The Collapse of a Christian Pillar

[Ben_Masada]

The Collapse of a Christian Pillar

TNK (Tanakh). Not quite TNT but it will explode all the same as to bring down one of the pillars of Christianity. T stands for Torah, N for Neviim, and K for Ketuvim. Torah is the Law, Neviim are the prophetic books, and Ketuvim, are the historical or literary books.

According to Judaism, there were 55 Prophets in the History of Israel, and Daniel was not one of them. Therefore, when the Jewish Canon was organized, the book of Daniel was not taken in consideration as a prophetic book. So, the book of Daniel was accounted among the historical books of the Tanakh.

Why? How could such a book as the book of Daniel not be considered among the prophetic books of the Tanakh but a literary book of History?

First and foremost, the book of Daniel was not written by Daniel. Second, the book takes its name, not from the author, who is actually unknown, but from its hero, a young Jew taken earlier to Babylon, where he lived at least until 538 BCE.

The Book of Daniel was written during the bitter persecution carried on by Antiochus IV (167-164 BCE) with the purpose to strengthen and comfort the Jewish People in their ordeal. Probably, the same author of the Book of Daniel wrote also the two volumes of the book of the Maccabees.

Then, the book was patronized by John Hyrcanus, a Jewish King from the Hasmonian Dynasty, who died in 104 BCE. He was famous for promoting Art and Literature.

Now, for the Christian pillar that has collapsed with this revelation
about Daniel. The TNT resides in the famous so-called “prophetic” frame of Daniel 9:24-27, which was written after the facts, as it classifies the book of Daniel as a historical and not prophetic book.

Therefore, here ends the bickering and babel of confusion to try to fit Jesus into a prophecy which was never a prophecy in the first place. However, as a historical book, the author, who, nobody knows was, did gain his place for the accuracy of events, as secular History confirms.

Ben

 

[Newbie2]

More Bennonite fiction.

Don’t feed the troll.

 

[Ben_Masada]

More Bennonite fiction.

Don’t feed the troll.

And you are the first to feed me. What is the matter, you can’t stand the Truth? Daniel was Jewish, the book of Daniel is found in the Jewish Bible and not in the NT. If you want to know if I am telling you the truth, why don’t you check the website “Prophets of Israel?” They are going to show you a list of 55 Prophets. Then look for Daniel. He is not there. You don’t have to wonder why. The answer is in my thread: Daniel was not a Prophet.
Likewise, if you check about the prophetic books of the Tanakh, you won’t find the book of Daniel. Do you know why? Because his book is not prophetic. It is historical. Surprised? That’s because you don’t read.

 

[SonofMonica]

And you are the first to feed me. What is the matter, you can’t stand the Truth? Daniel was Jewish, the book of Daniel is found in the Jewish Bible and not in the NT. If you want to know if I am telling you the truth, why don’t you check the website “Prophets of Israel?” They are going to show you a list of 55 Prophets. Then look for Daniel. He is not there. You don’t have to wonder why. The answer is in my thread: Daniel was not a Prophet.
Likewise, if you check about the prophetic books of the Tanakh, you won’t find the book of Daniel. Do you know why? Because his book is not prophetic. It is historical. Surprised? That’s because you don’t read.

Ben, it isn’t the lack of reading that’s contributed to the gap. With all due respect, the Church teaches that Jews “got it wrong” when it comes to interpreting prophecies about the Messiah. We truly think you’re waiting for someone who’s not coming. Encouraging us to take a “Jewish” look at Scripture is not going to lead anywhere.

 

[Newbie2]

And you are the first to feed me. What is the matter, you can’t stand the Truth? Daniel was Jewish, the book of Daniel is found in the Jewish Bible and not in the NT. If you want to know if I am telling you the truth, why don’t you check the website “Prophets of Israel?” They are going to show you a list of 55 Prophets. Then look for Daniel. He is not there. You don’t have to wonder why. The answer is in my thread: Daniel was not a Prophet.
Likewise, if you check about the prophetic books of the Tanakh, you won’t find the book of Daniel. Do you know why? Because his book is not prophetic. It is historical. Surprised? That’s because you don’t read.

