The Church Fathers on the Devil and demons

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I am currently in a debate on whether or not the Devil and demons actually exist. I was looking for sources and am struggling to find positions taken by the Church Fathers and other early Christians on the matter. Can anyone help me on this?
 
Alvarillo said:
I am currently in a debate on whether or not the Devil and demons actually exist. I was looking for sources and am struggling to find positions taken by the Church Fathers and other early Christians on the matter. Can anyone help me on this?
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Why does your religion state catholic? Read the Gospel of our Lord and tell me what you think. OF COURSE they exist they are our main enemy. Possession and physical manifestations, while not as rare as some think, are rare. The real threat is the thoughts they are allowed to plant in your mind. Your thoughts are not always your own. You are a vessel for the Holy Spirit. Sometimes the enemy tries to steal that vessel.

Please read the Gospel it will change your life. Make sure to understand every last passage or you give the devil a victory. Read the Parable of the Seeds first. Understand that parable. Read it 10 times. Then read the rest of the Gospel. I think starting with Matthew is a good idea. Just read ONE gospel they are not that long it is just one day of your life to change your entire life.

EDIT: It is hard to believe in Christ and not believe the devil and demons exist. The reason he came here was to destroy their work and save us from the judgment of our Father for our sins.
 
13 That same day Jesus went out of the house and sat by the lake. 2 Such large crowds gathered around him that he got into a boat and sat in it, while all the people stood on the shore. 3 Then he told them many things in parables, saying: “A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4 As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5 Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6 But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7 Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants. 8 Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop—a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown. 9 Whoever has ears, let them hear.”

10 The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”

11 He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12 Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 13 This is why I speak to them in parables:

“Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand.

14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:

“‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15 For this people’s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.’[a]

16 But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. 17 For truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.

18 “Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: 19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20 The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 22 The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. 23 But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”
 
Want to know why the evil in the world is allowed to continue? Here is the answer to why the creator of the entire universe allows it to continue.

24 Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.

27 “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’

28 “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.

“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’

29 “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”
 
You cannot be an exorcist without being a priest… I wonder what that says the priests think…
 
Alvarillo said:
I am currently in a debate on whether or not the Devil and demons actually exist. I was looking for sources and am struggling to find positions taken by the Church Fathers and other early Christians on the matter. Can anyone help me on this?
Click to expand...
You can start by reading the apologies of St. Justin Martyr:

newadvent.org/fathers/0126.htm

newadvent.org/fathers/0127.htm

Here are a couple of excerpts:

“for these things also He evidently made for man— committed the care of men and of all things under heaven to angels whom He appointed over them. But the angels transgressed this appointment, and were captivated by love of women, and begot children who are those that are called demons;”
[Second Apology of Justin Martyr, Chapter 5]

" For the truth shall be spoken; since of old these evil demons, effecting apparitions of themselves, both defiled women and corrupted boys, and showed such fearful sights to men, that those who did not use their reason in judging of the actions that were done, were struck with terror; and being carried away by fear, and not knowing that these were demons, they called them gods, and gave to each the name which each of the demons chose for himself."
[First Apology of St. Justin Martyr, Chapter 5]
 
FaithInTheSon said:
Why does your religion state catholic? Read the Gospel of our Lord and tell me what you think. OF COURSE they exist they are our main enemy.
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I think perhaps you misunderstood my question, I am sorry if I was not clear enough. My religion states I am Catholic because I am. I affirm every last teaching of the Church including the existence of both angels and the devil and demons. This is what I am defending in the course of the debate I mentioned and I was looking for resources on what the Fathers of the Church and other early Christians had to say on the issue.

I hope this is clearer.
 
Oh. I didn’t realize why you meant by debate. Debating with youself/a friend or that kind. Well my intentions were good anyways.

There is a lot of video evidence of demonic posession… Be careful if you read demonology literature it is dangerous. Most non-believers won’t be convinced by words they have to meet one. Even then…they might end up worshiping it if you can believe that.

The evidence of the existence of angels is everywhere every day… They are much better at their jobs than demons and remain hidden.
 
Alvarillo said:
I am currently in a debate on whether or not the Devil and demons actually exist. I was looking for sources and am struggling to find positions taken by the Church Fathers and other early Christians on the matter. Can anyone help me on this?
Click to expand...
You can’t prove it except through Scripture and Revelation. If your opponent will not accept these then he will not believe in Angels and Demons.

Just don’t make the mistake of trying to " reason " to their existence.

St. Thomas showed that it was not contrary to reason to demonstrate the possibility of such beings but said you cannot prove it. He approached it this way. Given the hierarchical order of existence it was reasonable that God created intelligent spiritual beings between man, the rational animal, and God who is pure intellectual spirit, eternal and unlimited in being. 👍
 
Linusthe2nd said:
You can’t prove it except through Scripture and Revelation. If your opponent will not accept these then he will not believe in Angels and Demons.

