The Church Is a Mess, and the SSPX Situation Is Driving That Home

[StudentMI]

I found this a very perceptive article. I myself am done with Church Militant.

https://onepeterfive.com/the-church...&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=socialnetwork

 

[adamhovey1988]

You should really read what Dave Armstrong says about it, they tend to blow things out of proportion, you need to see another side.

 

[StudentMI]

I’d love to. Is he here on CA? I’ve seen the name before.

 

[Weserthy]

I agree with much of this article. I don’t read Church Militant regularly, though I do read articles from them that interest me when they pop up on my news feed, as I do with almost all religious news sites, even “catholic” ones like National Catholic Reporter. I agree with a lot of Voris’ viewpoints that Church Militant writes about and concur with him that there are a not insignificant number of bishops in the Church that passively or actively promote ideas and theology contrary to Catholicism, notably about homosexuality, and that there are major problems in the hierarchy that the bishops as a whole and Rome refuse to address.

That being said, I wish Church Militant would editorialize less in its writing, and this SSPX report has made it more clear than ever that they are their own worst enemy when attempting to advance their agenda and investigate problems in the Church. This SSPX report, if the facts in it are true, could have been explosive and could have even possibly gained CM some respect with some of their harshest critics if they had refrained from injecting their commentary and insults into their writing in the report and on their website. They are in dire need of reflecting on their methods and considering if a change in tactics is warranted. They have the right aims and ideas in many respects, but Voris and CM will never succeed if they can’t stop getting in their own way and can’t just stick to the facts in their writing. I think an entity like CM doing investigative reports on Catholic Church activities could be a great asset to the Church, and as much as some people won’t admit, including the bishops in the Church, an organization like CM needs to exist and fills a void that the bishops and hierarchy failed to fill when they let the sexual abuse scandals in the Church endure for so long, and in some places allow it to endure. Church Militant may have burned too many bridges at this point, but I think either they or another entity like them can maybe fulfill such a mandate.

As to the article in the OP, I think the overall situation in the Church has really been exacerbated by the coronavirus, and things are only going to get worse from here. Aside from all of the doctrinal disputes, questionable synods, and things of that nature, the Church is going to be hurting for material needs over the next couple of years. People who were not serious in their Catholicism are likely to permanently stop going to mass and collection amounts might never return to their previous levels. Parishes will close in the coming years solely because of the economic windfall from coronavirus lockdowns. The Church is being assaulted on all fronts, spiritually and materially, and it isn’t likely to recover anytime soon.

 

[steph03]

 

[gracepoole]

I am no fan of CM. I want to gently note that One Peter Five has its own beefs with CM, though. Steve Skojec, 1P5’s founder and editor, regularly brings up their past run-in when criticizing CM on Twitter. It may be that neither outfit is objective in this discussion.

I think what the current fight over the SSPX actually reveals, in part, is the problematic nature of most Catholic commentators. As faithful, we’re often distrustful of the hierarchy due to recent scandals. But we should be extremely wary of placing our trust in self-appointed watchdogs, too.

 

[StudentMI]

I agree. One Peter Five has it’s agenda. Just reading through a couple of their recent articles reiterated that. They have a lot of the same problems as Taylor Marshall. The Church changed on this and that which is a better argument for atheism than anything. Or saying a Council isn’t infallible which raises the question of why Trent was, or why this encyclical from 1898 is infallible but one from 2008 isn’t. It’s stupid, really.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Read the first line and a half…yet another over-the-top frothing-at-the-mouth Pope-bashing article…scrolling to next topic.

There are occasionally good, helpful articles on OnePeterFive. This isn’t one of them.

 

[Crusader13]

The article has some good insight. I know CM has broken some good stories with reference to corruption and other scandals, so I don’t want to dismiss the allegations of abuse, but unfortunately CM seems to have made this story rather personal.

You can see the difference in their writing too. In the past they focused on the individuals and groups of clergy that were associated with them, but they didn’t blame the entire church as a whole for the actions of men like McCarrick and others.

In their recent stories however you don’t see that distinction. Instead of the individuals that are being accused, you see more of a focus on the SSPX as a whole.