You want the truth?

YOU CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH!

I assume you’ve seen the movie “A Few Good Men”.

 

[Angelo_Michael]

Ben,

You know what is an interesting (and a little discouraging) sidenote to your argument(s)?.. I have read a similar argument about the book of Jonah (also fundamental to Christ’s message) – only in a Catholic Youth Bible. It was basically saying that the account in Jonah never happened and that it was just a story to demonstrate how God cares for other people than the Hebrews. So, when I was addressing you at your other thread here, “A Challenge to Our Intelligence” wherein you refuted the resurrection claims of the N.T., I couldn’t help but consider that there is a bit of a double standard for you because you are Jewish. Although I generally disagree with you on your conclusions, I still gain something from your insight. I appreciate your comments and your honesty about your faith.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

The Collapse of a Christian Pillar

TNK (Tanakh). Not quite TNT but it will explode all the same as to bring down one of the pillars of Christianity. T stands for Torah, N for Neviim, and K for Ketuvim. Torah is the Law, Neviim are the prophetic books, and Ketuvim, are the historical or literary books.

According to Judaism, there were 55 Prophets in the History of Israel, and Daniel was not one of them. Therefore, when the Jewish Canon was organized, the book of Daniel was not taken in consideration as a prophetic book. So, the book of Daniel was accounted among the historical books of the Tanakh.

Why? How could such a book as the book of Daniel not be considered among the prophetic books of the Tanakh but a literary book of History?

First and foremost, the book of Daniel was not written by Daniel. Second, the book takes its name, not from the author, who is actually unknown, but from its hero, a young Jew taken earlier to Babylon, where he lived at least until 538 BCE.

The Book of Daniel was written during the bitter persecution carried on by Antiochus IV (167-164 BCE) with the purpose to strengthen and comfort the Jewish People in their ordeal. Probably, the same author of the Book of Daniel wrote also the two volumes of the book of the Maccabees.

Then, the book was patronized by John Hyrcanus, a Jewish King from the Hasmonian Dynasty, who died in 104 BCE. He was famous for promoting Art and Literature.

Now, for the Christian pillar that has collapsed with this revelation
about Daniel. The TNT resides in the famous so-called “prophetic” frame of Daniel 9:24-27, which was written after the facts, as it classifies the book of Daniel as a historical and not prophetic book.

Therefore, here ends the bickering and babel of confusion to try to fit Jesus into a prophecy which was never a prophecy in the first place. However, as a historical book, the author, who, nobody knows was, did gain his place for the accuracy of events, as secular History confirms.

Ben

Most Christian scholars take for granted that the Book of Daniel:​

• is pseudonymous
• is not prophetic
• is probably to be assigned, in whole or in part to the period of the oppression uncer Antiochus IV Epiphanes in the 160s BCE
• is referring to the High Priest Onias in chapter 9 verses 24-27 (the passage about the 70 weeks of years - with which compare Jeremiah’s 70 years; a strong indication that “Daniel” was not a contemporary of Jeremiah)
• is apocalyptic, at least in chapters 7-12
• is not referring to Jesus of Nazareth in that passage, or any other
• is not an account of actual events in the life of an individual named Daniel or of his three colleagues named in the book
• is not predicting Jesus of Nazareth in the so-called “son of man” passage in chapter
• contains historical inaccuracies, of which the “Darius the Mede” passage at the end of chapter 5 is only one

As is the way in the discussion of books of which the history is not well-known, there is a variety of positions in critical scholarship; some see Ezekiel 14.14 & 20 as evidence for the historical existence of a Daniel in Exilic Babylon (if for nothing else in the book); others see these verses as referring to the Ugaritic hero Danel. The value of these references is in turn dependent to some degree on whether those passages, if they refer to a Jewish Daniel (in Babylon or not), are Exilic references to an Exilic Daniel. Which leads to the question of the unity of the Book of Ezekiel.

Some of the objections made a century and more ago have long been admitted to be unjustified: the discovery of the “Cyrus Cylinder” in 1882 helps to explain why Daniel is in chapter 5 made third in the kingdom: the answer is that Belshazzar was second, his father Nabu-na’id (“Nabonidus”) being first. The difficulty that Nabu-na’id was not descended from Nebuchadnezzar but is called his son in the book is interpreted functionally: both were kings, and one succeeded the other, though with three others in between.