Just don’t make the mistake of trying to " reason " to their existence.

St. Thomas showed that it was not contrary to reason to demonstrate the possibility of such beings but said you cannot prove it. He approached it this way. Given the hierarchical order of existence it was reasonable that God created intelligent spiritual beings between man, the rational animal, and God who is pure intellectual spirit, eternal and unlimited in being. 👍
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Nice.
 
Alvarillo said:
I am currently in a debate on whether or not the Devil and demons actually exist. I was looking for sources and am struggling to find positions taken by the Church Fathers and other early Christians on the matter. Can anyone help me on this?
Click to expand...
newadvent.org/cathen/01476d.htm

newadvent.org/cathen/01476d.htm

St. Justin, Apol. I 6: Athenagoras, Suppl 10; Pseudo-Dionysius, De coelesti hierarchia; St Augustine and St. Gregory. You will have to do your own research.

However, it is defined Catholic Dogma that both exist. Is your objector Catholic?

👍
 
Linusthe2nd said:
newadvent.org/cathen/01476d.htm

newadvent.org/cathen/01476d.htm

St. Justin, Apol. I 6: Athenagoras, Suppl 10; Pseudo-Dionysius, De coelesti hierarchia; St Augustine and St. Gregory. You will have to do your own research.

However, it is defined Catholic Dogma that both exist. Is your objector Catholic?

👍
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Thank you, this is quite useful. I’m afraid he is not Catholic. He is a Christian, however, and in addition to the Bible, he agreed that the testimony of the early Christians could be used as a valuable guide to interpreting scripture, so I will include the Church Fathers in this one.
 
FaithInTheSon said:
Oh. I didn’t realize why you meant by debate. Debating with youself/a friend or that kind. Well my intentions were good anyways.
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No worries, friend, I took your words for their intention and thank you for them. I will also take heed of your cautionary advice, as I feel no inclination to get to close to anything remotely demonic. I am neither holy enough or smart enough to get the better of that encounter.
 
None of us are. It is the Lord who handles the encounter for us.

If your objector is Christian then I am sure he is familiar with the gospel? Is he one of those that think “demon”/ “fallen angel” is figurative? He must have thrown the old testament out to do that. Our Lord specifically says every prophecy in the old testament is true.
 
Alvarillo said:
I am currently in a debate on whether or not the Devil and demons actually exist. I was looking for sources and am struggling to find positions taken by the Church Fathers and other early Christians on the matter. Can anyone help me on this?
Click to expand...
Alvarillo. Read in the Catechism of the Catholic Church…

**II. THE FALL OF THE ANGELS

391 Behind the disobedient choice of our first parents lurks a seductive voice, opposed to God, which makes them fall into death out of envy.266 Scripture and the Church’s Tradition see in this being a fallen angel, called “Satan” or the “devil”.267 The Church teaches that Satan was at first a good angel, made by God: "The devil and the other demons were indeed created naturally good by God, but they became evil by their own doing."268

392 Scripture speaks of a sin of these angels.269 This “fall” consists in the free choice of these created spirits, who radically and irrevocably rejected God and his reign. We find a reflection of that rebellion in the tempter’s words to our first parents: "You will be like God."270 The devil “has sinned from the beginning”; he is “a liar and the father of lies”.271

393 It is the irrevocable character of their choice, and not a defect in the infinite divine mercy, that makes the angels’ sin unforgivable. "There is no repentance for the angels after their fall, just as there is no repentance for men after death."272

394 Scripture witnesses to the disastrous influence of the one Jesus calls “a murderer from the beginning”, who would even try to divert Jesus from the mission received from his Father.273 "The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil."274 In its consequences the gravest of these works was the mendacious seduction that led man to disobey God.

395 The power of Satan is, nonetheless, not infinite. He is only a creature, powerful from the fact that he is pure spirit, but still a creature. He cannot prevent the building up of God’s reign. Although Satan may act in the world out of hatred for God and his kingdom in Christ Jesus, and although his action may cause grave injuries - of a spiritual nature and, indirectly, even of a physical nature- to each man and to society, the action is permitted by divine providence which with strength and gentleness guides human and cosmic history. It is a great mystery that providence should permit diabolical activity, but "we know that in everything God works for good with those who love him.

…IN BRIEF

414 Satan or the devil and the other demons are fallen angels who have freely refused to serve God and his plan. Their choice against God is definitive. They try to associate man in their revolt against God. **

Catechism > vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s2c1p7.htm

God bless
 
Alvarillo said:
I am currently in a debate on whether or not the Devil and demons actually exist. I was looking for sources and am struggling to find positions taken by the Church Fathers and other early Christians on the matter. Can anyone help me on this?
Click to expand...
What church does your friend attend or is he a member of? Curious…
 
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