The Church of Jesus Christ was never in apostacy?

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peary said:
I had a Baptist tell me that the Catholic Church fell into apostasy when the emperor Constantine became pope and called a Council!
:rotfl:
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Now thats funny, lol thanks I needed a laugh!
 
justasking4 said:
What is your definition of Sola Scriptura?
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I’d like to know the *official *definition of sola scripture so I wouldn’t be shooting at a moving target all of the time. Does one exist? I know you can’t find one in the Bible, so is there one somewhere else? If you claim sola scriptura *is *found in the Bible, would you kindly give chapter and verse then break that down for me as to how you come to sola scriptura?
 
Not actually.

Sola Scriptura is heresy if taught by someone in the Catholic Church.( ie. luther) after he was excommunicated, it was just plain scandalous.

Sola Scriptura is any claimed authority, from scripture, apart from the one Church Christ built. This church is the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic church located in Italy in Vatican City.

Any other religion claiming authority from the scriptures, and interpreting the scriptures apart from the magesterium of the Catholic Church, is utilizing the false doctrine of sola scriptura in some way, shape or form.
 
Lampo said:
I’d like to know the *official *definition of sola scripture so I wouldn’t be shooting at a moving target all of the time. Does one exist? I know you can’t find one in the Bible, so is there one somewhere else? If you claim sola scriptura *is *found in the Bible, would you kindly give chapter and verse then break that down for me as to how you come to sola scriptura?
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**Sola scriptura **(Latin ablative, “by scripture alone”) is the assertion that the Bible as God’s written word is self-authenticating, clear (perspicuous) to the rational reader, its own interpreter (“Scripture interprets Scripture”), and sufficient of itself to be the final authority of Christian doctrine.
 
that is a good definition of the false and divisive doctrine.
 
peary said:
**Sola scriptura **(Latin ablative, “by scripture alone”) is the assertion that the Bible as God’s written word is self-authenticating, clear (perspicuous) to the rational reader, its own interpreter (“Scripture interprets Scripture”), and sufficient of itself to be the final authority of Christian doctrine.
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Is this the definition all Protestants use and the one I can use as my base?
 
Lampo said:
Is this the definition all Protestants use and the one I can use as my base?
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I do not think so.

It is impossible to keep up with what each and every protestant religion teaches in their private theology, since there are so many and since individuals make up the rules, and doctrines according to their own interpretation of scripture. Besides, there are thousands of new religions calling themselves “Christian” that do not even have a phone number, a listing in the phone book, or even a congregation, because they are so brand new. Most do not stick around long, especially those that you see pop up in the strip mall, and then disappear a short time later.

How could we even begin to try to know what they teach in their new and invented religion?
 
justinthemartyr said:
Not actually.

Sola Scriptura is heresy if taught by someone in the Catholic Church.( ie. luther) after he was excommunicated, it was just plain scandalous.

Sola Scriptura is any claimed authority, from scripture, apart from the one Church Christ built. This church is the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic church located in Italy in Vatican City.

Any other religion claiming authority from the scriptures, and interpreting the scriptures apart from the magesterium of the Catholic Church, is utilizing the false doctrine of sola scriptura in some way, shape or form.
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No we have talked about the apostasy that was taught that a person could buy a loved one out of purgatory for a price.
The apostasy that a person could buy a position of bishop or cardinal for a price. The practice of on could become a prince if they paid the pope enough. There is plenty of apostasy to be had in viewing the Church headquatered at Rome.
 
Hisalone said:
No we have talked about the apostasy that was taught that a person could buy a loved one out of purgatory for a price.
The apostasy that a person could buy a position of bishop or cardinal for a price. The practice of on could become a prince if they paid the pope enough. There is plenty of apostasy to be had in viewing the Church headquatered at Rome.
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Now, pray tell, when did Rome teach such things?

Alaha minokhoun,
Andrew
 
Hisalone said:
No we have talked about the apostasy that was taught that a person could buy a loved one out of purgatory for a price.
The apostasy that a person could buy a position of bishop or cardinal for a price. The practice of on could become a prince if they paid the pope enough. There is plenty of apostasy to be had in viewing the Church headquatered at Rome.
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**You are mixing apples and oranges and expecting them to be the same thing here. Apostasy has to do with *deviation from the Faith *that was passed down through apostolic succession. It had nothing to do with purchasing a prince, cardinal, or pope.