That there is much Babylonian colour in the book is not an issue - this is not quite the same as saying the book is reliable as a narrative of events. The madness of Nebuchadnezzar is generally associated with the prolonged absence from Babylon of Nabu-na’id.

And so on and so forth… None of these issues is a problem for the inspiration or canonicity of the book among Christians; it can be seen as very seriously affected by the critical re-evaluation of the book; but need not be. Some [kinds of ?] Christian Fundamentalist will be upset by what you say - but need not be. The Skeptics’ Annoted Bible site, Muslim apologists, & (it seems) yourself all seem to equate Christianity with Fundamentalist Christianity; which makes the objections from each about as convincing as Christian arguments for Christianity based on - well, Daniel 7.10-13 or 9.24-27. Which is a pity.

Two reasons for Christian sensitivity about the Book of Daniel are:

• the denial in the 3rd century CE by Porphyry that the book was prophetic or by the person whose name it bears: his work, which is mostly lost, brought forth a rejoinder by Jerome
• the importance of the “argument from prophecy” as one of the “evidences” for Christianity. This was an issue in controversy with the Deists in 18th-century England.

So, what you say is what a lot of people take for granted

 

[BrianH]

It is hard to add to what Gottle wrote but I can add a little personal experience. As a few people know, one of my degrees is from a very large seminary (distance learning); with a very famous founder. In my OT class, at least a 1/3 of the class, based upon discussion board posts, would absolutely agree with the position that Gottle described. Remember, this is one of the more conservative seminaries in the country. I can only imagine at most of the mainline seminaries, the percentage would be well over 90%.
You might get a few takers to defend Daniel as a prophetic work…but not many.
It is certainly not a pillar. While I enjoy your posts Ben, you have overstated your point in calling Daniel a pillar. I am not sure it is even a pebble.

 

[Angelo_Michael]

It is hard to add to what Gottle wrote but I can add a little personal experience. As a few people know, one of my degrees is from a very large seminary (distance learning); with a very famous founder. In my OT class, at least a 1/3 of the class, based upon discussion board posts, would absolutely agree with the position that Gottle described. Remember, this is one of the more conservative seminaries in the country. I can only imagine at most of the mainline seminaries, the percentage would be well over 90%.
You might get a few takers to defend Daniel as a prophetic work…but not many.
It is certainly not a pillar. While I enjoy your posts Ben, you have overstated your point in calling Daniel a pillar. I am not sure it is even a pebble.

I consider the book of Daniel, either in it’s extended format or not, as a principal book of the Bible. It’s lessons on maintaining integrity before the face of religious persecution have inspired and comforted me for many years. Moreover, it is plausible that this book may have inspired many persons whom have already been persecuted. Also, since attempts to discredit the merit Christ gave it’s content are being made, it seems probable that there is also little or no respect for some of His other teachings. In other words; if someone is rejecting the content of Matthew 24, it is likely they are also rejecting the content of Matthew 23.

 

[reen12]

I dunno, Ben Masada. When I read some of the posts, in your various threads,
I keep thinking:

What part of : “Yeshua is neither God, nor Son of God,” don’t given Christians get?

What’s not to get? “No, dear friends. I do not at all share your belief that
a god/man walked the earth. God is One, not triune.”

What I find risible is, that Christianity was the new kid on the block -
20 centuries ago - and Christian practioners spent time, trolling in the Tanach,
as the centuries wore on ---->seeking ‘mystical meanings,’ in the plain words, thereof.

Glad to see a new thread. http://bestsmileys.com/waving/5.gif

שַׁבָּת שָׁלוֹם) Ben Masada.

reen12

 

[simplynoone]

Ben, it isn’t the lack of reading that’s contributed to the gap. With all due respect, the Church teaches that Jews “got it wrong” when it comes to interpreting prophecies about the Messiah. We truly think you’re waiting for someone who’s not coming. Encouraging us to take a “Jewish” look at Scripture is not going to lead anywhere.

