The Church does allow you to engage in sexual relations with a spouse who is using birth control

[Leopard]

With regard to #1, not being open to life is an impediment to marriage so with this situation, the possibility exists that the marriage would not even be valid. In such a situation, all sexual activity would be sinful.

All marriages are presumed valid until proven otherwise, so one should not presume sexual intercourse between spouses to be sinful based on an unproven possibility that their marriage may be invalid.

In the event that such a marriage is later proven invalid, sexual intercourse between the spouses in the putative marriage during the time when it had not yet been proven invalid is presumed to have been done in the belief that the marriage was valid, and so is not presumed to be sinful.

 

[jkarp]

All marriages are presumed valid until proven otherwise, so one should not presume sexual intercourse between spouses to be sinful based on an unproven possibility that their marriage may be invalid.

In the event that such a marriage is later proven invalid, sexual intercourse between the spouses in the putative marriage during the time when it had not yet been proven invalid is presumed to have been done in the belief that the marriage was valid, and so is not presumed to be sinful.

Yes, you are absolutely right. The point I am trying to make is that this impediment should be worked out during the course of marriage preparation. A properly formed couple will know that this is a real barrier to their union and a potential cause for nullity.

 

[Leopard]

Yes, you are absolutely right. The point I am trying to make is that this impediment should be worked out during the course of marriage preparation. A properly formed couple will know that this is a real barrier to their union and a potential cause for nullity.

Yes, you are absolutely right about this. Have you ever considered helping couples prepare for marriage in your parish?

 

[jkarp]

Yes, you are absolutely right about this. Have you ever considered helping couples prepare for marriage in your parish?

Thanks! :blushing: I’d sure like to get involved with that sort of thing; we currently have a 6 month old (in addition to three other children) so time is a bit of an issue.

 

[aaronlgates]

If the wife is using chemical contraceptives, which can not only prevent conception, but can be abortifacient (causing an early abortion), then the husband would be a participant in circumstances essential to the commission of an intrinsically evil act. This would be immoral since it is immediate material cooperation in an intrinsically evil act.
ascensionhealth.org/ethics/public/key_principles/cooperation.asp

Also, the husband cannot use contraception himself, since the use of contraception is intrinsically evil; no intention or circumstance can justify it.

Well said!

 

[aaronlgates]

If the wife is using chemical contraceptives, which can not only prevent conception, but can be abortifacient (causing an early abortion), then the husband would be a participant in circumstances essential to the commission of an intrinsically evil act. This would be immoral since it is immediate material cooperation in an intrinsically evil act.
ascensionhealth.org/ethics/public/key_principles/cooperation.asp

Also, the husband cannot use contraception himself, since the use of contraception is intrinsically evil; no intention or circumstance can justify it.

Most definitely well said. This is in line with the Holy Fathers and the teaching of the Magisterium as well… though it may not have been explicitly articulated as above, your reasoning is true and(I believe) binding.

 

[Huiou_Theou]

Most definitely well said. This is in line with the Holy Fathers and the teaching of the Magisterium as well… though it may not have been explicitly articulated as above, your reasoning is true and(I believe) binding.

It is, although contraception, masturbation, etc. are also intrinsically disordered, and therefore evil. They are also mortal sins when the conscience is formed. The evil of abortion goes beyond the spiritual suicide of ones-self, as the case of the contracepting spouse though – it goes to the level of killing the defenseless. When Jesus said – turn your other cheek – he also meant defend the defenseless, widows, and orphans. It isn’t just the material cooperation in an evil act which is condemned here – but the child who is the image of God who is killed – which cries out to God.

 

[aaronlgates]

It is, although contraception, masturbation, etc. are also intrinsically disordered, and therefore evil. They are also mortal sins when the conscience is formed. The evil of abortion goes beyond the spiritual suicide of ones-self, as the case of the contracepting spouse though – it goes to the level of killing the defenseless. When Jesus said – turn your other cheek – he also meant defend the defenseless, widows, and orphans. It isn’t just the material cooperation in an evil act which is condemned here – but the child who is the image of God who is killed – which cries out to God.

Roger that. May the Lord have mercy on us all. Please open the eyes of your Church Dear Lord… and cause the leaders within to address this more fully in the Mass.

 

[martin1]

I’ve posted a couple of other things and as I read through the forums I see more things particular to my own married situation. We have been married over 11 years have two children and have a happy marriage. I am C of E & my wife is Catholic who is refinding her religion. When our second child was born (both by C section) our doctor informed us that it would be life threatening for both the next child and my wife were we to become pregnant again. My wife had her tubes tied as a result. Does that mean she is committing a sin each time we are intimate? Does it mean I’m sinning in being intimate with her, knowing that a potential child is being prevented. If she were to have a reversal and become pregnant then either my, unborn child or both pass away is my wife then “damned” (for want of a better word) for knowingly taking the risk of taking not only her life but that of the unborn child. Confused???

