The Church and the State

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This is a thread particularly for American Catholics.

I have been having a lively discussion with a fellow Catholic on YouTube about the legislation in California that may legalize marijuana. I want to share with you our exchange and get your thoughts:
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Me:
Let me ask you a question. Your unique view on government may provide some insight into my dilemma.

The elections are coming, and I have been having debates with members of my family over the legalization of marijuana in California. The Church, as far as I am aware, teaches that consuming harmful drugs like marijuana is a mortal sin, and my reasoning is that if we vote in favor of legalization, we are cooperating with mortal sin. My parents, though devout Catholics, just don’t “get” this. Church teaching just doesn’t factor into their thinking. I know this sounds odd since I describe them as “devout,” but they’re set in their ways, you know?

Anyway, I was wondering if you may have some insight on this. Thanks.
 
Him:
My view on this matter is a little different from yours. First of all, let us assume (just for the sake of argument) that smoking Marijuana is a mortal sin. Would this fact alone require that it should be illegal or that Catholics should want it banned by the State? Not necessarily. After all, there are many actions which can send you to hell but which do not (and should not) send you to jail. Imagine a man or woman being arrested for adultery, masturbation or giving in to hateful thoughts. Are these matters of State? I do not think so. It seems to me that secular law (however it is construed) is not competent to judge all matters of morality but only those of a particular kind: Namely bodily aggression or acts of aggression against a person’s identity or property, which if permitted, would render social life impossible. But there are many ways in which a person could voluntarily misuse his freedom and yet not be guilty of a criminal act. I don’t think for example that teenagers who engage in premarital sex (which is surely more sinful than marijuana consumption) ought to be imprisoned. Only in some Christian police state (like Calvinist Geneva) have such things been contemplated. Thomas Aquinas himself pointed out that some evils (he listed prostitution as an example) ought to be tolerated for the greater good. I agree with him. Indeed, prostitution was tolerated throughout the middle ages. The idea of jack booted police officers tackling women of the street and putting handcuffs on them would likely have struck the medievals as ludicrous, not the mention cruel.

Now concerning the notion of “the greater social good”, drug prohibition (whether marijuana, alcohol or crack) is a great example of a “good intention” with very negative consequences. When a substance in demand is prohibited by law, the substance does NOT go away. On the contrary, both sound economic theory and the history of prohibition attest to the fact that the substance (if it can be easily and cheaply produced) proliferates even more under prohibition. The reasons for this have to do with risk premiums, the laws of supply and demand and other factors and monetary rewards of a black market, all of which drive up profits in the prohibited industry and encourage many people to enter it in order to make an easy buck. It is also a well established fact that under prohibition, both the potency of the drug in question and the number of people using it INCREASE. Alcoholism became a bigger problem during American prohibition for example than before it was illegal. So again, even if I conceded your claim that the Church specifically teaches (dogmatically) that Marijuana consumption is a mortal sin, that would hardly be enough to prove that one should want it made illegal.

However, let us address the question of whether it actually is sinful to smoke marijuana or whether the Church actually teaches this. Patently, the Church teaches no such thing. The catechism says that the consumption of harmful drugs is a sin, but does not list marijuana specifically. Even if it did, this statement could not be de fide, since the question of the harmfulness of marijuana is a technical scientific question (not a dogmatic question) and the Church enjoys no infallible protection on questions of science. In fact, scientists disagree about whether marijuana is harmful, with opinions ranging all over the map. Some claim that it is positively beneficial for one’s health (if smoked in moderation) and some that it is neither good nor bad. A tiny number (almost all of whom work for the State) claim that it is extraordinarily bad for you, and yet this seems to be an overstatement. How often do we hear about people dying from marijuana, being addicted to marijuana or killing each other because they were high on marijuana? Very rarely in the first and third cases and claims of physical addiction seem very implausible to me. Concerning the last point, consider the fact that alcohol, cigarette, meth, coke, crack and heroin users will often admit that they are addicted and cannot stop, but have you ever heard of someone being physically addicted to marijuana? I have not. At the very least, there is a relatively widespread consensus in the scientific community that marijuana had legitimate medical uses. And that brings me to my last consideration.