The prophets were not fortune tellers. The People knew the Laws they were given, but not all understood that the Laws were set in place for the specific purpose to teach them of God’s ways … to make them understand wisdom. Thus, the prophets were not only trying to keep the People focused, but give them hope as well. Hope is fulfilled when understanding comes; and understanding is salvation (not from circumstances, but of ones mind).

The Christian view of the prophets’ testimonies was actually forbidden in the Laws given to the Jewish and thus, the Church is overwriting via power of suggestion rather than just interpretating what is said in the Tanakh.

Mystical fortune telling and promises of rescue (from what? ourselves?) to a heavenly utopia are not in the Tanakh. Even Jesus did not claim any such thing and in fact, clearly said the opposite. Interpret what you read in the Tanakh through the Laws they were given … that is the mindset they were written in.

Jews serve God (not a man) not for thought of reward or expectation of the fantastical; rather the Jew serves God with the hope to understand so as to pass that on to the next generation. Life is, after all, where the living actually are living.

 

[John7]

babel of confusion
Ben

so sayeth the Babeler…

1 John 2:22
Who is a liar
but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ
he is antichrist

 

[Angelo_Michael]

The prophets were not fortune tellers. The People knew the Laws they were given, but not all understood that the Laws were set in place for the specific purpose to teach them of God’s ways … to make them understand wisdom. Thus, the prophets were not only trying to keep the People focused, but give them hope as well. Hope is fulfilled when understanding comes; and understanding is salvation (not from circumstances, but of ones mind).

The Christian view of the prophets’ testimonies was actually forbidden in the Laws given to the Jewish and thus, the Church is overwriting via power of suggestion rather than just interpretating what is said in the Tanakh.

Mystical fortune telling and promises of rescue (from what? ourselves?) to a heavenly utopia are not in the Tanakh. Even Jesus did not claim any such thing and in fact, clearly said the opposite. Interpret what you read in the Tanakh through the Laws they were given … that is the mindset they were written in.

Jews serve God (not a man) not for thought of reward or expectation of the fantastical; rather the Jew serves God with the hope to understand so as to pass that on to the next generation. Life is, after all, where the living actually are living.

It seems to me that you are misrepresenting Christ’s statements and/or claims, or are ignorant of certain N.T. Scriptures. Christ said that if people did not believe in Him [as the Messiah] that they would die in their sin(s). Christ also says that Elijah, who became John the Baptist, was the greatest of those born of women but that a lesser one in the Kindgom of Heaven is greater than him. Does this mean that Elijah was greater than Moses as they were both with Christ on the Mount?

Nevertheless, what Christ does, like Moses, is “create a new thing in the earth” with the Judgment [and Resurrection] (Matthew 25:31-46). So that, just as in Korah’s rebellion when the earth clave and broke apart and swallowed up the rebels, so those found guilty by Christ shall be tormented forever. For, in all things wherein Christ is similar to Moses, He is also greater. Moreover, the reward of the faithful is not [necessarily] Jerusalem or many descendants and long life (which were generally associated with righteousness; specifically excepting the case of Abel, et al.), but an eternal life with Christ and God in Heaven or in Paradise.

 

[SonofMonica]

The prophets were not fortune tellers. The People knew the Laws they were given, but not all understood that the Laws were set in place for the specific purpose to teach them of God’s ways … to make them understand wisdom. Thus, the prophets were not only trying to keep the People focused, but give them hope as well. Hope is fulfilled when understanding comes; and understanding is salvation (not from circumstances, but of ones mind).

The Christian view of the prophets’ testimonies was actually forbidden in the Laws given to the Jewish and thus, the Church is overwriting via power of suggestion rather than just interpretating what is said in the Tanakh.

Mystical fortune telling and promises of rescue (from what? ourselves?) to a heavenly utopia are not in the Tanakh. Even Jesus did not claim any such thing and in fact, clearly said the opposite. Interpret what you read in the Tanakh through the Laws they were given … that is the mindset they were written in.

Jews serve God (not a man) not for thought of reward or expectation of the fantastical; rather the Jew serves God with the hope to understand so as to pass that on to the next generation. Life is, after all, where the living actually are living.

