The Church elected both the anti and real Pope?

[bcullum]

Did the same Cardinals elect the anit-pope and the real Pope?

I was told today that when St Catherine of Siena went to France to bring the Pope home to Rome he did but shortly there after died…the college of cardinals elected a Pope under duress and fear of death by the Italian mobs in Rome. Shortly after the election the same cardinal got together and elected another Pope which was French and this is where we could have lost our apostolic succession?

I asked if that was the case, what about those 1500yrs of doctrine which is still practiced in the Church today? He has a real problem with the authority of the Pope and doesn’t believe that authority was passed from Peter or went below the first apostles regardless what documented proof I show him. His current stand is this anti-pope issue. Any suggestions?

 

[John_Higgins]

Typically, especially during the Great Western Schism, each group had their own cardinals. There were three: Pisa, Avignon, and Rome. Each supposed Pope created cardinals. When the Church had a united conclave and elected Martin V in 1417, he ratified all the cardinal appointment and ordinations. He even appointed the so-called John XXIII to be the senior cardinal-bishop. In some case individual cardinals could have voted for popes and antipopes.

John

 

[peary]

Typically, especially during the Great Western Schism, each group had their own cardinals. There were three: Pisa, Avignon, and Rome. Each supposed Pope created cardinals. When the Church had a united conclave and elected Martin V in 1417, he ratified all the cardinal appointment and ordinations. He even appointed the so-called John XXIII to be the senior cardinal-bishop. In some case individual cardinals could have voted for popes and antipopes.

John

I don’t think the Church could ever elect an ‘anti-pope’. All three at the time were sincere men of God, and all were from apostolic succession, but this goes to show you what happens when politics get in the way. The miracle of it all is that the situation was resolved and the papacy continued and is in strong shape, even today.

 

[Spirithound]

Shortly after the election the same cardinal got together and elected another Pope which was French and this is where we could have lost our apostolic succession?

Apostolic succession only refers to the fact that each bishop is consecrated a bishop by at least one other bishop, and these lines trace back to the Apostles. The papal office does not require the previous bishop of Rome to consecrate the next.

 

[peary]

Apostolic succession only refers to the fact that each bishop is consecrated a bishop by at least one other bishop, and these lines trace back to the Apostles. The papal office does not require the previous bishop of Rome to consecrate the next.

Re-read my answer.

 

[terillmorris]

Did the same Cardinals elect the anit-pope and the real Pope?

I was told today that when St Catherine of Siena went to France to bring the Pope home to Rome he did but shortly there after died…the college of cardinals elected a Pope under duress and fear of death by the Italian mobs in Rome. Shortly after the election the same cardinal got together and elected another Pope which was French and this is where we could have lost our apostolic succession?

I asked if that was the case, what about those 1500yrs of doctrine which is still practiced in the Church today? He has a real problem with the authority of the Pope and doesn’t believe that authority was passed from Peter or went below the first apostles regardless what documented proof I show him. His current stand is this anti-pope issue. Any suggestions?

You are incorrect in what you heard. The Cardinals did elect Urban VI in April of 1378 and there was pressure from the Roman mob to elect an Italian, the Cardinals elected Urban freely. We know this because the next day they returned and confirmed Urban’s election. It was not until after when they didnt like Urban’s style of “rule” and also didnt like the Italian hot summers that they decided “he wasnt Pope.” Which obviously they didnt have the power to do. Urban VI was the valid Pope all along.