Mary_Gail_36
New member
May I repectfully ask why?
- Status
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white_sheep
Guest
1 Tim 2:12 That’s the one that comes to mind. Maybe the title means less than what we make out, more of a recognition than a sign of authority, I suppose that might be ok. It just sure seems as if they are being set up that way.
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cordula
Guest
Pope john paul ll has issued an apology to women for the the treatment they have received from the hands of the church. I dont know exactly what the document is called. though if you were to type in john paul ll apology to women im sure something relevant would come up.
God bless you
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Onegin
Guest
Thank you for writing this, FatherofTwelve, it is really inspiring. I think there is a lot of fear with Catholics today of having a “big family” and your story is helpful in understanding that it can be done and that God will provide if we’d just give Him the chance.
Also, I am continually inspired by the vocations that seem to stem from large families. I am hard-pressed to find a larger, Catholic family that does not have at least one son or daughter in the seminary or convent. Deo Gratias!
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Rence
Guest
That would be:
APOSTOLIC LETTER
MULIERIS DIGNITATEM
OF THE SUPREME PONTIFF
JOHN PAUL II
ON THE DIGNITY AND VOCATION OF WOMEN
ON THE OCCASION OF THE MARIAN YEAR
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_15081988_mulieris-dignitatem_en.html
APOSTOLIC LETTER
MULIERIS DIGNITATEM
OF THE SUPREME PONTIFF
JOHN PAUL II
ON THE DIGNITY AND VOCATION OF WOMEN
ON THE OCCASION OF THE MARIAN YEAR
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_15081988_mulieris-dignitatem_en.html
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edwest2
Guest
Why are you interested in Muslims?My priest said it’s perfectly fine for a woman to work outside the home, and while it should be agreed upon by both parties, and definitely discussed before they get married, they don’t need their husband’s express permission to do so.
But if you want to live as your husband’s subordinate, that’s fineEveryone has to do what’s best for them. Most women today acknowledge that being married is a shared partnership, particularly when most men can’t afford to “keep their wives at home”. Most women contribute to the household by working outside the home as well. I want a husband, not a father
God bless,
Ed
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Rence
Guest
Ed, I can’t always tell when you’re making a funny or being serious, so I’ll just answer you simply: I’m not interested in Muslims…
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JadeStarr
Guest
FatherofTwelve, was your wife able to homeschool your older children? It seems that she’s
doing a pretty good job, and it sounds like you’re happy with your family.
In general, the homeschoolers that I know just like to spend time with their kids and when you consider how long a child is away from home in school, it’s understandable. The school and the teachers are getting the best part of their day and if a parent really enjoys their child then homeschooling is the best way to go. Also, the homeschooled kids that I know are very self confident, not in a precocious, annoying way, just they seem to like people and people like them back.
A child brought a gun into my niece’s school, another niece was raped by schoolmate, this was NOT a poor area and my sister was devastated when this happened. The boy who raped my niece was a star athelete and she was bullied in school, it took a lot for my niece to prove her case but she did in a court of law. This is why I can understand a parent protecting their kid as long as they can, as to whether or not your children will follow your ways, who knows? If they’re having a happy childhood, probably so.
My only thought is that you need to make sure that you take care of your health and four jobs is way too many, your partner needs you to be healthy and you need her to be healthy. Homeschooling will only work if someone is willing and able to finance the endeavor. And I agree with you that your wife has the harder job because there’s no leaving her work at five or breaks or lunch hours.
When you and your wife die, your children will STILL have each other and there’s bound to be someone that each child can bond with in a family of twelve.
doing a pretty good job, and it sounds like you’re happy with your family.
In general, the homeschoolers that I know just like to spend time with their kids and when you consider how long a child is away from home in school, it’s understandable. The school and the teachers are getting the best part of their day and if a parent really enjoys their child then homeschooling is the best way to go. Also, the homeschooled kids that I know are very self confident, not in a precocious, annoying way, just they seem to like people and people like them back.
A child brought a gun into my niece’s school, another niece was raped by schoolmate, this was NOT a poor area and my sister was devastated when this happened. The boy who raped my niece was a star athelete and she was bullied in school, it took a lot for my niece to prove her case but she did in a court of law. This is why I can understand a parent protecting their kid as long as they can, as to whether or not your children will follow your ways, who knows? If they’re having a happy childhood, probably so.
My only thought is that you need to make sure that you take care of your health and four jobs is way too many, your partner needs you to be healthy and you need her to be healthy. Homeschooling will only work if someone is willing and able to finance the endeavor. And I agree with you that your wife has the harder job because there’s no leaving her work at five or breaks or lunch hours.
When you and your wife die, your children will STILL have each other and there’s bound to be someone that each child can bond with in a family of twelve.
