The Church of Philadephia--Revelation

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I was told by a Deacon that the Philadelphia Church in the Book of Revelation is the Holy Roman Catholic Church (by this I am sure that he meant, its authority was given through succession–or something like that). He pointed out the part where it was written that the door that they open no man shall shut and the door they close no man shall open…the same thing he said too Saint Peter. This would make a lot of sense too me…being what else is said of the church and that only the Roman Catholic Church has ultimately been given that kind of authority. Now it seems too me that he might have been speaking in Spirit when he said this. Can anyone give me any document or Roman Catholic church history that would support this?
 
donalddon5 said:
I was told by a Deacon that the Philadelphia Church in the Book of Revelation is the Holy Roman Catholic Church (by this I am sure that he meant, its authority was given through succession–or something like that). He pointed out the part where it was written that the door that they open no man shall shut and the door they close no man shall open…the same thing he said too Saint Peter. This would make a lot of sense too me…being what else is said of the church and that only the Roman Catholic Church has ultimately been given that kind of authority. Now it seems too me that he might have been speaking in Spirit when he said this. Can anyone give me any document or Roman Catholic church history that would support this?
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John 21 puts a second call upon Peter that is not put upon the other Apostles: to “Feed my Lambs” and “Feed My Sheep”. The implication is that Christ is transferring the duty of shepherding the faithful to Peter.
 
donalddon5 said:
I was told by a Deacon that the Philadelphia Church in the Book of Revelation is the Holy Roman Catholic Church (by this I am sure that he meant, its authority was given through succession–or something like that). He pointed out the part where it was written that the door that they open no man shall shut and the door they close no man shall open…the same thing he said too Saint Peter. This would make a lot of sense too me…being what else is said of the church and that only the Roman Catholic Church has ultimately been given that kind of authority. Now it seems too me that he might have been speaking in Spirit when he said this. Can anyone give me any document or Roman Catholic church history that would support this?
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ALL the Churches of Revelation are the Catholic Church - remember John was writing to churches that actually existed in his own day, and had the problems he described at that time. Since the Catholic church was the only one in existence, they were ALL Catholic.

Revelation is not just prophecy but also a comment on the times in which it was written. For example Babylon being pagan Rome which in his day was persecuting the martyrs as described, but which isn’t now of course.
 
Aramis said:
John 21 puts a second call upon Peter that is not put upon the other Apostles: to “Feed my Lambs” and “Feed My Sheep”. The implication is that Christ is transferring the duty of shepherding the faithful to Peter.
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Yes, three times! This is a parallelism that corresponds to the three times Peter denied Christ.

There is no doubt that the other Apostles fed the lambs and sheep.
 
LilyM said:
ALL the Churches of Revelation are the Catholic Church - remember John was writing to churches that actually existed in his own day, and had the problems he described at that time. Since the Catholic church was the only one in existence, they were ALL Catholic.

Revelation is not just prophecy but also a comment on the times in which it was written. For example Babylon being pagan Rome which in his day was persecuting the martyrs as described, but which isn’t now of course.
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Excellent post, as always!

I know that you agree with me that at one and the same time, they were Orthodox churches. It was Saint John who led these churches from Ephesus as a patriarchal figure and is believed by many to have authored Revelations. Saint John himself asserts in this passage that he has “the Key of David”. Saint John was instructed by the vision of Christ “the First and the Last…the One who lives” to write this.

Historically these were also the same churches which were involved in the Quartodeciman dispute with Victor I, bishop of Rome. Quartodecimanism is a method of calculating the date of Passover and Easter, placing Passover on the 14th of Nisan of the Jewish lunar calendar. Easter then might fall on any day of the week from year to year, as well as Sunday.

St. Irenaeus (who was a native son of those churches and went to Gaul as a missioner) opposed the bishop of Rome over the matter, advising he adopt a more moderate stance for the sake of Christian unity and indicating that Quartodecimanism was the practice of Saint John, the Beloved Disciple.