 

[Huiou_Theou]

I’ve posted a couple of other things and as I read through the forums I see more things particular to my own married situation. We have been married over 11 years have two children and have a happy marriage. I am C of E & my wife is Catholic who is refinding her religion. When our second child was born (both by C section) our doctor informed us that it would be life threatening for both the next child and my wife were we to become pregnant again. My wife had her tubes tied as a result. Does that mean she is committing a sin each time we are intimate? Does it mean I’m sinning in being intimate with her, knowing that a potential child is being prevented. If she were to have a reversal and become pregnant then either my, unborn child or both pass away is my wife then “damned” (for want of a better word) for knowingly taking the risk of taking not only her life but that of the unborn child. Confused???

I don’t know what C of E is exactly, but I assume it is non-catholic?

In any event, the situation you described only partially overlaps the one in this thread. As a Catholic, your wife would be expected to go to confession for one sin (having the tubes tied) after that, she has done nothing to sin (which is the topic of this thread). Since she isn’t actively contracepting anymore, and since reversal would cause other problems (not necessarily work, either). It probably is not required – only a good confession is required.

If the opposite situation had occured, say you had a vasectomy (which also is not 100% effective any more than having the tubes tied) your mixed faith would have had impact, and your wife would still be expected to fulfil her mariatal obligations. So, since your wife is not 100% protected from conceiving, you ought to consider the natural consequences of the tubal and discuss with your wife the relative risk of her conceiving in spite of it — out of love for her.

The problem of this thread arises particularly because each time one of the couple contracepts using a barrier method, there is a new action and therefore a new sin as opposed to a single sin.

Also, I don’t believe after a tubal – since the womb is unhurt – that your wife is at risk for aborting newly conceived babies (no eggs). But, if, an egg ever does make it down – there is a chance of your having a surprise pregnancy even if low.

Although that would be a high risk situation, ask your doctor how many people actually DIE (not including the baby) from C-section ruptures because they actaully conceive.
Although the miracle child might be lost, I am not aware that hospitals loose the mothers very often due to this cause (my sister is in the same situation – but no tubal.) There are clincs such as Mayo in Rochester, MN which have some surprisingly good doctors.

The problem is that doctors often advise based on legal liability, rather than based on statistical outcome. So, potential death gets exaggerated – even on commercials, today, the risk of “death” no matter how low – is commonly required when advertising medications as a “side” effect.

So sorry you two are in such a difficult situation, and I hope this bit of information helps.

You might want to start a thread to learn more about the topic in-depth, or use the ask an apologist section if you want a more official kind of answer.

God bless you.

–Andrew.

 

[Newbie2]

All marriages are presumed valid until proven otherwise, so one should not presume sexual intercourse between spouses to be sinful based on an unproven possibility that their marriage may be invalid.

In the event that such a marriage is later proven invalid, sexual intercourse between the spouses in the putative marriage during the time when it had not yet been proven invalid is presumed to have been done in the belief that the marriage was valid, and so is not presumed to be sinful.

Same reason for any kids resulting from such intercourse not being illegitimate if the marriage is later declared null.

 

[Seatuck]

I’ve posted a couple of other things and as I read through the forums I see more things particular to my own married situation. We have been married over 11 years have two children and have a happy marriage. I am C of E & my wife is Catholic who is refinding her religion. When our second child was born (both by C section) our doctor informed us that it would be life threatening for both the next child and my wife were we to become pregnant again. My wife had her tubes tied as a result. Does that mean she is committing a sin each time we are intimate? Does it mean I’m sinning in being intimate with her, knowing that a potential child is being prevented. If she were to have a reversal and become pregnant then either my, unborn child or both pass away is my wife then “damned” (for want of a better word) for knowingly taking the risk of taking not only her life but that of the unborn child. Confused???

This question is really thread drift but I’ll answer it anyway.I’m really not sure of the relation to the thread.

I’m sorry but your wife comitted a mortal sin by having the tubal unless of course she was unaware of that being a mortal sin. She should go to confession for it to be sure and discuss her moral culpability with the priest. I don’t believe that every marital act after is a mortal sin. We are allowed to practice strict NFP in such a situation where the mothers life may be in danger . Or abstinence until such time has passed.
Many couples after coming to understand the sinfullness of a sterilization procedure will practice NFP and abstain on the days they would be fertile as an act of reparation. Reversal of the procedure is not required for absolution but couples who believe they are called to do so may certainly do that. It is a matter of discernment and prayer and perhaps spiritual direction as to whether the couple would chose reversal or not.

 

[R4G03]

In response to the question of wether or not the husband would be commiting a sin if he had relations with his wife if he knew she was on birth control and has tried to dissuade her from using it.

I’m a living example of this issue today. My fiance has been keeping track of her NFP charts and has come to realize that she will be fertile during our honeymoon. Neither of us is ready to have a child yet because she’s still in school and i’ll be deploying back to Iraq soon. So she wants to use birth control. I tried my hardest to dissuade her from making that decision; she listened to what i had to say but i feel it only made her more bitter and stubborn. I talked to a priest about it and he said that ultimately the decision is hers and that i wouldn’t be commiting any sin if we did have marital relations. Now, since the Pill is both a contraceptive and an abortifacient, would it be wrong for me to have relations with my future wife if it ended up being the latter. But then again, there’s really no certain way to tell wether the Pill ended up working as a contraceptive or an abortifacient. Can anyone shed some light on my situation?

