The chotki.

[Stephentlig]

Sorry, every reference I can find goes, “Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.”

We are not “the” sinner, we are “a” sinner.

Sorry, but a lot of references I find have ‘‘the’’ sinner, but also there are many references I find that is ‘‘a’’ sinner too, its either/or I suppose

bookrags.com/wiki/Jesus_Prayer
briefphone.com/search/+Lord+Jesus+Christ,+Son+of+God+have+mercy+on+me+the+sinner+…
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Prayer
orthodoxwiki.org/Jesus_Prayer

 

[LoyalViews]

I am adding nothing, this is the way it was taught to me.

My main point in posting though was to show that the fuller form ends in “a sinner.” not “the sinner.” as was posted by another user.

It was taught to me this way too “Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the Living God, Have Mercy on Me, a Sinner”

it does end in ‘‘the sinner’’.

One of the prayers I’ve heard and I’m not sure if this is tied in with the prayer or is the longest form of it is…’‘Lord Jesus Christ, Son and Word of the Living God, through the prayers of Thy Pure Mother, and of all the Saints, have mercy on us and save us.’’

But, can it not be true, that there are many renditions of the prayer, like there are of the Twenty-Third Psalm? Is it any less of a prayer if we say “the sinner” or “a sinner”? God knows that we are praying. Though saying a prayer properly is important, does it really matter if we say “the sinner” or “a sinner”. Is there any proper way to speak English?

 

[Stephentlig]

It was taught to me this way too “Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the Living God, Have Mercy on Me, a Sinner”

But, can it not be true, that there are many renditions of the prayer, like there are of the Twenty-Third Psalm? Is it any less of a prayer if we say “the sinner” or “a sinner”? God knows that we are praying. Though saying a prayer properly is important, does it really matter if we say “the sinner” or “a sinner”. Is there any proper way to speak English?

Of course not, but the way the Lord taught to me was ‘‘the sinner’’ and thats how I pray it, I am not arguing which is better to say it or not to say it, I am simply pointing out the original translation of the prayer, a sinner or the sinner doesnt matter, its still the prayer.

 

[LoyalViews]

Of course not, but the way the Lord taught to me was ‘‘the sinner’’ and thats how I pray it, I am not arguing which is better to say it or not to say it, I am simply pointing out the original translation of the prayer, a sinner or the sinner doesnt matter, its still the prayer.

Ah, I understand. God Bless :byzsoc:

 

[mariyka]

It was taught to me this way too “Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the Living God, Have Mercy on Me, a Sinner”

But, can it not be true, that there are many renditions of the prayer, like there are of the Twenty-Third Psalm? Is it any less of a prayer if we say “the sinner” or “a sinner”? God knows that we are praying. Though saying a prayer properly is important, does it really matter if we say “the sinner” or “a sinner”. Is there any proper way to speak English?

Good question. In Ukrainian, there are no articles. So the prayer ends with “…on me, sinner”.

 

[Diak]

Good question. In Ukrainian, there are no articles. So the prayer ends with “…on me, sinner”.

The same holds true for Old Slavonic as Mariyka has well stated in Ukrainian, namely it is singular with no article.

 

[Aramis]

Slavonic and Russian, (and I would presume, Ukrainian) have a presumption of a lone adjectival form of a verb having the meaning “who does ___”…
plus the implied verbs of being with adjectival constructions…

it ould seem to be best " who sin."

given “Господи Іисусь Христь Сынь Божий помилуй мѧ грешиаго.” and my russian slovari… I’m not certain of the slavonic pronoun мѧ, but it’s close to the russian мы (we/us)… looking it up on wictionary, it’s We.

So, we wind up with “Good Lord Jesus Christ who is Son of God have mercy on us who sin.”

 

[Trilor]

I have a 100 knot Chotki, with beads every 10 knots.
I pray the Apostles’ Creed on the cross, then the Jesus Prayer on the knots. On the beads, however, I say the Anima Christi prayer.

 

[Aramis]

found a better (more academic) resource for мѧ which marks it as singular accusative.

мѧ грешиаго
making it “me who sins”… but I’m not finding the specific conjugation of грешить to sin with the declension -аго but ago appears to be 1st person genitive.

So, “I who sin.”

There is a lack of easy resources on OCS declensions online…

 

[Cecilianus]

it does end in ‘‘the sinner’’.

One of the prayers I’ve heard and I’m not sure if this is tied in with the prayer or is the longest form of it is…’‘Lord Jesus Christ, Son and Word of the Living God, through the prayers of Thy Pure Mother, and of all the Saints, have mercy on us and save us.’’

I read that prayer or something very similar in Fr. Nomikos Vaporis’ “Orthodox Prayer Book”; he gave that as a non-penitential prayer to use the chotki for, and the Jesus Prayer as the penitential version. (Of course, doing the penitential version all the time would hardly be a problem.) I use the non-penitential form, sometimes (because of my Roman roots) with the alteration “Lord Jesus Christ, Son and Word of the living God, through the intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary and all the saints, have mercy and save us.” Grammatically that flows a little bit more smoothly than what Fr. Vaporis had, to my ears.

 

[Cecilianus]

How am I properly supposed to do the prostation on the beads? (I have a 100-knot chotki with beads in-between every 10 knots.) Am I supposed to touch the floor with my finger starting from the standing position (as Father has everyone do before serving Divine Liturgy), or fall down from a standing position to both knees and touch our foreheads to the floor (as everyone in our parish does when venerating the Cross on the 3rd Sunday of Great Lent), or something different?

 

[skinny_pumpkin]

How am I properly supposed to do the prostation on the beads? (I have a 100-knot chotki with beads in-between every 10 knots.) Am I supposed to touch the floor with my finger starting from the standing position (as Father has everyone do before serving Divine Liturgy), or fall down from a standing position to both knees and touch our foreheads to the floor (as everyone in our parish does when venerating the Cross on the 3rd Sunday of Great Lent), or something different?

Either or both. The Russian tradition had monastics doing full prostrations for each recitation of the prayer. Something to keep in mind. The prayer is supposed to be “noetic”.

The purpose of "iconography", prostrations, and the simplicity of the prayer is to aid in eliminating your content.  Thus, icons aid in replacing your imagination, which is discouraged (and considered potentially dangerous).   Prostrations work in the same manner.

Praying by using the whole person visually, voice, body, and focus of the intellect on the words of the prayer in a repetitive and ritualized manner is “designed” to quiet your mind/self/nous and humble it before God.