The Church and Space Colonisation

[missionarygirl]

It sounds a bit like Poul Anderson’s (sp?) The High Crusade. The plot is that an alien starship lands just outside of a 14th century English village and it gets taken over by the villagers (including at least one priest). I don’t remember much of the plot but at the end they are found by an Earth starship (it would be from our future).

ps.for anyone else intersited and haven’t heard Andre Norton on March 17, 2005.

Wait - the alien starship is taken over by the villagers, not the other way around? That’s a twist.

 

[tabycat]

Wait - the alien starship is taken over by the villagers, not the other way around? That’s a twist./QUOTE

It. been a few years since I’ve read the book. The aliens attacked the village and were mostly killed because they (the aliens) thought that they the more advanced technoligy and the villagers didn’t know that they had to lose (no ray guns).

 

[tabycat]

It is H2O at the north pole, dry ice or CO2 in the south.

That’s still a LOT of energy, though. One wonders if they have a nuke reactor socked away for shipment.

ICXC NIKA

I hope that they do have nuke reactor to ship out to the ‘wild blue (black?) younder’.

 

[tabycat]

::nun1: By the way, IMHO, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine dealed with religion the best, tho not very well. :tiphat:

 

[john78]

lol everyone wants to get off Planet Earth so bad, as if Mars would be any better ?

all that would happen is we " humans " would move our problems from one planet to the next. It would just be on a different planet.

Though i do not think anyone has fully sent any real top knotch probing equipment to i guess use sonar to get into the layers of mars to search for things, fossils, what ever.

I suppose there are plenty of germs and microbes on mars to some extent, why that is fascinating is beyond me…

Terraforming a planet would be controversial within an of itself because eventually someone is going to say who are “we” to play “god”. Same thing with cloning, just because can doesnt mean we should.

But why Terraform another planet when it is obvious “we” cant even take care of our own ?

and then who is going to be high and mighty to decide who can and can not travel to mars ?

do we let the poor travel for free ?

Or do we send the most intelligent and elites ?

The Catholic faith, God; has no boundaries so I wouldnt worry about being able to worship God on Mars…

Lets pretend Mars is ready now, plenty of water, air, good atmosphere, ready for people to go to bingo bango right now today.

It would just take a few sufferable years to get there is all and some radiation from space, so everyone survives the trip, then what ?

How is the corruption, and problems we face on this planet not going to eventually happen on another, how is over population, pollution, etc, not going to happen on Mars ?

I figure as nice of an idea Mars is it is really a waste of time when reality here on Earth even with the problems it has is worth fighting for and fixing, and protecting.

a fun topic though.

 

[tabycat]

lol everyone wants to get off Planet Earth so bad, as if Mars would be any better ?

all that would happen is we " humans " would move our problems from one planet to the next. It would just be on a different planet.

Though i do not think anyone has fully sent any real top knotch probing equipment to i guess use sonar to get into the layers of mars to search for things, fossils, what ever.

I suppose there are plenty of germs and microbes on mars to some extent, why that is fascinating is beyond me…

Terraforming a planet would be controversial within an of itself because eventually someone is going to say who are “we” to play “god”. Same thing with cloning, just because can doesnt mean we should.

But why Terraform another planet when it is obvious “we” cant even take care of our own ?

and then who is going to be high and mighty to decide who can and can not travel to mars ?

do we let the poor travel for free ?

Or do we send the most intelligent and elites ?

The Catholic faith, God; has no boundaries so I wouldnt worry about being able to worship God on Mars…

Lets pretend Mars is ready now, plenty of water, air, good atmosphere, ready for people to go to bingo bango right now today.

It would just take a few sufferable years to get there is all and some radiation from space, so everyone survives the trip, then what ?

How is the corruption, and problems we face on this planet not going to eventually happen on another, how is over population, pollution, etc, not going to happen on Mars ?

I figure as nice of an idea Mars is it is really a waste of time when reality here on Earth even with the problems it has is worth fighting for and fixing, and protecting.

a fun topic though.

It isn’t just Mars, It’s also mining the astroids. I’ve heard (or rather read) why we shouldn’t have gone anywere (like America).

 

[john78]

ah yes i have heard about the mining of asteroids very interesting, so when we deplete our planet now we can harvest what we need from asteroids, brilliant ! and on top of this, i have heard that there is a company which is going to go ahead with attempting this mining, and it is said to not even come close to being profitable, my guess is that it is merely to see if it can be done.

Space exploration, minining for resources, heck, string theory are all fun topics to me.

 

[Alberti_Devoveo]

ah yes i have heard about the mining of asteroids very interesting, so when we deplete our planet now we can harvest what we need from asteroids, brilliant ! and on top of this, i have heard that there is a company which is going to go ahead with attempting this mining, and it is said to not even come close to being profitable, my guess is that it is merely to see if it can be done.

