The Church Body

[cuzzyn17]

If the church is a body of believers and the body has many parts. I think we put too much stock behind religion. If we focused more on being CHRISTians that we would not get caught up in the who is right or wrong and just listen to The WORD of GOD (LOVE) rather than worrying who is rigth because if we are to come together in the name of Jesus ( which will never happen while we are trying to be religious) and spread the message to all corners of the world to glorify the Kingdom. Just my 2 cents .

 

[Trishie]

Hi Cuzzyn

I don’t think it’s either/or. We can live Christianity with wholehearted conviction and witness while also being religious. That’s certainly my focus…and the focus of a great many people.

God bless you!

 

[red_eye_chimera]

If the church is a body of believers and the body has many parts. I think we put too much stock behind religion. If we focused more on being CHRISTians that we would not get caught up in the who is right or wrong and just listen to The WORD of GOD (LOVE) rather than worrying who is rigth because if we are to come together in the name of Jesus ( which will never happen while we are trying to be religious) and spread the message to all corners of the world to glorify the Kingdom. Just my 2 cents .

Well here’s my 2 cents to add to the pot. There is a fine line on how a Christian should act. One needs faith in Christ to live in him, but you can’t just believe in Christ and continue doing whatever you feel right because that isn’t the path of salvation. Niether is living a life of just being good all for the sake of going to heaven. Salvation comes from admiting Christ’s sacrificial love that saved us from damnation, repenting for our sin (confessional or or no confessional (he can still hear you in your room, but I prefer the confessional)) , and then following discipleship of trying to abide by his commanments and serving his people. One cannot achive salvation on neither faith or works alone, but one can through both.

 

[Eucharisted]

Christianity is the religion of the Word, the religion of Christ Jesus. As Chrisians, we must seek to unite ourselves to Jesus by prayers and offerings, by giving thanks in every circumstance, by performing spiritual and corporal works of charity, by reading Scriptures, by going to Mass, by suffering and sacrifices, by making acts of spiritual communion, by overcoming temptations and by contrition after we sin, etc. If Jesus calls us somewhere, it is so we can unite ourselves with Him even more: if the priesthood, it is to become another Chris; if the religious life, it is to become a servant of Christ; if marriage, it is to become a family of Christ; if missionary, it is to become a voice of Christ; if teacher, it is to become a sign of Christ. We love God with our whole being because He is our God and King, and we love one another just as we love ourselves because we love God. Christianity and the Church’s life is all about the Lord, Jesus Christ.

 

[dzheremi]

Hmmm…things to think about there, for sure. For me, I must wonder: When did being explicitly, unashamedly, unreservedly RELIGIOUS start being seen as a bad thing, or something to de-emphasize? I love my religion. I am proud of it. I believe in it and would never take another, and I would die for it if that were to be in my future at any point. It sustains me and binds me in communion with believers who I don’t share any other characteristics (language, age, politics, etc). It is certainly the galvanizing force that provides me my personal integrity, and it is only a tragedy for me that it is not also so deeply woven into the society in which I live now as I have seen it in other places (and I am not talking about theocracies, I am talking about individual communities of believers in Mexico and the United States).

Being religious is a great thing if you are blessed with the spirit to do great things with it. If not, maybe you will see it as bad or a waste of time, but I sure don’t. Specifically avoiding religion to follow God is like specifically avoiding your refrigerator to look for food in your bathtub instead. Are you going to follow Christ to everywhere BUT the Church? The place where He is really present in the Eucharist? That makes no sense to me, I’m sorry.

 

[cuzzyn17]

Hmmm…things to think about there, for sure. For me, I must wonder: When did being explicitly, unashamedly, unreservedly RELIGIOUS start being seen as a bad thing, or something to de-emphasize? I love my religion. I am proud of it. I believe in it and would never take another, and I would die for it if that were to be in my future at any point. It sustains me and binds me in communion with believers who I don’t share any other characteristics (language, age, politics, etc). It is certainly the galvanizing force that provides me my personal integrity, and it is only a tragedy for me that it is not also so deeply woven into the society in which I live now as I have seen it in other places (and I am not talking about theocracies, I am talking about individual communities of believers in Mexico and the United States).

