congregation – then we all start together. I have a stage background and thought this just bothered me, but the other choir members have mentioned it too. This new director played for us a few times this summer, but just started in the job on October 11. We’re still working things out, but I don’t like not receiving Communion. I don’t really have the opportunity to go to another Mass because of family obligations, unless I go on Sunday evening. There are two in my part of town, but I don’t really like going to either of them.

 

[NPC]

I don’t want it to seem like I’m blowing my own trumpet on this subject but what about the system I mentioned earlier in the thread regarding my own choir, where those who wish to receive Holy Communion go to the Blessed Sacrament chapel after the recessional hymn and the priest or EMHC will give them Holy Communion. It seems to me that a lot of you are experiencing logistical problems - whether it be to long a silence before or after Communion, or because half the voices will be absent from the choir at any one time, or because the organist won’t be able to receive Holy Communion. If the choir were to receive after Mass, then it would be of benefit for the congregation because they would have music to accompany their procession to the altar to receive, the choir will be there in its entirety to sing as much as the director of music wishes them to, there will not be a rush back to the gallery/choir area from the altar rails to begin singing asap, and choir members would have proper time (as long as they like really) to reflect and give thanks to the Lord which they may not have if they are compelled to start singing directly after receiving. Just my :twocents: again…

 

[daeve]

I don’t want it to seem like I’m blowing my own trumpet on this subject but what about the system I mentioned earlier in the thread regarding my own choir, where those who wish to receive Holy Communion go to the Blessed Sacrament chapel after the recessional hymn and the priest or EMHC will give them Holy Communion. It seems to me that a lot of you are experiencing logistical problems - whether it be to long a silence before or after Communion, or because half the voices will be absent from the choir at any one time, or because the organist won’t be able to receive Holy Communion. If the choir were to receive after Mass, then it would be of benefit for the congregation because they would have music to accompany their procession to the altar to receive, the choir will be there in its entirety to sing as much as the director of music wishes them to, there will not be a rush back to the gallery/choir area from the altar rails to begin singing asap, and choir members would have proper time (as long as they like really) to reflect and give thanks to the Lord which they may not have if they are compelled to start singing directly after receiving. Just my :twocents: again…

This sounds like a good solution, and I’ll bring it up on Wednesday at choir practice…if anybody else makes it. There are only 8 of us to start, and we’ve been hit by the flu pretty hard. Although I’m the oldest member, and the one with health issues, I’m the only one who hasn’t had any illness at all this fall. Two of them have been sick for weeks.

 

[seagal]

I don’t want it to seem like I’m blowing my own trumpet on this subject but what about the system I mentioned earlier in the thread regarding my own choir, where those who wish to receive Holy Communion go to the Blessed Sacrament chapel after the recessional hymn and the priest or EMHC will give them Holy Communion. It seems to me that a lot of you are experiencing logistical problems - whether it be to long a silence before or after Communion, or because half the voices will be absent from the choir at any one time, or because the organist won’t be able to receive Holy Communion. If the choir were to receive after Mass, then it would be of benefit for the congregation because they would have music to accompany their procession to the altar to receive, the choir will be there in its entirety to sing as much as the director of music wishes them to, there will not be a rush back to the gallery/choir area from the altar rails to begin singing asap, and choir members would have proper time (as long as they like really) to reflect and give thanks to the Lord which they may not have if they are compelled to start singing directly after receiving. Just my :twocents: again…

If there’s nothing liturgically wrong with receiving communion in this way, then it does seem like the best option. It just seems a little odd to me to not receive in the context of the Mass, but that’s only my opinion.

 

[benedictgal]

If there’s nothing liturgically wrong with receiving communion in this way, then it does seem like the best option. It just seems a little odd to me to not receive in the context of the Mass, but that’s only my opinion.

Although I do not know for certain, that might be the way that communion for the choir is handled at St. Peter’s Basilica. You don’t notice the choir going to communion at all during Mass so this may be how they handle the situation over there.

 

[zab]

It doesn’t seem right to me for the choir not to receive Communion during the Mass and to receive after Mass has ended.

 

[KarenElissa]

It doesn’t seem right to me for the choir not to receive Communion during the Mass and to receive after Mass has ended.

I agree, while it may be technically ok, it would just seem weird not to be able to receive with everyone else.

 

[NPC]

I agree, while it may be technically ok, it would just seem weird not to be able to receive with everyone else.

Of course I respect your opinion - your choir, as you said earlier, receives Holy Communion directly after the congregation, and in general that works for your choir (although you did mention that there are still choristers who don’t get sufficient time to pray after receiving).

However, while this may be the ideal - I’m sure everyone would like to receive with the rest of the congregation - as other posters have said, it is often not logistically possible. I can see that it might be possible to receive Communion at Communion time if the choir sings near the sanctuary area, but in my own case (and others, I’m sure) the choir sings from the choir gallery which is at the back of the church - in my case, a very big cathedral. If we were to go downstairs and process to the altar rails to receive from the “Table of the Lord” (which is another ideal), we would probably end up doubling the Communion procession, which is already quite long.

