The Church and the Word of God

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Any religion could say the same thing, but somehow I doubt you feel that way about those that leave Mormonism or the Jehovah Witness faith.
 
glencor63 said:
Any religion could say the same thing, but somehow I doubt you feel that way about those that leave Mormonism or the Jehovah Witness faith.
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Why should we when we as Catholics believe that Catholicism contains the fullness of truth and those others don’t?
 
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“Any religion” is not God’s One Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, the Truth in which I profess belief at every Mass, on every Rosary, and on every Divine Mercy Chaplet.

I’d be pretty lame if I said, “I believe in God’s One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church” and all it teaches, but said, “And if you don’t believe it, then it’s okay if you go join any other church you like or even start your own.” God said that’s not okay.
 
I been there, having left the Church and not returning for over 25 years. Meanwhile I fell in love with the bible and became Protestant. Fairly shallow well there, however, as I was to find out later when I began to study RCC teachings and the wealth of literature that the Church has produced from the beginning. It’s all there. There’s no reason to leave the Catholic Church, never was in spite of the bumbling or sinful performance at times of some of her people. That happens everywhere human beings are present BTW. And whatever good any Reformer or Protestant believer might have to offer should only add to the Church’s rich wealth of knowledge and experience.

As far as Scripture is concerned the majority of believers down through the centuries have arguably been illiterate. The Church has transmitted the nature and will of God quite well for centuries, in her teachings and in her sacraments, which amount to theology (correct theology) in simple physical form which is accessible and understandable to all.

Protestantism, OTOH, due directly to the doctrine of Sola Scriptura, has made a fine mess of the faith, with disagreement at every turn except on the doctrine of Sola Scriptura which, again, guarantees no unity of faith. And Sola Fide even though they argue with each other over just what that means-and how it justifies.
 
What about free will? Does Christ force one to worship him? I’m genuinely interested because I never knew one was compelled to remain Roman Catholic once professed. Very few religions have compulsory membership. I would think a religion would want those with a genuine belief and love for its teachings to remain in its fold.
 
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glencor63 said:
What about free will? Does Christ force one to worship him?
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No, one can deny the truth. But truth is truth, regardless of what others think.
glencor63 said:
I’m genuinely interested because I never knew one was compelled to remain Roman Catholic once professed.
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Once Catholic, always a Catholic. You can no sooner leave the Catholic Church than build a place Christ can’t enter, because we are a part of the Body of Christ.
 
Well, that’s one way to maintain a majority and stifle dissent!😬
 
I’m Roman Catholic of my own free will. I come from a tradition whereby you choose your faith. You are not compelled to remain out of fear, but out of a genuine faith and belief. How much faith can a person truly have when fear keeps them in the pews? A genuine belief is what any religion should want from its members
 
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glencor63 said:
I’m Roman Catholic of my own free will. I come from a tradition whereby you choose your faith. You are not compelled to remain out of fear, but out of a genuine faith and belief. How much faith can a person truly have when fear keeps them in the pews? A genuine faith is what any religion should want from its members
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Of course Catholicism wants genuine faith from its members. But acting like there is no consequence for denying truth is neither loving nor honest.
 
Some Catholics drift away religion and then for whatever reason decide to return to religion, many wind up in Evangelicalism. A number say they just never sensed faith was important growing up whereas in Evangelicalism, they feel it’s everywhere in one’s life. Faith drives everything. It’s not confined to just Sundays for an hour or two at most. It’s also the same for some raised in other Protestant denominations.
 
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It’s Jesus that grants salvation, not the Church. I truly believe that some souls would not thrive in some churches. Their vocation could not be lived out. Reverend Billy Graham could not have fulfilled his mission as a Roman Catholic. He had to be Protestant, whereas Mother Teresa had to be Roman Catholic. Corrie ten Boom had to be Dutch Reformed. God is bigger than any church.
 
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glencor63 said:
… Losing Chris Castaldo to Evangelical Protestantism is a tremendous loss for the Catholic Church. Personally, if I were his former Bishop I would study his reasoning very carefully. He was a devout Catholic.
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Hello glencor63 - I’m glad you found this thread…

“He was a devout Catholic” externally, maybe. As a “revert” myself (I left the Church as a young adult, and returned in my 30’s) - I interpret his story as that he was a loyal Catholic - not faithful in the true sense of that holy word - not devout, which in a religious sense is also a holy word - but “loyal”. Loyal is a word that connotes a habitual adherence to something, but adherence - which remains on the plane of the natural - is far, far, far from the supernatural oneness that holy faith brings.

And people can cling to loyalty for years upon years, but loyalty alone is not enough to bring the life that Jesus came to bring us. And loyalty alone is much less than the holy Church formed and sent by Jesus Christ the Lord, deserves of us.

If loyalty alone, to the Church, is all that any reader of this thread possesses - I say, Dig Deeper! . There is a universe of grace and blessings and power in His Church that you have not yet found!
 
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Hello, Fide! I hope you are well. Chris Castaldo seems to have had a Martin Luther moment. He never felt forgiven of his sins. I’m sure there were other factors, but I do remember reading that habitual sin and the constant need to confess the sin, as well as never feeling good enough was the catalyst. He attended an Evangelical Protestant event with a friend and the pieces of the puzzle fell into place. It’s a tremendous loss.
 
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Yes, I heard the Martin Luther similarity, as you did. I’m sorry that Mr. Castaldo never heard, or learned, or came to understand how lacking in solid formation in the Catholic Faith, Fr. Luther actually was! Yes he was a teacher of the Faith in the University! ("He earned a doctorate in theology, and taught as a professor in biblical studies.). He knew “about” - but did he know Him - God Himself? I must say no.

I hope he came to know Him, before he died.
 
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Billy and Corrie were not fallen-away Catholics. There is a big difference between a Catholic who leaves and one who spent their whole life in a different tradition. If you are a Catholic, you have access to all the ways to deepen your faith as a Catholic, including devout practice, making God part of your life daily, the Sacraments, Holy Mass etc. If you reject those, and go elsewhere, then it’s on your head.
 
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Re: “It’s Jesus that grants salvation, not the Church.”

The Church is Jesus’ Body and Bride. Jesus does nothing without bringing His Body along. So there is no clear way to talk about Jesus without also saying the same thing about the Church. The same thing is not true of members of the Church, necessarily, but it is true of the Church as a whole, and particularly of the spotless Church Triumphant.

And that is why, though it can be interpreted various ways, “there is no salvation outside the Church.” Because “there is no other Name by which we can be saved,” and we are saved by Jesus; and because Jesus and the Church are one.
 
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When I say " Church", I mean hierarchy. There use to be a time that people despaired of entering heaven, if they didn’t receive the Sacrament of the Holy Unction, especially those committing suicide. Family and friends mourned what they knew was a lost soul. Now, the Church teaches that we trust in God’s mercy. Jesus created the sacraments. Jesus founded the Church, but he is not bound by the sacraments or Church, just as he was not bound by the Jewish laws and customs. He is God. He does not need our permission to do anything. He can save whomever, whenever.
 
Catholics don’t believe they are getting their forgiveness and absolution from “the hierarchy”. We receive it from Jesus Christ acting through the person of the priest.

And if somebody “doesn’t feel forgiven” after making a good confession and receiving absolution, that is his personal problem, not a problem with the Church, and he should work on his problem.

Also, nobody “knows” that a soul is lost or not. Perhaps some saints who had special charisms had some insight, but “family and friends mourned what they KNEW was a lost soul” was just wrong and their priest if he had any sense would have corrected that kind of despairing thinking.
 
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