Being religious is a great thing if you are blessed with the spirit to do great things with it. If not, maybe you will see it as bad or a waste of time, but I sure don’t. Specifically avoiding religion to follow God is like specifically avoiding your refrigerator to look for food in your bathtub instead. Are you going to follow Christ to everywhere BUT the Church? The place where He is really present in the Eucharist? That makes no sense to me, I’m sorry.

I am not saying it is bad, but when we are so caught up in our “religion” that we are so closed minded into believing “we” are the only religion that is right . Is it a tragedy because not all believe in your religion or that so few believe in salvation through christ?

So if I know that I am anointed through the spirit , but because I am not this religion or that religion some people in that belief system would say that I am wrong or it is a false spirit because of their religion. I wholeheartedly think we need to seek out a church to feed our spirit ,we definitely need to be part of a body of believers . As individuals are part of a church each church is part of the body of Christ .I guess my concern is more about unity in the community of believers in Christ than having these walls up against other “religions”. Not saying anything wrong with religion but getting caght up in it rather than the Word.

 

[SteveGC]

cuzzyn,

I recently wrote a post about this on another thread, in which I responded to someone who spoke about how unnecessary The Catholic Church is. Thought I’d copy and paste it here, to see if it helps clarify how religion (specifically the Catholic faith) ties into what you are saying here…

---

…and our Lord is most certainly accessible to everyone in the world, whether you are a member of The Church, or not. No Catholic worth his salt would ever suggest or even hint at the fact that Jesus is bound up in The Church and is hidden from others. No way, no day. The Holy Spirit moves freely, endlessly throughout the entire world. This is Catholic teaching.

What we say, however, is that The Church, by virtue of her apostolic designation by Christ, is the conduit of The Holy Spirit. What does this mean? The Holy Spirit comes to the entire world through The Church, as if like a bridge between Heaven and earth. I know you will disagree to no end. And that’s okay. Suffice it to say that we do not discriminate, nor look down upon, nor suggest damnation to ANYONE, even the deliberate anti-Catholics. Jesus is certainly with my anti-Catholic Baptist family, I “see” it, can sense it without a doubt. Love like that is not man-made or forced.

All that said, Jesus wants us to BE ONE. Not one denomination…one BODY. It’s not enough to just be a scattered array of “believers”…unless those “believers” all believe the SAME thing, and ALL the same things that Jesus wants us to believe. Such is not the case, I’m afraid. Here’s some expansion of that from the Catechism:

CCC 831 Secondly, the Church is catholic because she has been sent out by Christ on a mission to the whole of the human race:
All men are called to belong to the new People of God. This People, therefore, while remaining one and only one, is to be spread throughout the whole world and to all ages in order that the design of God’s will may be fulfilled: he made human nature one in the beginning and has decreed that all his children who were scattered should be finally gathered together as one. . . . The character of universality which adorns the People of God is a gift from the Lord himself whereby the Catholic Church ceaselessly and efficaciously seeks for the return of all humanity and all its goods, under Christ the Head in the unity of his Spirit.

You see, the Catholic Church is not a building, or an exclusive club…it’s one body of unified believers. If you go to a parish is Oshkosh Wisconsin, and the next week go to Zimbabwe…the Mass is the same, the sacraments are the same, the teaching is the same, the faith and moral questions are answered in the SAME way. Does this by itself, mean we’re the Church of the NT? Perhaps not by that proof alone. But the Catholic Church is biblical, you just have to see through 2000 years of evolution to realize it.

God bless you on your journey. I do believe you know Christ in a very personal way, and He walks with you. Please understand that devout Catholics share this very same sentiment about their own faith…and so much more. Hard to explain.

God Bless​

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

If the church is a body of believers and the body has many parts. I think we put too much stock behind religion. If we focused more on being CHRISTians that we would not get caught up in the who is right or wrong and just listen to The WORD of GOD (LOVE) rather than worrying who is rigth because if we are to come together in the name of Jesus ( which will never happen while we are trying to be religious) and spread the message to all corners of the world to glorify the Kingdom. Just my 2 cents .