The idea that a plant (created by God) can be evil or ought to be made illegal strikes me as utterly preposterous and extraordinarily uncatholic. Do we not, as Catholics, accept a teleological view of nature, whereby every animal and plant has a purpose and is good? The notion of a “devilplant” (marijuana) or the devil’s drink (alcohol) is Manichean at best, no matter how many protestants (and protestantized American Catholics) may believe it. The fall in Eden did not turn nature evil, but rather effected man’s nature in such a way that his passions, intellect and will are no longer properly governed by the preternatural graces given to Adam and Eve, but are inclined toward disorder (Original Sin). However, the devil has no power to create and the notion that certain plants are “bad” and others “good” has no place in Christian thought. Certainly, a plant can have potential dangers if misused, but it must have proper uses as well and this is true even of the cocaine plant and of the chemicals used to construct crystal meth (although not necessarily crystal meth itself, which is artificial). Now marijuana seems obviously intended for consumption, at least in some circumstances, whether those be very narrow or more broad. However, the idea that Catholics must take the view that smoking marijuana is always sinful, much less a MORTAL sin, cannot in my opinion be reconciled with a Christian ontology of nature.
 
Him (continued):
So to sum up: Even if I did believe that smoking marijuana was a mortal sin I would still be opposed to it’s prohibition on prudential grounds. However, I do not think it is a mortal sin (and in some circumstances, it may not even be a venial sin) to smoke or ingest marijuana. Nor can one plausibly claim that the Catholic Church infallibly teaches that smoking marijuana is a mortal sin. As a postscript, the war on drugs is a disaster IMO and ought to be ended immediately, although that is unlikely to happen since both the State and drug gangs benefit enormously from drug prohibition and would lose a great deal of power and money should it be decriminalized.
 
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Me:
Thank you for your clarification.

Your view is very attractive to me, but I don’t know if it is compatible with Church teaching, which is central to my thinking. I am open to persuasion, though. What concerns me most is the possibility of materially cooperating, however distantly, with mortal sin, or any sin at all. Unless I am mistaken, this is the same concern involved with voting for pro-choice politicians. It seems to me that this is something you need to address.

You brought up an interesting point, though. To what extent do we as Catholic use the government to enforce Church teaching - premarital sex is an excellent example. Why stop at abortion, after all? So this really gets to the heart at the proper relationship between Church and State. I’m assuming you have a well-defined view on this, but in light of the above concern, do you think we might be cooperating with evil?

Now, is the use of marijuana a mortal sin? Well, I’ve talked to my brother on this, and he says that just one hit produces effects similar to being drunk. Does this change at all your thinking?
 
Him:
Again assuming that ingesting or smoking marijuana is always or usually a mortal sin, I still do not think that voting for legalization or voting for a candidate who favors legalization would be a mortal sin for the following reasons: Cooperating with mortal sin must mean something stronger and more precise than simply voting for circumstances that might allow a mortal sin to take place without legal repercussions, otherwise we’d all be obligated as Catholics to vote for any candidate who wished to punish as many mortal sins as possible by law, but I think we’d all agree that there are a whole slew of voluntary sins (which are mortal) that fall outside of criminal law. I’ve already given some examples of this. Now consider the following thought experiment: there are 2 candidates running, one of whom is a run of the mill liberal and the other of whom wants to establish a Christian police state in which every human being is constantly observed by cameras and should any citizen commit a mortal sin or be observed to be about the commit a sin, he will be instantly seized and thrown into jail. Even assuming this worked to lower the instances of sins carried out, is that the kind of human civilization that God prefers? Are we obligated to vote for the Christian dictator? I personally do not think so. God seems to prefer to give human beings freedom and to prefer allowing them to abuse it over forcing them to properly use it. It seems to me that the coercive power of law is only justified (and efficacious) in restraining or punishing coercive sins (like murder, theft, fraud, arson, abortion, rape, child molestation, child pornography, robbery, etc) and not voluntary sins (like homosexuals living together and falsely claiming they are married, heterosexual philandering, lying or being spiteful, adultery, sodomy, using dangerous drugs, being irreligious, prostitution etc). It also seems to be the case that criminal punishment is impotent in precisely those areas (voluntary, uncoerced sin) where it is operating outside it’s natural limits.