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edwest2
Guest
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FatherOfTwelve
Guest
Thanks, yea the four jobs darn near killed me (and I was 26 at the time). I’m now 46 and my wife is welllll she may be reading this…
anyway she is younger than me
We both try and go to the gym for an hour each day, it’s our “Daily Date” the older girls take care of things while we’re out. You are truely correct about the death thing. I’ll be honest. After our 12th. I got a little concerned thinking about dying and leaving my wife and kids. I went and talked to my priest told him my concerns about dying and concedering NFP, should I? He said the worst thing a father could ever do is divorce his wife and abandon his children. When a faithful father dies, even at an early age. His children will know the love he had for them. They will bond, and pass that love on to the younger ones that may have never even known me. Truth be told, I’m tearing up right now thinking about it. I can’t see the screen right now. God Bless.Back now under control:thumbsup:
My wife homeschooled up until 10th grade work. Our kids graduated high school at the local community college. My wife and I both only have a high school education. Algebra and geometry were as far as we got in math.
My family; facebook.com/profile.php?id=1496900336
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Rence
Guest
I explained the reference in the original post:
“If I wanted to be someone’s property, I’d move to Iraq and marry a Muslim.”
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edwest2
Guest
Apparently, some have taken to the radical Feminist brainwashing.
Starting in the 1960s, with the book by Betty Friedan, The Feminine Mystique, and her comment about the family being a “comfortable concentration camp.” The National Organization for Women yelling, “Sisters! Throw off the chains of your oppression!” in the 1970s.
Women were portrayed as a Permanent Victim Class, the Eternal Oppressor? Men. All Men. The patriarchal society, the patriarchal Church. Men were called “male chauvenist pigs.” Bras were burned as a symbol of female opppression. It turns out that ladies’ undergarments were mostly designed by men.
Being a wife and mother was stigmatized. Get a career. Don’t listen to that man. Years later, the results of the social engineering experiment came out. Careers weren’t all that satisfying.
Let me make it clear. The goal of NOW was to create Class Warfare between men and women. To destroy the family. To turn male-female relationships into an ongoing power struggle. At one point, I thought “dating” would get to the point where the man would have to sign a piece of paper outlining what was expected of him and taking full liability for all future actions.
What was the fruit of this? Predatory men (and I’m not denying they existed) were later modeled by Sex and the City women. Women turned into female chauvenist pigs.
The roles that were made for men and women by God were thrown out the window. There was nothing fair or truly functional about any of it. The secular world turned relationships into a power struggle.
A functional relationship between a man and a woman works like this: there is dating without sex. If both parties agree, they go steady, followed by courtship. During this time, the man and the woman are introduced to each other’s families. If they talk about marriage, everything gets covered: where to live, kids and other expectations. Then there is an engagement period, and, if all are still willing, marriage. The father tells his daughter she can back out at the time of the wedding if she’s unsure.
It was about getting to know the other person, about spending time together, about doing things together and it involved both families. The father sat the guy down and asked, “How are you going to take care of my daughter?” The father had been young once. He understood the blinding effects of hormones and feminine beauty. He got it. And the “in-laws,” as opposed to recent popular fiction, did not exist to be avoided. Intergenerational bonds were created.
But no. Too many believe that dating is about sex and going for “test drives.” I had met a stunning beauty in her early 30’s. She told me she was divorced. She had been married 9 months. What happened? She found out her husband was a “nut.” And he exhibited zero nutty behavior during the time they were dating? Or were they actually taking the time to get to know each other?
Follow Biblical principles. Reject the outside world’s hyper-sexuality. Reject fornication. Develop a relationship built on knowledge, trust, understanding and shared beliefs and values.
God bless,
Ed
Starting in the 1960s, with the book by Betty Friedan, The Feminine Mystique, and her comment about the family being a “comfortable concentration camp.” The National Organization for Women yelling, “Sisters! Throw off the chains of your oppression!” in the 1970s.
Women were portrayed as a Permanent Victim Class, the Eternal Oppressor? Men. All Men. The patriarchal society, the patriarchal Church. Men were called “male chauvenist pigs.” Bras were burned as a symbol of female opppression. It turns out that ladies’ undergarments were mostly designed by men.
Being a wife and mother was stigmatized. Get a career. Don’t listen to that man. Years later, the results of the social engineering experiment came out. Careers weren’t all that satisfying.
Let me make it clear. The goal of NOW was to create Class Warfare between men and women. To destroy the family. To turn male-female relationships into an ongoing power struggle. At one point, I thought “dating” would get to the point where the man would have to sign a piece of paper outlining what was expected of him and taking full liability for all future actions.