Gabriel of 12:

True the body of Jesus Christ has been persecuted these last 2000 years. The Catholic church does not argue if she is right or wrong. The body of Jesus Christ lives in the Catholic church. This is believed and taught these last 2000 years. Those who oppose this fact, are the one’s claiming to be right, and the Catholic church to be wrong. Trying to be religious? The Catholic church has been commissioned by Jesus to go out into all the world and proclaim the Gospel and baptize every nation and people and teach them all things Jesus has revealed about the Father in heaven.

The Catholic has been doing this now world wide for 2000 years now.

 

[cuzzyn17]

I am just trying to get views of Catholic believers from this site because I have been looking around on this site and it seems that most of the people here are not just people who play church on Sundays.(i am not trying to offend anyone or disprove anything but trying to understand) I grew up in a Catholic family and everything that I experienced in 18 years was do as i say because that is the way it is and you dont question it ,so I guess that is why I am curious as to some of the reasonings and ways.Also I have recently been saved and have had people of the Catholic faith tell me certain things about what I believe and practice that arent correct is it because I dont do it by the Catholic Churchs standards? While everything I believe and practice is taught out of the Bible . So I am by no means trying to attack or defend just trying to get some answers.

 

[1edyson]

I am just trying to get views of Catholic believers from this site because I have been looking around on this site and it seems that most of the people here are not just people who play church on Sundays.(i am not trying to offend anyone or disprove anything but trying to understand) I grew up in a Catholic family and everything that I experienced in 18 years was do as i say because that is the way it is and you dont question it ,so I guess that is why I am curious as to some of the reasonings and ways.Also I have recently been saved and have had people of the Catholic faith tell me certain things about what I believe and practice that arent correct is it because I dont do it by the Catholic Churchs standards? While everything I believe and practice is taught out of the Bible . So I am by no means trying to attack or defend just trying to get some answers.

Quick questions about your beliefs and practices from the Bible, how do you know that the Bible is the only source of where, we as Christians are to draw all our beliefs and practices from? What did all the early Christians use to know about their beliefs and practices before we had a complete Bible? And this is

 

[ricko]

I am just trying to get views of Catholic believers from this site because I have been looking around on this site and it seems that most of the people here are not just people who play church on Sundays.(i am not trying to offend anyone or disprove anything but trying to understand) I grew up in a Catholic family and everything that I experienced in 18 years was do as i say because that is the way it is and you dont question it ,so I guess that is why I am curious as to some of the reasonings and ways.Also I have recently been saved and have had people of the Catholic faith tell me certain things about** what I believe and practice **that arent correct is it because I dont do it by the Catholic Churchs standards? While **everything I believe and practice is taught out of the Bible **. So I am by no means trying to attack or defend just trying to get some answers.

The Catholic Church alone has been given the keys of heaven and earth, no other. You want everyone to be together but as above you want to be different. So is it that you want everyone to think the way YOU do? What makes your beliefs correct? Did Christ entrust the keys of the kingdom to you? So you reject the teachings of the Catholic Church and proclaim that you are doing what the bible says. Guess what, that’s the claim that thousands and millions make also, they claim they are going by what the bible teaches and the Holy Spirit is guiding THEM but they don’t believe the same things you believe and from the same bible! See the problem?

 

[red_eye_chimera]

The Catholic Church alone has been given the keys of heaven and earth, no other. You want everyone to be together but as above you want to be different. So is it that you want everyone to think the way YOU do? What makes your beliefs correct? Did Christ entrust the keys of the kingdom to you? So you reject the teachings of the Catholic Church and proclaim that you are doing what the bible says. Guess what, that’s the claim that thousands and millions make also, they claim they are going by what the bible teaches and the Holy Spirit is guiding THEM but they don’t believe the same things you believe and from the same bible! See the problem?

Whoa! I’m a Catholic Christian. I follow the traditions of the Catholic Church because I believe that they draw me closer to God and are the original trditions of the first Christians, but I do not see that it is wrong not to follow the Catholic laws. I’m one of the leaders of my school’s Fellowship of Christian Athletes, and I believe that anyone who believes in the Lord and follows him in discipleship through loving, knowing, and serving him, even protestant Christians. Salvation is only achieved through Jesus Christ. Second, we cannot judge who goes to heaven because Jesus is the judge of the living and the dead.

