The Church uses a different type of Latin?

[m8g8]

I read that Latin Masses are in Ecclesiastical Latin. Is this almost the same as the other type of Latin?

I have a book called ‘Cambridge Latin Course Book 1’. I wanted to learn Latin because it’s the official language of the Church, also it will be easier to learn Italian and Spanish after. However, will ‘Cambridge Latin Course’ teach a different form of Latin to Church Latin?

Also, I won’t be practising an accent as it’s only for reading and listening. It would be nice to, but when I look up Latin demonstrations on Youtube, there are usually comments saying that the person has a bad accent.

 

[MarkThompson]

I read that Latin Masses are in Ecclesiastical Latin. Is this almost the same as the other type of Latin?

I have a book called ‘Cambridge Latin Course Book 1’. I wanted to learn Latin because it’s the official language of the Church, also it will be easier to learn Italian and Spanish after. However, will ‘Cambridge Latin Course’ teach a different form of Latin to Church Latin?

Also, I won’t be practising an accent as it’s only for reading and listening. It would be nice to, but when I look up Latin demonstrations on Youtube, there are usually comments saying that the person has a bad accent.

There is only one type of Latin. The major difference is that “Church Latin” is pronounced as though it were Italian – and this isn’t even true in all countries; in Germany, for instance, they largely use the Classical pronunciation. Obviously, Church documents will have certain vocabulary words that don’t exist in classical Latin, and they’ll exhibit some quirks of late-Latin or mediaeval grammar and sentence construction that you wouldn’t find in, say, Cicero – mostly degradations. I’d have to say that the difference between “Ecclesiastical Latin” and “Classical Latin” is on the order of the difference between British and American English, or between reading Dickens and reading Hemingway. Maybe like the difference between Iberian and Latin American Spanish. In any event, definitely the same language, and not even a difference that rises to “dialect.”

 

[m8g8]

There is only one type of Latin. The major difference is that “Church Latin” is pronounced as though it were Italian – and this isn’t even true in all countries; in Germany, for instance, they largely use the Classical pronunciation. Obviously, Church documents will have certain vocabulary words that don’t exist in classical Latin, and they’ll exhibit some quirks of late-Latin or mediaeval grammar and sentence construction that you wouldn’t find in, say, Cicero – mostly degradations. I’d have to say that the difference between “Ecclesiastical Latin” and “Classical Latin” is on the order of the difference between British and American English, or between reading Dickens and reading Hemingway. Maybe like the difference between Iberian and Latin American Spanish. In any event, definitely the same language, and not even a difference that rises to “dialect.”

Thank you! That was exactly the type of answer I was looking for. I’m relieved I don’t have to choose between the two

 

[daeve]

My response comes from my old lady memory. Nothing scholarly going on here.

When I was a freshman in high school, my boyfriend Andy went to the public school and I went to a Catholic girls’ school. This was long enough ago that almost everybody took Latin. I learned to say, “Veni, Vidi, Vici,” and he learned to say, “Weni, Widi, Wici.”

We found that very amusing. I dated boys from Catholic schools after that, and they said ithings the way I did. Not an answer for the intelligensia, but in 1965 at least, the kids in public school were learning something different than the kids in Catholic school.

 

[m8g8]

My response comes from my old lady memory. Nothing scholarly going on here.

When I was a freshman in high school, my boyfriend Andy went to the public school and I went to a Catholic girls’ school. This was long enough ago that almost everybody took Latin. I learned to say, “Veni, Vidi, Vici,” and he learned to say, “Weni, Widi, Wici.”

We found that very amusing. I dated boys from Catholic schools after that, and they said ithings the way I did. Not an answer for the intelligensia, but in 1965 at least, the kids in public school were learning something different than the kids in Catholic school.

Thanks for your reply.

I did read about the ‘V’ and ‘W’ pronunciation, but all the differences in the ‘versions’ are small it seems.