Michael
 
I’ve read some protestant commentary that says the historical churches addressed in Revelation also serve on another level as symbols of different Christian denominations, or as 7 different phases of the church throughout history. I found a couple of reference links that have summaries of these views, but they are fairly anti-catholic:
bereanfaith.com/articles.php?action=article&id=5
philologos.org/bpr/files/s001.htm

Unfortunately I can’t find any sources that discuss this concept from a Catholic/Orthodox point of view. I have to agree with other posters that when St. John wrote Revelation, all the churches he referenced were part of the one Universal Church. Though I don’t doubt that the symbolism in Revelation could function on many levels, and that it does contain important lessons for the Church as a whole as well as for individual parishes.
 
Thank you to everyone who submitted a reply:) , I often try to understand mystical experiences and was wondering if this was one of them or if there was any type of – for lack of better words here – worldly evidence such as historical documentation that would confer this. It almost seem that the deacon departed a mystery to me which was only known in whispers—again, lack of better words—Thanks again…as the promise is given: seek and you shall find.
 
ALL the Churches of Revelation are the Catholic Church - remember John was writing to churches that actually existed in his own day, and had the problems he described at that time. Since the Catholic church was the only one in existence, they were ALL Catholic.

Actually, the seven Churches of the Apocalypse were Orthodox Churches that continued until 1922, when a population exchange by the League of Nations forced the Christians out of Asia Minor and into Greece. (Turks were sent back to Turkey.)

He pointed out the part where it was written that the door that they open no man shall shut and the door they close no man shall open…the same thing he said too Saint Peter.

Jesus never said that to St. Peter. Check the Gospels.
 
Actually, the seven Churches of the Apocalypse were Orthodox Churches that continued until 1922, when a population exchange by the League of Nations forced the Christians out of Asia Minor and into Greece. (Turks were sent back to Turkey.)

Do you have a link to a website for that?

QUOTE]Jesus never said that to St. Peter. Check the Gospels.

This is what I was refering to: Now given the argument that the holy one, the true is referring to Jesus…the words are extremly similiar as what Christ said to Saint Peter.

Mathew 16:19 I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Revelation 3:7 The holy one, the true, who holds the key of David, who opens and no one shall close, who closes and no one shall open…

I see this as being similiar enough to hold a particular truth as to what the deacon said and it is that which I am seeking.
 
**
Actually, the seven Churches of the Apocalypse were Orthodox Churches that continued until 1922, when a population exchange by the League of Nations forced the Christians out of Asia Minor and into Greece. (Turks were sent back to Turkey.)

Do you have a link to a website for that?**

Actually, no. But it’s quite well known among Greek Orthodox.

Some have said this is the fulfilment of the Apocalyptic sign of “being spewed out of My mouth.”
 
Do you have a link to a website for that?**

Actually, no. But it’s quite well known among Greek Orthodox.

Some have said this is the fulfilment of the Apocalyptic sign of “being spewed out of My mouth.”

Yes, well I was brought up to be non-denominational (that is much like Pentecostal), so I am careful with what I listen to especially since the Holy Spirit has led me to the Roman Catholic Church. I know that what one is brought up to believe can be very different then what the truth is. But I will save the Eastern Orthodox versus the Roman Catholic arguments for another thread.
It is any relationship that shows the Church of Philadelphia(Alasehir) to be the same church as the Holy Roman Catholic Church that I am after, if such evidence do exist. If no such evidence do exist then I am after any thoughts which might support what I am seeking, however, if any strong counter-evidence is available then by all means correct me. I find the correlation between that of Philadelphia and Roman Catholic to be astonishing and can not see it as merely coincidental or something that can be put off as wishful thinking. To put it another way, I beleive very strongly that they are one and the same Church.
 
Well people, I have been surfing the Internet in search of answers to my own question…After reading a lot of heresy and attacks on the Catholic Church then anything insightful, I came across this and hope that others may want to join in the study. So here it is:

agapebiblestudy.com/Revelation/Lesson%201.htm

By the end of this course…I hope to have a better understanding of the Catholic Faith as I came to know it through mystical experiences rather then taught via man(although, I do admire those who were fortunate enough to be born into the Catholic Faith). If anyone runs across something that they may find of interest to me as far as my original post is concern please post it on this thread…many thanks.
 
