The Church's teaching on Election

[Koineman]

Hello all,

I was told once a long time ago (memory might not serve well) that the Catholic Church has no official teaching about election and predestination. Is that true? If not, could someone direct me to the document(s) that contains it?

Thanks.

 

[Cat_Herder]

Hello all,

I was told once a long time ago (memory might not serve well) that the Catholic Church has no official teaching about election and predestination. Is that true? If not, could someone direct me to the document(s) that contains it?

Thanks.

Explainer here. (Note: this was directed at a Calvinist who was challenging Catholicism)

 

[Koineman]

Thanks for that link. In reading it, one thing occurred to me: Calvinists don’t believe that God “overrides” our wills. They believe that God grants the elect a new heart, and with that new heart is a new will to love God, so now the person voluntarily and willingly chooses to serve God. There is no force going on in that situation.

That said, what I was wondering was if the Catholic Church has any official position on the subject.

 

[Cat_Herder]

Thanks for that link. In reading it, one thing occurred to me: Calvinists don’t believe that God “overrides” our wills. They believe that God grants the elect a new heart, and with that new heart is a new will to love God, so now the person voluntarily and willingly chooses to serve God. There is no force going on in that situation.

What they actually believe is that God does that ONLY for SOME people–and that He supposedly wills everyone else to go to hell and forces them to do so by withholding the new heart from them. Not only is that definitely force and coercion, it’s also big-time heresy; see e.g. 1 Tim 2:3-4.

That said, what I was wondering was if the Catholic Church has any official position on the subject.

I think this is what you’re looking for.

 

[Koineman]

What they actually believe is that God does that ONLY for SOME people–and that He supposedly wills everyone else to go to hell and forces them to do so by withholding the new heart from them. Not only is that definitely force and coercion, it’s also big-time heresy; see e.g. 1 Tim 2:3-4.

I think there is some variance among Calvinists in that area. Some believe that God predestines the nonelect to hell and the elect to salvation, aka “double predestination.” Others, I think, don’t say that God predestines the nonelect to hell.

The 1 Tim. passage is good, but Calvinists have strong explanations for that. At any rate, I didn’t start this thread to debate Calvinism, so I’ll let it rest there. I’m here on these forums mainly to explore Catholic teaching because I’m thinking of returning to the Church.

I think this is what you’re looking for.

Thanks, I’ll check it out.

 

[Cat_Herder]

I think there is some variance among Calvinists in that area. Some believe that God predestines the nonelect to hell and the elect to salvation, aka “double predestination.” Others, I think, don’t say that God predestines the nonelect to hell.

They say that He does leave the non-elect (reprobate) unable to get to heaven which is the same thing.

The 1 Tim. passage is good, but Calvinists have strong explanations for that.

Their “strong explanation” is to split the Trinity or to impose an unbiblical distinction between God’s will and His desire–in either case they are compromising on their own fundamentals to win an argument.