You’re lucky you studied it at school. I also went to a Catholic school but didn’t listen to my mum when she kept telling me to take Latin lol, but my cousin took it and it came to use in Italy (they understood it).

 

[TBolt1000T]

The main differences in the two are in pronunciation, but there are also some spelling differences. If you want to learn the Eclesiastical Latin pronunciations instead of the classical ones, the Rossini Propers has a pronunciation guide at the beginning. Someone posted a link to a PDF version of it a couple of years ago, but I don’t have time to search for it right now, since I sing in a choir, and I’m trying to get ready for Sunday.

 

[laszlo]

The written Ecclesiastical Latin is the simplified form of the Classical Latin, with about 20% of the words is used with modified meaning.

As for the pronunciation no one knows how the Romans in the first century BC (last time of the spoken classical Latin) pronounced the words, and the recent pronunciation significantly different from country to country.

If you learn Classical Latin, you will learn somewhat more grammar than what is necessary for the Ecclesiastical Latin. The meaning of the words comes from practice anyway.

 

[m8g8]

Thanks again for your replies, I really appreciate all of them.

So I could follow a Latin Mass easily with Classical Latin? Is the Latin Vulgate in Ecclesiastical Latin, and is there an advantage from reading it over the Douay-Rheims?

Also, I know that Italian and Latin are supposed to be similar, but how much easier would you say it is to learn Italian after learning Latin?

Sorry about the additional questions!

 

[ProVobis]

Also, I know that Italian and Latin are supposed to be similar, but how much easier would you say it is to learn Italian after learning Latin?

Considering that Italian (along with Spanish and French) is a ROMANce language that has its origins in Latin, the vocabulary theoretically should be more familiar. Compare that with English with has its roots from Germanic (and barbaric) origins but with half of its vocabulary loaded with Latin cognates and half-cognates (prefixes, etc.)

 

[m8g8]

Considering that Italian (along with Spanish and French) is a ROMANce language that has its origins in Latin, the vocabulary would be more familiar. Compare that with English with has its roots in the Germanic (and barbaric) origins but with half of its vocabulary loaded with Latin cognates and half-cognates (prefixes, etc.)

Thanks!

You’re right. When I was friends with this German girl, I could always tell what she was talking about over the phone, even though I knew no German. Also, I set the language on my phone to Italian and a lot of it is similar to English

 

[ProVobis]

Thanks!

You’re right. When I was friends with this German girl, I could always tell what she was talking about over the phone, even though I knew no German. Also, I set the language on my phone to Italian and a lot of it is similar to English

I had a German physics professor at the university and it was difficult to figure out if he was speaking German with an English accent or English with a German accent.

(“Ven Vun Elektron…”) ← what is that?

 

[m8g8]

I had a German physics professor at the university and it was difficult to figure out if he was speaking German with an English accent or English with a German accent.

Haha yeah, the German accent is really strong, but my friend was good at English.

Apparently, to a foreigner who isn’t used to hearing English, the English language is the ugliest language they have ever heard lol.

 

[ProVobis]

Haha yeah, the German accent is really strong, but my friend was good at English.

Apparently, to a foreigner who isn’t used to hearing English, the English language is the ugliest language they have ever heard lol.

Very likely. Wasn’t there at least one saint who thought English was an insult against God?

 

[laszlo]

Thanks again for your replies, I really appreciate all of them.

So I could follow a Latin Mass easily with Classical Latin? Is the Latin Vulgate in Ecclesiastical Latin, and is there an advantage from reading it over the Douay-Rheims?

Yes, yes and only if English is your second language.

Knowing classical Latin you will understand the Mass.

The Vulgata especially the Clementine Version is one of the representative of the Ecclesiastical Latin.

Besides understanding the words and the syntax, a reading need emotional response too, to ‘feel’ the words. This is possible for most people only using the mother language.

 

[ProVobis]

For some Latin flash card fun: You’re welcome to post your own.

flashcardmachine.com/language-latin.html