"The Church in Crisis" new book

[Phillip_Rolfes]

Much harm has come from resisting legitimate (even imperfect) Catholic authority.

Children are defying parents, students are defying teachers, couples are defying Church authority by moving in together without getting married. The LCWR resists bishops.

Laity defy canon law and set up media “ministries” unaffiliated with the Church. Lots of that “resist” going around.

I completely agree with you!

I find it ironic that those who are loudest about denouncing the “confusion” coming out of Rome today are not infrequently sources of confusion themselves - particularly when it comes to interpreting what’s coming out of Rome.

 

[MarysLurker]

Without getting into details, he is pushing “tribulations” and general end times type stuff.

I have the book right now and there is not a word about the end times or tribulations.

There are endorsements on the first page from:
Gerard Cardinal Mueller, former prefect of the CDF
Bp. Scott McCaig, Military Ordinary of Canada
Fr. Peter Ryan, SJ (yes, a Jesuit!), former executive director of the USCCB doctrine committee
Msgr. Andrew Cummings, director of formation at Mt. St. Mary’s Seminary
And several distinguished laypeople.

Here is the table of contents.
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[MarysLurker]

We are to resist the legitimate authorities in the Church - those whom God has placed over us? Really?

This is not a fair characterization of Mr. Martin’s position. Here is what he actually says about Pope Francis.

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[Phillip_Rolfes]

This is not a fair characterization of Mr. Martin’s position. Here is what he actually says about Pope Francis.

My comment was geared more toward the Michael Voris and Taylor Marshall types. Thank God Dr. Martin holds a more balanced view. I’ve appreciated much of his work in the past, particularly his Fulfillment of All Desire. I understand he takes a more Augustinian view of the number of souls saved, which, as an Eastern Christian, I’d likely disagree with him on. But overall his work has always been pretty solid, and my differences with him are disagreements on non-dogmatic matters.

Based off of the passage you cited (and thank you for doing so!), it looks like Dr. Martin and I are in agreement in regard to the the ironic damage and confusion caused by those who are loudest about denouncing the “damage and confusion” coming out of Rome.

 

[commenter]

Martin’s passage on Pope Francis is my own view. He could have doubled the sales of this book if he had separated from the current, living Magisterium as so much of the non-Catholic affiliated media have done, Left or Right. Martin has remained Catholic affiliated.

As a young man I saw many Catholic Charismatics tempted to Pentecostal churches, remain in the Catholic Church because of Martin. Those that did leave ended up switching around, (still claiming to be Catholic) and did not seem to develop fruitful ministries.

I see a similar pattern happening now, with a “hermeneutics of suspicion” pushed by the websites. They start by opposing “bad hierarchy”, end up by opposing all hierarchy. But they claim to be still Catholic.

There are more “thrills and chills” if you switch to Church Militant or Full Gospel Tabernacle. That’s not what Martin offers.

 

[otjm]

I have seen his posts shared through various Catholic Facebook pages and I had no idea who he was or why anyone even bothered to read his prophecies given that he wasn’t a priest or religious.

My recoillection is that the children at Fatima were neither priests nor religious, either.

Just an observation.

 

[MarysLurker]

I’ve gotten far enough to see Martin’s core proposition.

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[commenter]

I’ve gotten far enough to see Martin’s core proposition.

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Although this passage refers to misguided efforts by Traditionalists, keep in mind since 1971 he has been addressing the issue of liberals watering down doctrine, or hijacking the Catholic label to market their own political agenda.

Unfortunately, in justifiable frustration over the liberals and inadequate (especially in 1970s and 80s) response by the hierarchy, too many gifted Catholics have stepped outside Church affiliation, now via the internet. But a reactionary response is always an irrational response.

Martin didn’t minimize the problem, but encouraged lay action by ministries within the Church, rather than outside the Church (Taylor Marshall, CM, LSN, 1p5, Rorate, etc, ministries that are outside, even though individuals are not outside).

It takes more work and patience, but in the long run working from within is the only way.

 

[MarysLurker]

Although this passage refers to misguided efforts by Traditionalists, keep in mind since 1971 he has been addressing the issue of liberals watering down doctrine, or hijacking the Catholic label to market their own political agenda.

Yes. And on the previous page he talked about the liberals as the other extreme.

 

[praytell]

Catholic Culture has a review of the book if you are interested:

Mapping the Crisis: Ralph Martin’s blockbuster of a book | Catholic Culture