The fact is, the Church has remained solid on matters of Faith and morals throughout the past 2,000 years. Those who broke away from the Church for any reason are the apostates, not the Catholic Church.**
 
Hisalone said:
No we have talked about the apostasy that was taught that a person could buy a loved one out of purgatory for a price.
The apostasy that a person could buy a position of bishop or cardinal for a price. The practice of on could become a prince if they paid the pope enough. There is plenty of apostasy to be had in viewing the Church headquatered at Rome.
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Actions of individuals within the Church do not equate to the Church being apostate. For instance, Martin Luther was apostate, but the Catholic Church still exists and is being guided by the Holy Spirit into all Truth.
 
Hisalone said:
No we have talked about the apostasy that was taught that a person could buy a loved one out of purgatory for a price.
The apostasy that a person could buy a position of bishop or cardinal for a price. The practice of on could become a prince if they paid the pope enough. There is plenty of apostasy to be had in viewing the Church headquatered at Rome.
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Please cite some teaching of the Catholic Church that says that indulgences should be bought, or it is right to buy positions of being a Bishop or Cardinal. All you have done is bring up accusations based upon people deviating from Catholic belief.

(This is like saying, I know of a lady who was divorced and remarried 10 times, this makes marriage wrong. Marriage no longer exists as being right.)

See how looney it sounds when you bring up accusations without something factual to back it up. Please cite some Church council which says it is right and good to do these evil things and you have proof of apostacy, as then the Church formally teaches error.

This would also give you a date as opposed to a gradual, made up apostacy, with no evidence whatsoever.

This is what I have seen you say,
Sometime the Church went bad, I have no proof but some Bishops and Cardinals did evil things so this makes the Church wrong. It was fixed by the reformation, look at the wikipedia article and then answer me.

You need to come up with a logical objection so that you can honestly object to the Catholic Church, or else it is just plain bigotry. Kind of like not liking some neighbors because of their race, not because of any factual reason to dislike them.

Pray, think, then look into the history, then pray and think a bit more, don’t let confusion taught by those who say that we can never know truth fool you. The Holy Spirit can lead you and Christ’s truth is one.

God Bless
Scylla
 
peary said:
**You are mixing apples and oranges and expecting them to be the same thing here. Apostasy has to do with *deviation from the Faith ***that was passed down through apostolic succession. It had nothing to do with purchasing a prince, cardinal, or pope.

The fact is, the Church has remained solid on matters of Faith and morals throughout the past 2,000 years. Those who broke away from the Church for any reason are the apostates, not the Catholic Church.
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So teaching you can buy a loved one out of purgatory is not deviation in a matter of faith?
 
scylla said:
Please cite some teaching of the Catholic Church that says that indulgences should be bought, or it is right to buy positions of being a Bishop or Cardinal. All you have done is bring up accusations based upon people deviating from Catholic belief.

(This is like saying, I know of a lady who was divorced and remarried 10 times, this makes marriage wrong. Marriage no longer exists as being right.)

See how looney it sounds when you bring up accusations without something factual to back it up. Please cite some Church council which says it is right and good to do these evil things and you have proof of apostacy, as then the Church formally teaches error.

This would also give you a date as opposed to a gradual, made up apostacy, with no evidence whatsoever.

This is what I have seen you say,
Sometime the Church went bad, I have no proof but some Bishops and Cardinals did evil things so this makes the Church wrong. It was fixed by the reformation, look at the wikipedia article and then answer me.

You need to come up with a logical objection so that you can honestly object to the Catholic Church, or else it is just plain bigotry. Kind of like not liking some neighbors because of their race, not because of any factual reason to dislike them.

Pray, think, then look into the history, then pray and think a bit more, don’t let confusion taught by those who say that we can never know truth fool you. The Holy Spirit can lead you and Christ’s truth is one.

God Bless
Scylla
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First it is unreasonable to assume the mass corruption in higholy placed Catholic Church leaders had no effect on the teaching and the moral compass ot said instituiton. If I am bitter at all it is at the absolute arrogance of those that claim they have the “deposit of faith” the only “true church” etc etc.
 
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