Have any of you prophecies before, I have got to share this:
After posting the above link. I went to start my study course. I email the website about a link that was missing and I got up and started pacing(because, I am on about the 20th cup of coffee…). Any ways, I was thinking about the gift of prophesy because I was on that part of the study and I started thinking well what if prophecising isn’t what people think that it is…what if it is kind of like history repeating itself and I started thinking about how everything in the old testament occurs identically to the New Covenant and how in history everything seems to repeat itself…such as if banks gets silly with loaning money then it would effect the future economics of the banking system(something we are all feeling now)…any ways then I read the following from the lesson: agapebiblestudy.com/Revelation/Lesson%203.htm

Predictive prophecy in Scripture
Revelationis a book of prophecy: Revelation 1:3”Blessed is anyone who reads the words of this prophecy…”

Question: What is Biblical prophecy?
Answer: Biblical prophecy is not ‘prediction” in the occult sense of Nostradamus or the psychic cable channel. Placed in a covenantal context with a specific covenantal orientation and reference, the purpose of prophecy is more an evaluation of man’s ethical response to God’s Word of command and promise. An example would be Jonah’s prophecy of the destruction of the Assyrian capital of Nineveh in the 8th century BC. The city of Nineveh believed Jonah, repented her wickedness, and the devastation was averted.

Read Jeremiah 18:7-10 (Yahweh speaking): “At one moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to uproot, to pull down, or to destroy it; if that nation against which I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent concerning the calamity I planned to bring on it. Or at another moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to build up or to plant it; if it does evil in My sight by not obeying My voice, then I will repent of the good with which I had promised to bless it.”

Isn’t that the neatest thing?..makes one fall in love with the Holy Spirit.
 
Here’s are two great homilies on ‘The Seven Churches of the Apocalypse’ part one and part two from Audio Sancto.

I love how each of the churches gives us knowledge of different spiritual conditions that can apply to our lives and the lives and parishes we encounter, and how to respond.
 
Shin said:
Here’s are two great homilies on ‘The Seven Churches of the Apocalypse’
I love how each of the churches gives us knowledge of different spiritual conditions that can apply to our lives and the lives and parishes we encounter, and how to respond.
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Shin, Just listen to both of them…he sure does know how to put the last judgement into perspective…The homilies certainly makes one thinks of their own sins. The correlations between the state of the soul and the state of the seven churches in relationship to modern day culture versus the culture of the pagan surroundings of that time is extremely prophetic.
Thank you for the links, I will listen to the downloads from time to time so that I can examine my conscious, bet Saint Ignatius is proud of those homilies…Thank you.
 
donalddon5 said:
Shin, Just listen to both of them…he sure does know how to put the last judgement into perspective…The homilies certainly makes one thinks of their own sins. The correlations between the state of the soul and the state of the seven churches in relationship to modern day culture versus the culture of the pagan surroundings of that time is extremely prophetic.
Thank you for the links, I will listen to the downloads from time to time so that I can examine my conscious, bet Saint Ignatius is proud of those homilies…Thank you.
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I have listened to them twice and I thank God for them. 🙂

St. Ignatius and St. Sebastian pray for us.
 
An Excellent book on Revelation is Scott Hahn’s “The Lambs Supper” also check out his educational outreach to Catholics for a greater understanding of Scripture at St.Paul Center for Biblical Theology’s web site www.salvationhistory.com. The site has Bible Studies done at your own leisure at home on the computer - amazingly thorough!!
Good Luck, God Bless
acw
 
Yes, I have that book on my book shelf. It is a most wonderful book and at one time I email him about one of his free lessons which correspond to a vision I had, it was identical in nature and dealt with Adam and Eve…He or someone email me back but the email was received all garble(guess the devil never gives up).
One of his experience he mention in the book is identical to mine or I should say my is identical to his about going to mass and our minds being open up to the fact that the Mass is the book of Revelation. I even mention this to a priest after Mass at Saint John the Theologian Church in Saint Andrew, Florida(Panama City area), he was Father Don and that was a lot of years ago. I think I posted something of this prophecy on one of these threads if you care to read it just do a search for donalddon5, guess it is still there. Forgive some of the more stupid posts I have made. You can definitely say that I am a great admirer of Doctor Hahn as well as a lot of the other Catholics teacher…Thank you for the information.I will visit that site again soon and see if they have any additional lessons. I am now about to finish up on chapter 1 of the current lesson. It has a long introductory but very very good.

agapebiblestudy.com/Revelation/CHAPTER%201.htm

Any other suggestion, please let me know. Thank you.
 
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