The Christ had a lot to say about those who were giving laws at the time, and it wasn’t good. He claimed to fulfill the Law and the Prophets and to create a New Covenant. Either you believe that or you don’t. But don’t make it seem impossible to believe–it is a bit hard to take that seriously. What I’m saying is that we believe your interpretations of the Old Testament prophecy were (BCE) and are (now) flawed. We believe that Jesus Christ came into the world not only to fulfill them but to provide (and actually be) the true meaning of them. We believe He is the Word of God, made flesh.

 

[Angelo_Michael]

so sayeth the Babeler…

1 John 2:22
Who is a liar
but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ
he is antichrist

Consider also
Matthew 7:
21: Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22: Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23: And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[EphelDuath]

With all due respect: so what? There are so many prophecies of Christ in scripture, that saying that perhaps one of them was misunderstood is not very damaging to the arsenal.

However, I do think the TC is mistaken. The Jews in the 4th century B.C. used the Book of Daniel to convince Alexander the Great that he was a prophecized liberator. Obviously this wouldn’t be possible if it hadn’t been composed yet.

 

[Angelo_Michael]

Consider also
Matthew 7:
21: Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22: Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23: And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

also
Matthew 12:
30: He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
31: Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32: And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

 

[simplynoone]

It seems to me that you are misrepresenting Christ’s statements and/or claims, or are ignorant of certain N.T. Scriptures.

Actually I reject your claim that I am ignorant of the NT and will be happy to show you that I know what is actually written there better than you. I am not the one misrepresenting Jesus, and am actually one of the few here who also knows well the Tanakh to even be able to discern the truth from the lies that are in your NT.

Christ said that if people did not believe in Him [as the Messiah] that they would die in their sin(s).

This is from John 8. Now notice in verse 31 he is talking to the Jews who believed on him … and in the same speech, verse 44, to the same people he calls them the children of the devil. Care to explain that apparent contradiction? BUT FIRST, I would have you notice also that when they ask him if they are correct that he is a samaritan and has a devil, he does not deny being a Samaritan. Therefore, the only thing to conclude is that this is not the same Jewish Jesus who said in Matthew 12:9, But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless. That is from the testimony of a prophet and it is true, that mercy came through the Laws given by Moses. Ezekiel testifies to mercy AND grace in Ezekiel 18.

We all die whether or not we believe in a demigod and we all die whether we sin or not. The Jewish Jesus confirmed what is written in the Laws and in the testimonies. The other Jesus gave a testimony that the writers of the Tanakh would have rejected as being Jewish. Be sure to especially read Ezekiel 13 paying close attention as you get to the end (verses 22,23) as well as Psalm 146:3,4 before attempting to dismiss this compelling evidence that there was more than one Jesus spoken of in the NT. (besides, the references I gave you are intriguing considering you claim the Tanakh as the catalyst for the coming of Jesus).

Nevertheless, what Christ does, like Moses, is “create a new thing in the earth” with the Judgment [and Resurrection] (Matthew 25:31-46).

Jesus did not create anything new. God has always used the same Law for His creation which includes to interact with His creation. That is the Law of cause and effect. The only thing that is new is our personal understanding of it. We evolve as it has been from the beginning. The Tanakh SCREAMS of this being the way God works, but even more, we are witness to this just by observing nature. Psalm 28:5

So that, just as in Korah’s rebellion when the earth clave and broke apart and swallowed up the rebels, so those found guilty by Christ shall be tormented forever.

This was metaphorical language that they were given over to their ignorance. Your view of man being tortured for not believing that another man was God is absolute insanity! Those kind of words only come out of the mouths of those who are either wholly oppressed so as to be blind or are looking to oppress others. Your god is scary.

Hosea 2:19 And I will betroth thee unto me for ever; yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies. The reason you have such a negative view is because you are too fearful of judgment and it is through judgment that we learn of God’s goodness. It is the way we are taught by Him … Proverbs 2:1-11

For, in all things wherein Christ is similar to Moses, He is also greater. Moreover, the reward of the faithful is not [necessarily] Jerusalem or many descendants and long life (which were generally associated with righteousness; specifically excepting the case of Abel, et al.), but an eternal life with Christ and God in Heaven or in Paradise.