 

[Hisalone]

I am just trying to get views of Catholic believers from this site because I have been looking around on this site and it seems that most of the people here are not just people who play church on Sundays.(i am not trying to offend anyone or disprove anything but trying to understand) I grew up in a Catholic family and everything that I experienced in 18 years was do as i say because that is the way it is and you dont question it ,so I guess that is why I am curious as to some of the reasonings and ways.Also I have recently been saved and have had people of the Catholic faith tell me certain things about what I believe and practice that arent correct is it because I dont do it by the Catholic Churchs standards? While everything I believe and practice is taught out of the Bible . So I am by no means trying to attack or defend just trying to get some answers.

As you can see there are many unsubstantiated claims. From the profession of faith that Peter makes there are those that make the leap from build my church -----to pope------to infalibility-----to there is nosalvation outside of -----to he gave no one else the keys to the kingdom-------all becasue they have a need to be special.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

As you can see there are many unsubstantiated claims. From the profession of faith that Peter makes there are those that make the leap from build my church -----to pope------to infalibility-----to there is nosalvation outside of -----to he gave no one else the keys to the kingdom-------all becasue they have a need to be special.

Gabriel of 12:

So because the Catholic church has professed this faith for 2000 years now, you contest she is wrong, and you have it right, since when did your faith begin? What you yourself claim unsubstantial does not give you the infallibility to call what God has made unsubstantial.

Besides there are many other things Jesus did and revealed that are not written; That is why The Catholic church is here to reveal these Truth’s to everyone who will listen.

Jesus Christ is very special to Catholics, for he and the Father are one, just as Jesus and his body the Catholic church are one.

Peace be with you

 

[Protestant101]

Gabriel of 12:

The body of Jesus Christ lives in the Catholic church. This is believed and taught these last 2000 years. Those who oppose this fact, are the one’s claiming to be right, and the Catholic church to be wrong.

You are definitely off the mark in this post. Why the Catholic Church, through this forum and website even has a little booklet advertised supposedly about God’s Love; but really with the major focus of telling people why they should become Catholics instead of Protestants. For 2000 years Catholics have been trying to do this, tell people not to become Protestants, proving that Protestants have always existed, for as long as the Catholic Church has. It wasn’t called “Catholic” back then; neither was it called “Protestant” and yet we all know that they were there, in the Bible, and in other historical accounts. Jesus Himself was a Protestant, and I take great comfort in following our Lord down the same path.

 

[Protestant101]

The Catholic Church alone has been given the keys of heaven and earth, no other. You want everyone to be together but as above you want to be different. So is it that you want everyone to think the way YOU do? What makes your beliefs correct? Did Christ entrust the keys of the kingdom to you? So you reject the teachings of the Catholic Church and proclaim that you are doing what the bible says. Guess what, that’s the claim that thousands and millions make also, they claim they are going by what the bible teaches and the Holy Spirit is guiding THEM but they don’t believe the same things you believe and from the same bible! See the problem?

And you believe the Pope when he talks “unity” yet is really seeking submission to him?

The Bible is clear, Christ’s Church has always been represented by unity in diversity.

 

[ricko]

And you believe the Pope when he talks “unity” yet is really seeking submission to him?

The Bible is clear, Christ’s Church has always been represented by unity in diversity.

That would depend on what you mean by diversity. Since it is in the bible as you stated would you point out some examples of this diversity so I can know what you mean by it?

 

[ricko]

Whoa! I’m a Catholic Christian. I follow the traditions of the Catholic Church because I believe that they draw me closer to God and are the original trditions of the first Christians, but I do not see that it is wrong not to follow the Catholic laws. I’m one of the leaders of my school’s Fellowship of Christian Athletes, and I believe that anyone who believes in the Lord and follows him in discipleship through loving, knowing, and serving him, even protestant Christians. Salvation is only achieved through Jesus Christ. Second, we cannot judge who goes to heaven because Jesus is the judge of the living and the dead.