 

[Irishmom2]

Yeah, didn’t read past the first line. It wasn’t a good sign of what else was to come, so, no.

 

[Emeraldlady]

It’s as inevitable as taxes and death that extremists will eventually turn on each other and self destruct. The article itself was just a litany of hopelessness and doom. The greatest attribute of the gospel is hope. That’s how to identify a true Catholic apologetics. 1 Peter 5 should change there name to 1 Peter 3 15 Do not fear what they fear, and do not be intimidated,but in your hearts sanctify Christ as Lord. Always be ready to make your defense to anyone who demands from you an accounting for the hope that is in you; 16 yet do it with gentleness and reverence.

 

[InThePew]

Is anyone else amused by the irony of an article which decries infighting, entrenched positions and tribalism opening with a chest-thumping criticism of Pope Francis?

 

[Margaret_Ann]

This is a pretty balanced article imo.

The SSPX priests I know are devout, holy priests who literally go the extra mile for people who need their help.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

This is a pretty balanced article imo.

Here is the beginning of the article. This is not “balanced”. It is Pope-bashing garbage.
I didn’t even get to whatever the article says about the SSPX because any article that starts out like this is not worth my time to read.

It’s 2020, and right now, the Catholic Church looks like a giant dumpster fire.

For the past seven years, we’ve had a pope who has seemed hell-bent — literally — on undermining or even directly contradicting the truths of the faith. From Amoris Laetitia to Abu Dhabi to the attempt to change the teaching on the death penalty (with all the attendant ramifications), the issues are numerous and very serious. The pages of this website are full of documentation and analysis on these topics. And to make matters worse, our pope has personally protected clerical abusers while paying lip-service to a “zero tolerance” policy.

As if that all weren’t exhausting enough, we came into this year on the tail end of a synod that featured idolatry, near-pantheistic environmentalism, and a serious debate over the prospect of doing away with clerical celibacy and adding women to Holy Orders.

If someone posted trash like this on the forum, it would be flagged and removed. It is a giant insult to our Pope.
How can you think this is a “balanced” article?

 

[tommy37]

Very good analysis! You’ve said everything I’ve felt about CM but haven’t been able to put into words!

 

[Dovekin]

Be sober and vigilant. Your opponent the devil is prowling around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.
1 Peter 5:8

I have read a couple of articles at onepeterfive. Now I just take their name as a warning to stay away, so I will not get devoured.

 

[commenter]

Just a reminder, neither CM nor 1p5 are affiliated with the Catholic Church, though they imply they are and seek donations from Catholics.

A few decades ago most Catholics were more skeptical about Catholic sounding organizations that are not actually such.

 

[EXdrinker]

Just a reminder, neither CM nor 1p5 are affiliated with the Catholic Church, though they imply they are and seek donations from Catholics.

You seem too tied up with the fact that they are not an “official” apostolate with approval of their ordinary. There are many good organizations that are not official apostolates. They are both affiliated with the catholic church in the fact that they are members of the body and have the same goals as the church. Simply because they have ruffled the feathers of some of the bishops by calling out perceived evil and gross imcompetence(very much of which is truly diabolical) does not mean that they are not affiliated with the catholiic church.

 

[commenter]

commenter:

Just a reminder, neither CM nor 1p5 are affiliated with the Catholic Church, though they imply they are and seek donations from Catholics.

You seem too tied up with the fact that they are not an “official” apostolate with approval of their ordinary. There are many good organizations that are not official apostolates. They are both affiliated with the catholic church in the fact that they are members of the body and have the same goals as the church.

The same thing can be said for other
groups, all of which have Catholics:

• Catholics for Choice
• Call to Action
• Chick Publications - part of their ministry is directed at Catholics
• Mission to Catholics (similar fundamentalist, baptized Catholics)
• Mainstream media Religion Reporters
• Sedevacantist sites

Different? Well their position on the bishops is similar.

 

[Crusader13]

Here is the beginning of the article. This is not “balanced”. It is Pope-bashing garbage.

Well that’s your opinion. But the Church is a mess and the Pope hasn’t really raised the bar in terms of clarification and unity.

You may find the opening paragraphs too hostile to read but the entire article is about much more than just what you highlighted.