Is God “cooperating with mortal sin” by allowing us to misuse freedom? Clearly no. Now voting for the legalization of marijuana is not cooperating with mortal sin, because your vote does not force people to use marijuana nor does it even increase the instances of marijuana use. People are ALREADY using marijuana, and if laws against it were actually efficacious then we wouldn’t be having this discussion. It’s precisely because there is no point to such laws, it is because it is SO EASY to get marijuana and because so many people use it that the laws against it seem preposterous. What are these laws for, if they don’t even work? You are not “enforcing moral law” by voting for them, because anyone can easy get marijuana any time he wants. You are not “permitting mortal sin” by voting against such a law, because anyone who is going to commit this sin will do so with or without your permission. Voting for abortion would be mortal sin because you are authorizing an injustice which is contrary to natural law, which is deadly coercive and which women and “doctors” can only get away with because of its legalization. That is, by voting for abortion you helping to bring about a sinful state of affairs which would otherwise would not exist (or which would be harder to get away with) and you are taking away the legal protection of an unborn child which would otherwise be there. However, when it comes to drugs or illicit sex (assuming it’s not rape or child abuse, which is coercive) you have no power to change what people will do anyway. Your vote against voluntary drug use is therefore just a formality. It may make you feel good, but it has zero positive effect on what millions of other people voluntarily choose to do. However there is overwhelming evidence that the war on drugs has made the drug problem in America much worse and there is overwhelming evidence that decriminalization in countries that had serious drug problems (like Portugal) results in fewer drug users, lower drug violence and fewer addicts.

I think the reason it works this way is that ultimately there are natural limits to what sorts of activities that State can pursue. The State (by which I mean, secular legal order) is not supposed to be the Church, it is not supposed to be a saint maker or sinner reformer. That is the Church’s job. The State’s natural limits preclude it from having any legitimate function but that of restraining men from injuring each other by embodying the legal framework and institutions which work to that end. But there are many kinds of evils that the State is simply impotent to deal with. Because we live under a mega state here in America, which is so hyper involved in so many aspects of our life and which has assumed so many roles in the modern world once occupied by the Church, the temptation for many well intentioned modern Catholics is to try to make the state a kind of honorary Church to uphold Christian teaching. But that is an impossible state of affairs IMO. Everyone just assumes it because we are all democrats now and we are all collectivists in the modern world, treating every issue as if it were something that we can or should vote about. But I do not accept this false dichotomy where it’s my “vote for goodness” versus that person’s “vote for evil.” PERSONAL SIN IS NOT THE SORT OF THING THAT CAN BE VOTED ABOUT ANYWAY! You are no more cooperating with mortal sin by voting for marijuana legalization than you would be by voting against a bill for stoning adulteresses. That’s just not what the coercive power of law is for. The attempt to create, through coercive law, a “perfect society” in which people are made “good” by having no opportunity to commit personal sins is not compatible with Catholic thought, but is thoroughly protestant, puritanical and progressive.
 
Him (continued):
It is the state of affairs that came about in the west through the rise of powerful centralized states (in the late middle ages and during the protestant reformation) whereby the State is transformed into a sort of social church. We already know what Christ thought about the practice of stoning adulterers. What would he say about jailing druggies, much less casual users of marjuana, much less those who have painful medical conditions that marijuana alleviates? And of course I’ve already argued that there must be SOME legitimate use for marijuana, even if it is only narrowly defined medical circumstances.

Since I’ve gone on so long about that issue, I’ve leave the question of the mortal sinfulness of casually smoking marijuana aside for now, in order to avoid going on and on. I can address that in a further post if you’d like.
 
As you can see, this issue gets at the heart of the relationship between Church and State, and I find his view sensible. Abortion and other injustices should be opposed, and it may be even sinful to vote for a “prochoice” candidate, but how about these other issues like marijuana? I think he raises a powerful argument and a sensible view of the government. We should not treat it is an instrument of the Church to enforce all Catholic teaching - only those teachings where someone else is being harmed in some way.

I also find this to be a more fertile environment for the Church, since people tend to be resentful of the Church when it appears that it is overreaching.

What do you guys think?
 
I admit that I have not read through the entire exchange, but my overall opinion is this.

The “State” will reflect, to a great extent, the beliefs of the population.
Those entering the voting booth should not be asked, or expected, to leave their “beliefs”, "faith, "or “morality” outside. To do so would be to lie to “the state” and possibly cause it to take some action not in accordance with the will of the majority.

Now the above is, of course, overly simplified for “the state”, must take other factors into consideration than simply the “will of the voters”, like whether whether something is “constitutional”.

In regards to legalizing marijuana, the question becomes one of where one draws the line. Alchohol is legal and consumed in moderation by many Catholics. Cigarettes remain legal even though many millions are spent, by the government and the tobbacco companies themselves, trying to get people to quit. Yet “pot” remains illegal?

I don’t know that Catholic teaching is that clear or adamant in this area for one to say that a Catholic should always vote one way or the other (unlike abortion). I think Catholics are free to vote their conscience on this matter and neither way would be sinful or contrary to Church teaching.

Just my 2c

Peace
James
 
Well, I profoundly agree with him, whoever he is.

Legalize and tax it already. The whole debate is getting tiresome.
 
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