What was the fruit of this? Predatory men (and I’m not denying they existed) were later modeled by Sex and the City women. Women turned into female chauvenist pigs.
The roles that were made for men and women by God were thrown out the window. There was nothing fair or truly functional about any of it. The secular world turned relationships into a power struggle.
A functional relationship between a man and a woman works like this: there is dating without sex. If both parties agree, they go steady, followed by courtship. During this time, the man and the woman are introduced to each other’s families. If they talk about marriage, everything gets covered: where to live, kids and other expectations. Then there is an engagement period, and, if all are still willing, marriage. The father tells his daughter she can back out at the time of the wedding if she’s unsure.
It was about getting to know the other person, about spending time together, about doing things together and it involved both families. The father sat the guy down and asked, “How are you going to take care of my daughter?” The father had been young once. He understood the blinding effects of hormones and feminine beauty. He got it. And the “in-laws,” as opposed to recent popular fiction, did not exist to be avoided. Intergenerational bonds were created.
But no. Too many believe that dating is about sex and going for “test drives.” I had met a stunning beauty in her early 30’s. She told me she was divorced. She had been married 9 months. What happened? She found out her husband was a “nut.” And he exhibited zero nutty behavior during the time they were dating? Or were they actually taking the time to get to know each other?
Follow Biblical principles. Reject the outside world’s hyper-sexuality. Reject fornication. Develop a relationship built on knowledge, trust, understanding and shared beliefs and values.
God bless,
Ed
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Rence
Guest
Hey Ed, I completely agree with everything you wrote here.
This is how it should be IMOHO.Well people do change after they’re married. It’s only normal to expect some changes because one is not working as hard to get the other to marry them. I’d go as far as to say that their confidence makes them a bit lazy. But to hear about such drastic changes that made the woman in your post say that she found out her husband was a “nut” is common and I don’t know why. Perhaps they aren’t actually taking the time to get to know each other. Or maybe they’re not working hard enough at their marriage? It’s not an easy thing to be married. I tend to think of it as a growing, learning and futher developing together.
But lets look at my mom and dad. My dad was…nuts. My mom dated my dad, but when they got married they were supposed to go on their honeymoon in Italy and return to the US. But upon their arrival, my father took away my mom’s ID and passport and announced that they were remaining in Italy and that she was his wife and would be staying with him. She spent three months trying to coordinate with her parents in the US trying to get back. The US embassy didn’t help her because she was married to my father and was considered Italian. They wouldn’t help her get her passport and return to the US. She got pregnant with me while she was there. She told her mother-in-law that she was going to leave Italy one way or another, even if that meant killing herself and her child with her. So, her mother-in-law gave her back her passport and ID and told my father, “you married an American, now go back to America with her”. I have NO clue what would possess my mom to stay with him after that. Surely she had grounds for an annulment as her husband deceived her from the beginning.
But my American-Italian grandparents were very devout and thought it a “sin” to divorce and obviously had no knowledge of Catholic marriage as a Sacrament and annulment. They were simple people who didn’t read the CCC or encyclicals. But went to Church devoutly and listened to their priest.
While I was growing up I watched my father, (who was always foul-tempered, a screamer and yeller, and antagonistic) quickly turn into an alcoholic and drug addict when I was a teenager. Where did THAT come from? Looking back on it, I still don’t get it. He also morphed from a clean-cut boring accountant to a dishelved grizzy-adams type character that hung out with unsavory street-type people. Where did THAT come from? Granted I was a kid, but didn’t I get to know him? It wasn’t until I threw him out myself that my mom got a divorce and with the help of a priest got an annulment. Did she not take the time to get to know him? I don’t know, I wasn’t there. I would hope she tried. Marriage for my mom was a one-time thing at that time. It took 19 years for her to finally leave him and that was probably because of me and the death of her father, otherwise she’d still be with him. Of course, the priest helped her a lot too.
What happened? I mean, I saw a drastic change in him happen over the course of a few years. But did he present a different person when he was dating my mother? Again, I don’t know, I wasn’t there.
I agree with you…but I am the only one I know of IRL that does
And how do you convince others to do the same when they don’t see premarital sex or extramarital sex as wrong? Or even that they deserve better? Or does that go hand-in-hand?
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revert_jen
Guest
I’m surprised that nobody has mentioned this before, but the women who came out to vote against voting had something wrong with their heads. Talk about hypocritical!
I would think that the vast majority of women who thought women shouldn’t vote did not, in fact, vote. It only makes sense.
Anyway, the problem with there being no “men’s work” and “women’s work” any more is that now everyone has to know everything, so lots of things don’t get done as well as they ought to, and everyone is under more pressure.