 

[mcs7474]

All marriages are presumed valid until proven otherwise, so one should not presume sexual intercourse between spouses to be sinful based on an unproven possibility that their marriage may be invalid.

In the event that such a marriage is later proven invalid, sexual intercourse between the spouses in the putative marriage during the time when it had not yet been proven invalid is presumed to have been done in the belief that the marriage was valid, and so is not presumed to be sinful.

You are correct Sir

 

[Serap]

I also have a unique situation that I plan on discussing with a priest at my next confession.

My husband is a non-practicing cradle Catholic - his opinion is that the Catholic church is a corrupt organized religion. Because he is very hard headed, I have to gradually and gently persuade him otherwise.

I am newly returned to the church (really this year) and am educating myself about Catechism. I completed the RCIA 12 years ago, but left the church afterwards, so there’s still much for me to learn.

Here’s the thing: I used to be on the pill before we got married as I wasn’t religious then. I went off the pill a year before we got married to get myself ready to conceive. I began using a female barrier method as my husband absolutely refuses to use condoms.

I am trying to use NFP and the past two months, I have been successful. During my fertile time, I avoid intercourse and when my fertile period is over, I then initiate intercourse. When he asks me why I’m not using my contraceptive, and I tell him, it’s because I’m no longer fertile and he’s ok with that. Remember, he is very heard headed (but kind hearted and wonderful and I have to tread lightly about my beliefs and influencing his beliefs.

My problem is that if he initiates intercourse during my fertile time, I don’t want to reject him. Because my husband is not religious, I don’t want him to resort to other methods to satisfy himself as I believe they are more severe and honestly, I think that would hurt our marriage over time as my husband is easily hurt.

Also, harmony in our marriage not only affects me and my DH, it also greatly affects our baby daughter. She’s a very sensitive soul (takes after her mother) and it would also have a detrimental affect on her happiness. Her happiness; I would die for in a second.

Because he refuses to use contraception and requests that I use my barrier method; during these episodes, I would resort to using contraception.

I don’t believe in good consciousness that this would be a mortal sin because I am doing everything to avoid near occassion of sin for myself and my DH. I am definitely in sin, but given the circumstances, I don’t believe it’s mortal.

I am going to discuss this at my next confession though…like I said, I haven’t used contraceptives for 2 cycles and I’m dreading the month where is wants to have intercourse during my fertile time. I feel torn and because I am not close to my own family, my marriage and my daughter is all I have in this world.

 

[aaronlgates]

If the wife is using chemical contraceptives, which can not only prevent conception, but can be abortifacient (causing an early abortion), then the husband would be a participant in circumstances essential to the commission of an intrinsically evil act. This would be immoral since it is immediate material cooperation in an intrinsically evil act.
ascensionhealth.org/ethics/public/key_principles/cooperation.asp

Also, the husband cannot use contraception himself, since the use of contraception is intrinsically evil; no intention or circumstance can justify it.

THIS is where we need to concentrate here. The Church CANNOT and WILL NOT justify the killing of the innocent. It is grave sin to knowingly cooperate in an act that can lead to the killing of the innocent, and cooperating in the sex act that can lead to the chemical killing of the innocent is grave.

When we are discussing other more shameful practices that frustrate the procreative act(barrier methods, exclusive anal/oral sex, etc.) then the issue is less grave. In this case, while the procreative act is being frustrated, the chemical killing of the innocent is not occurring.

THINK.

THINK!

Be careful of saying what itching ears want to hear. If you morally justify the potential killing of the innocent in this forum or anywhere else, then you have become a partner in sin as well. Very grave sin.

There are many who are looking for a definitive answer on this issue, and the Church has spoken against this evil again and again. There are many still who are looking for an excuse to continue in their sin and there are some within this thread who would, perhaps unwittingly, help them towards this aim… effectively holding their hand on their journey towards eternal damnation.

Sometimes we need not look for specific statements from the Church, but look at the surrounding principles using common sense to determine the truth. This is not to say that the Church hasn’t spoken definitively on this subject. She has! And the sin of chemical abortion is evil!

Likewise, the act of attempting to conceive a child knowing that the child will be aborted is EVIL.

The marital act is always, to the Catholic, an act with the intent of procreation. If one performs this act with the knowledge that the conceived child(that they are intending to conceive by definition) will be killed… this is gravely sinful.

Such a wicked and adulterous generation that we live in.

 

[Fr_Matt]

**For anyone who is having problems decerning the truth, as it pertains to this question, and The teachings of the church, I would ask you to read the Late John Paul II encyclical ‘The theology of the body’. **

 

[Serap]

**For anyone who is having problems decerning the truth, as it pertains to this question, and The teachings of the church, I would ask you to read the Late John Paul II encyclical ‘The theology of the body’. **

Yes and Humanae Vitae teaches based on the assumption that both persons are guided by the Holy Spirit.

This thread is to address couples where one is not a believer of Humanae Vitae.