Space exploration, minining for resources, heck, string theory are all fun topics to me.

The closest asteroids to earth are between and 10 and 44 million kilometers away. It will not be profitable to do this mining for quite some time.

 

[tabycat]

The closest asteroids to earth are between and 10 and 44 million kilometers away. It will not be profitable to do this mining for quite some time.

There are some asteroids that do come closer then 10 million kilometers to Earth. A few have come between the Earth and the Moon (and not hit us).

 

[Alberti_Devoveo]

There are some asteroids that do come closer then 10 million kilometers to Earth. A few have come between the Earth and the Moon (and not hit us).

Yes, there are asteroids that come close to earth (even landing on our little blue/green planet). However, those that are moving by us are not readily mine-able because they are moving past us too quickly. The ones 10 million + km are at least somewhat stationary.

 

[tabycat]

If they are found early enough we maybe able to “catch” it. There"s one that pasted by in the last 2 or 3 years that is execpt by the late 2030’s or the early 2040’s. Even if these astroids are minable, we could get veluable experence by going to them. Maybe I’m just a dreamer.

 

[GEddie]

Well, I know this is old, but apparently we now know the Mars thing isn’t happening.

We just don’t have the technology to safely pilot a heavy (ie, manned) ship through the Martian atmosphere to a safe landing. It’s too thin to use wings or parachutes; too dense to use retrorockets of the force that would be needed.

An impossible dream, after all.

ICXC NIKA

 

[ThinkingSapien]

An impossible dream, after all.

Until we can populate some of the harshest environments on earth I am quite skeptical of our ability to populate harsher places off of earth. Trying to do so seems a bit like trying to run before one learns how to walk.

 

[edwest2]

There’s a group in the Netherlands who plan setting up a colony on Mars by 2023. mars-one.com/ They plan sending four people, selected from around the world, in 2023. Four more will be sent every two years after that. There’s no return flight; if you go you’re there for the rest of your life.

Nevertheless, I’d like to go. I don’t suppose there’ll be any priests in the crew of four, so where would that leave me with regards to the sacraments? I would never hear Mass again, receive Holy Communion, have my confession heard and when I die no Last Rights or a proper Catholic burial. And I won’t ask what happens if I fall in love with a fellow colonist and we wanted to get married?

It’s not the same as the colonisation of the New World where people went in ships loads of hundreds with priests among them. They even sent a priest with Christopher Columbus, but people then knew the importance of religion which they don’t do today. So we can’t really look to the New World colonists for a precedent.

Perhaps such colonising of Mars should be left to non-Catholics.

OK, so I’m too old and sick to go, but it does raise questions I think the the Church will need to address very soon.

That’s hilarious. I mean really, really funny.

1. They can pay for a spaceship to get them there?
2. The ride will take about 2 - 4 months, assuming the latest rocket technology is made available to them, plus they will need to be shielded from solar radiation.
3. Food and water will take up valuable space and a recycling system should be in place. Spare parts for critical systems should be on hand.
4. Considering the average Martian temperature is very cold, they will have to build/erect a habitat. In the meantime, they will need additional food and water.
5. This habitat must include a garden large enough to feed the colonists.

A. There is no guarantee that food plants will grow in Martian soil.
B. There is no evidence that harmful bacteria do not exist in the soil.
C. If water is found a few feet below the surface, then the colonists can drink it and split it into hydrogen and oxygen.
D. They will most likely need a small nuclear reactor of the pebble type to provide electricity.

1. They should consider the possibility of developing a small-scale ability to melt metallic rocks which could then be formed into spare parts. The failure of complex electronic systems would also be a factor. A spare parts ship should be parked in a stable orbit since waiting four months for a spare part would probably not be practical.

I would say their chances of surviving after landing are next to nothing. They need to have more data. It would make sense to send a remotely deployable habitat with some type of heating system and perhaps a lighting system, to see if the Martian soil, after warming, will allow for seeding and that the seeds actually sprout and grow to maturity. Of course, the plants will still need water, but assuming a drill and pump can pull it out of the near surface, it may work. Finally, the air problem. Oxygen could be supplied from canisters and then from the splitting of water from the water supply. The carbon dioxide would need to be vented or absorbed into some material that is off the shelf technology.

Why go if you don’t know?

Peace,
Ed

 

[GEddie]

The conditions on Mars are very similar to Antarctica.

Hardly. You can breathe in Antarctica. For that matter, if you had to, you could chop up some of the “ground” under you, melt it in your hands, and drink it. (Not do it that way routinely, though, if you value your hands!)

Neither of those somatic human needs can be so easily met on Mars.

If Mars were really like Antarctica, human life would have gone there by now.

ICXC NIKA