I don’t know any other way than the modern way, and I’ve been working pretty consistently since I was about 14 (outside school hours until I graduated college). I think the advantages outweigh the disadvantages, but it’s silly to pretend that there are no disadvantages.
Back to the subject of the thread.
I find the Church’s idea that women are not the same as men to be very comforting. I was born post-Vatican II, so my experience is limited, but I have never felt discriminated against in the Church. I don’t want to be the same as men, and the idea that women and men can be equal without being equivalent is very comforting. I also haven’t found that idea much of anywhere besides the Church.
–Jen
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edwest2
Guest
You ask a lot of questions about particular issues with your particular family. I can’t answer them. Yes, the Church has an annulment process for special circumstances. The Church understands how these things sometimes happen. The changes that might occur.
The low fertility rate in Italy has been referred to by the Pope as a lack of hope. We all would like our lives to have more ups than downs. To have more positives than negatives. To be less hard. It can all be so tiring to work, come home, deal with any problems that came up that day or the kids are sick or your wife’s mother is sick and so on. But the fact is this: there are no guarantees. A devout man I knew would plan like this: God willing, I’ll do this tomorrow, and God willing, I’ll finish working on the basement. No, I did not know any perfect people, just people who tried to do their best.
Hope means moving on with your life as opposed to being bound by fear. For Catholics, faith and hope, and sound principles involving dating as a period of building a strong foundation of friendship that may turn into love and a desire for commitment, is foundational. The basic building block of any society is the family.
What people really want and need is love. Real understanding built on friendship and trust. It’s been replaced by the 24/7 marketing of sex at all times.
I have a 19 year old relative who refused her boyfriend’s advances. She told him she wanted to wait till she was married. He replied" “Do people even do that anymore?” We sure can. We definitely can.
God bless,
Ed
The low fertility rate in Italy has been referred to by the Pope as a lack of hope. We all would like our lives to have more ups than downs. To have more positives than negatives. To be less hard. It can all be so tiring to work, come home, deal with any problems that came up that day or the kids are sick or your wife’s mother is sick and so on. But the fact is this: there are no guarantees. A devout man I knew would plan like this: God willing, I’ll do this tomorrow, and God willing, I’ll finish working on the basement. No, I did not know any perfect people, just people who tried to do their best.
Hope means moving on with your life as opposed to being bound by fear. For Catholics, faith and hope, and sound principles involving dating as a period of building a strong foundation of friendship that may turn into love and a desire for commitment, is foundational. The basic building block of any society is the family.
What people really want and need is love. Real understanding built on friendship and trust. It’s been replaced by the 24/7 marketing of sex at all times.
I have a 19 year old relative who refused her boyfriend’s advances. She told him she wanted to wait till she was married. He replied" “Do people even do that anymore?” We sure can. We definitely can.
God bless,
Ed
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IntegraCatholic
Guest
I wonder if anything more asinine has ever happened. Oh, the Church apologizing to Galileo. LOL. I still think an apology to women from the treatment “from the hands of the Church” would be worse. Oh, and then there’s Assisi…
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Rence
Guest
I can’t tell you how much I enjoy when you post comments like this because it proves and validates my own points, and it explains your perspective in a more clear manner than when you try to convey them directly
It also speaks volumes when one judges Pope John Paul II’s actions as “assinine”. That’s a good example of what some of us mean by some members of CAF being Holier than the Pope. You bring it together seamlessly. Thank you
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IntegraCatholic
Guest
To you and those who live in the realm of opinion.
I never said his actions were assinine.
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JadeStarr
Guest
Doug, thank you for sharing, your family is just beautiful and your wife is lovely.
I pray that both of you will live long enough to see your great grandchildren.
I pray that both of you will live long enough to see your great grandchildren.
J
JaneGrey
Guest
Great post. Just one thing-
When I said before that I dont think a particular job or action should be labeled as simplistically as men’s or women’s work, I did not mean that anyone who chose to partake solely in women’s work are wrong. However the option should be open for those who want to work in fields outside what is generally seen as ‘suitable’ for their gender. Some women are simply inept at ‘women’s work’. I certainly am haha.
My mother has never really cooked for instance but to this day does simple DIY repairs around the house. When she was younger she even did not so simple repairs.
I have also seen young men who are great and even nurturing with children-some may find the thought of a nurturing man disgusting or weird but I think it would be a shame if these men never got to do the ‘women’s work’ that they are so good at.
As to having to do more things nowadays, yes it is tougher but that is what you get for more freedom. I want to be able to drive my own car, so I learned how to change a tyre myself etc.
It is good that you have never felt discriminated against by the Church. If you are comfortable in whatever role you are in or doing women’s work or whatever, that is indeed great and no one should make you feel intimidated or uncomfortable for doing it. It is a good thing that we have these choices to make.
God bless
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