I have played in other churches where the choir (and organist!) receives Communion before singing. In one particular church, the choir director was a priest and he would have a ciborium of sacred hosts with a lighted candle beside it up in the gallery for the duration of the Mass. We received Holy Communion immediately and began the music straightaway. This is a situation I’m not happy with. I mean, we’ve just received the Body of Christ - the greatest gift in the world - and we don’t even get a personal moment to say “thanks”!

It seems that no system for the choir and Communion will get all-round support, but in my humble opinion, receiving after Mass works very well. It means that I can devote all the time I want to the Lord in thanksgiving. There are a number of other benefits which I outlined in my previous post, which I need not repeat.

 

[mcmitton]

Good posts!

Our sanctuary is poorly designed as music and choir areas [per se] do not exist in the current church arrangement. I am told that the older arrangement prior to additions being built there was a choir loft, and communion was given to the choir "up there The newest arrangement of the sanctuary turned the whole space around 90 degrees and now has the altar facing east, no loft, and no thought given to choir space and and no thoughtful space for instruments.

Several pews were removed to accomodate an organ. The organ had been replaced by the time we came here in 1999 … and replaced with Roland keyboard with a very nice piano voice [perfect for modern secular rock music, entertainment stage performances, but very few organ voice. It is *most unsuitable for sacred music, other than one piano voice group].

When we have two instrumentalists one of whom serves as cantor, communion for both is not a problem, as we switch “control” so one at a time can commune.

When there is only one instrumentalist [who does not sing], he goes to the altar area and receives communion along with the servers, but after the ministers. So, the music starts about the time the assembly begins their communion line.

When our choir sings, Advent, Christmas, Holy Week, and limited other occasions, we occupy a forward section, and it is positioned diagonally referencing the right angles of the main assembly area. The keyboard is on the wall behind this section of pews. Our guitarist/cantor also has her area there and a small sound board is located there as well.

The aisle is somewhat constricted for passage in front of the keyboard, and extracting the pianist [me] and/or the guitarist from the tangle of cords, music stands, etc., is dicey. We exchange turns leaving that area to receive the Sacrament, so the music continues.

Add the choir in service: Choir communes first, sometimes last. Coordination with the ministers has been such a problem [they forget us] is not an option.

I really like your idea of receiving the Sacrament after the mass, in the Blessed Sacrament area. While doing it this way, the choir is “detached” from the assembly and this does not foster unity. Is this a problem? The idea of not having to hastily consume, of having time to reflect and pray after communion is soooo wonderful.

This is TMI. And I apologize for the length of this post. You must sense how awkward and disrupting all of our “ways” are for us.

Thanks for listening, and I’ll approach the choir regarding receiving together after the mass is over. If they are in agreement, then I’ll ask our priest.

P.S. I just realized … when the service has only one instrumentalist, he usually has a psalmist sing. She could certainly start the communion hymn with the piano, and while he communes, she could continue a capella!!!

 

[ProVobis]

Although I do not know for certain, that might be the way that communion for the choir is handled at St. Peter’s Basilica. You don’t notice the choir going to communion at all during Mass so this may be how they handle the situation over there.

I’m wondering if some of the members in that choir are even Catholic. I know at Holy Name Cathedral in Chicago they hire some outside group to sing. Organist isn’t necessarily Catholic either.

 

[benedictgal]

I’m wondering if some of the members in that choir are even Catholic. I know at Holy Name Cathedral in Chicago they hire some outside group to sing. Organist isn’t necessarily Catholic either.

I am referring to the big St. Peter’s, as in the one at the Vatican. I do believe that they are all Catholic. There is also the diocesan choir for the Diocese of Rome. I have not seen any of them going up for Holy Communion at Papal Masses, although I am sure that alternative arrangments are made for them, as well.

 

[OraLabora]

I sing in a small Gregorian schola; we used to sing in a single parish once a month, but now we have as mission to bring Gregorian Chant to the entire community, a small city of about 100,000, and its surroundings. So in the past the practice was that we’d receive first as we were in the sanctuary to sing, and either the EMHC would bring us communion, or the priest would, first. Then we’d sing as everyone else received.

Now that we rotate parishes, it tends to vary depending on where the choir sings. Last time we were in the choir loft and by the time the EMHC made it to us everyone else had received and we sang first.

I do feel it’s always kind of an awkward process. We also had a case where the EMHC forgot us, and the priest gave us communion after Mass.

For the communion antiphon (we use the Graduale Romanum) we usually have with us 3 verses of psalmody; we will use 1, 2 or 3 (with repetition of the antiphon between and after the last one), depending on how big the congregation is and how long it takes for them to receive. Usually we end up doing 2, but if the antiphon is longer or the congregation smaller, we’ve gotten away with only one. Rarely do we need the third.