First off, you identify yourself as a “Catholic Christian”. Anyone who knows and understands the teachings of the Church would not call himself a “Catholic Christian” as Catholics are the original Christians. You can’t be a Catholic and not be a Christian, so it’s like saying you’re a “Christian Christian”. Second, a Catholic would never say that it’s ok not to follow the Catholic laws as you stated. As all Catholics know that the Church is Jesus on earth and not following the teachings of the Church is not following the teachings of Christ since the Church and Christ are one and the same. Third, you are correct that Jesus will judge us but how will he judge us? He established one Church for all men and for 1500 years there was only one Church. Now there are thousands of them teaching different teachings. Which are correct? Everyone says they are following Christ, if so, then there would be only one church not thousands. Are they following the teachings of Christ or their own personal beliefs? “Not everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved but he who does the will of the Father.” If these churches teach different things then how can they know what the will of the Father is? That’s why Jesus established his Church, which came to be called “Catholic” about 100Ad.

 

[SteveGC]

For 2000 years Catholics have been trying to do this, tell people not to become Protestants, proving that Protestants have always existed, for as long as the Catholic Church has. It wasn’t called “Catholic” back then; neither was it called “Protestant” and yet we all know that they were there, in the Bible, and in other historical accounts. Jesus Himself was a Protestant, and I take great comfort in following our Lord down the same path.

First of all, congratulations…on being probably the first person in history to call Jesus a Protestant. That’s pretty unique. I assume you are referring to the many accounts of Him correcting false religious practices in the Bible? This made him a Protestant? That’s quite interesting.

Secondly, I assume by saying “Catholics have been telling people not to become protestant” in this context, you are referring to “heresies”? So…your contention is that being separated from The Catholic Church today is justified, because since the beginning, the Catholic Church has fought off and condemned heretical belief? Just so I’m clear…because it’s a unique position, one I’ve never heard before. You would then say, therefore, that the many heresies that have historically taken place in Christianity, were, in fact, authentic Christian practices? They weren’t heresies at all? And The Church was itself the heresy, hypocritcally condemning other sects that weren’t inline with Her? Hmm. Well, there were dozens of them…which ones were actual heresy, and which ones weren’t? Were they all falsely condemned? Can you name them all? I can’t.

So, if the Catholic Church is incorrect, and you can’t p(name removed by moderator)oint the “heresies” that were falsely accused, and were in fact correct…what, or who do you follow? I mean, besides Jesus of course, whom we ALL follow. What teaching source? Just your Bible? What group of peope put that book together for you? Did they have a name, this group? I mean, if you hold the Bible as your sole authority, I would rationally expect that you, and all the other Bible-only’s, to be the “go-to” experts regarding the origin of the Bible. Could you give us a summary of that origin, so we can learn why our account of it is in error?

Along those lines…who taught you what you now hold to be true about Christianity? I know it wasn’t just you, the Spirit, and your Bible. No one can claim that. So, who’d you learn Christianity from? I assume it’s a long list of people and groups in your life. Why do you trust them, and not someone else that taught other Bible-only people something different from the Bible? I mean, how can you really trust what you’re being taught? Do you base your trust on the fact that you’ve “validated” from reading the Bible what these people have taught you? Do you then, discredit other Bible-only’s out there who claim the same “validation” technique, yet hold to a vastly different understanding of the Bible than you?

Sorry for the barrage of questions…but I’d really like to see a convincing argument as to how you authenticate your Christianity.

God Bless

 

[Protestant101]

Everyone says they are following Christ, if so, then there would be only one church not thousands. Are they following the teachings of Christ or their own personal beliefs? “Not everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved but he who does the will of the Father.” If these churches teach different things then how can they know what the will of the Father is? That’s why Jesus established his Church, which came to be called “Catholic” about 100Ad.

Jesus did establish His Church; but never once called it Catholic. He didn’t even hint at a denomination!

To say that if everyone did follow Christ then there would only be one Church is to put out the proverbial strawman argument that all denominations who wish to rule by authority, rather than truth will say. You cannot prove that statement of alleged cause and effect, all you can do is to claim it, and there are a thousand cults before you who try to say the same thing. “if everyone were truly following God, they would be like us.” Ya right!