Here again, I will show you that I know the NT better than you. Jesus taught that the kingdom of heaven is within us … that is, at hand. This goes well with what is written in Job 40:14. Then, as well, in the same passage the Jewish Jesus says, “I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.” He makes it clear that life eternal is to know God … that is to keep the way of the LORD HERE ON EARTH, which is why God chose Abraham, Genesis 18:19. That only happens so long as the Jews are here on earth and thus, the reason Jesus said SO clearly in John 4:22 that salvation is of the Jews (he didn’t say it is of the christians).

 

[simplynoone]

The Christ had a lot to say about those who were giving laws at the time, and it wasn’t good. He claimed to fulfill the Law and the Prophets and to create a New Covenant.

As an individual Jew … that is, for himself. The Laws are set up to teach the children justice and judgment, which is the whole purpose of a “chosen people” Genesis 18:19.

There are too many things that the Church teaches about Jesus that directly conflict the Book of the Law and thus, if truth, it even negates that Jesus fulfilled the Law for his ownself.

Deut 4:2,15-16, 39-40; 5:7-11,16; 6:6-9,14; 7:25-26; 11:16; 12:19,30-32; 13; 14; 16:22; 17:1-5,15,18-20; 18:1-5,9-22; 21:1-9 <— that is true judgment; 23:2 (this, logically, has to do with the virgin birth worship of the Pharoahs); 31:6

Deuteronomy 7:11-14; 8:5 When one breaks a command, that is what the judgments are set up for … to TEACH! That is mercy and grace. Our God is a faithful God who is quick to show mercy and slow to anger. Read Ezekiel 13 to see it from a correct perspective. The hope fulfilled for the Jew is understanding. The faith of Christians is unfulfilled expectation. Proverbs 2:1-11; Psalm 19:7-11; Deuteronomy 4:6,7

What I’m saying is that we believe your interpretations of the Old Testament prophecy were (BCE) and are (now) flawed.

Malachi 3:6 another promise that you are insisting isn’t true then.

We believe that Jesus Christ came into the world not only to fulfill them but to provide (and actually be) the true meaning of them. We believe He is the Word of God, made flesh.

The Word of God is in Israel, the People who is the Son of God. Isaiah 9:8

 

[Angelo_Michael]

Actually I reject your claim that I am ignorant of the NT and will be happy to show you that I know what is actually written there better than you. I am not the one misrepresenting Jesus, and am actually one of the few here who also knows well the Tanakh to even be able to discern the truth from the lies that are in your NT.

This is from John 8. Now notice in verse 31 he is talking to the Jews who believed on him … and in the same speech, verse 44, to the same people he calls them the children of the devil. Care to explain that apparent contradiction? BUT FIRST, I would have you notice also that when they ask him if they are correct that he is a samaritan and has a devil, he does not deny being a Samaritan. Therefore, the only thing to conclude is that this is not the same Jewish Jesus who said in Matthew 12:9, But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless. That is from the testimony of a prophet and it is true, that mercy came through the Laws given by Moses. Ezekiel testifies to mercy AND grace in Ezekiel 18.

We all die whether or not we believe in a demigod and we all die whether we sin or not. The Jewish Jesus confirmed what is written in the Laws and in the testimonies. The other Jesus gave a testimony that the writers of the Tanakh would have rejected as being Jewish. Be sure to especially read Ezekiel 13 paying close attention as you get to the end (verses 22,23) as well as Psalm 146:3,4 before attempting to dismiss this compelling evidence that there was more than one Jesus spoken of in the NT. (besides, the references I gave you are intriguing considering you claim the Tanakh as the catalyst for the coming of Jesus).

Jesus did not create anything new. God has always used the same Law for His creation which includes to interact with His creation. That is the Law of cause and effect. The only thing that is new is our personal understanding of it. We evolve as it has been from the beginning. The Tanakh SCREAMS of this being the way God works, but even more, we are witness to this just by observing nature. Psalm 28:5

This was metaphorical language that they were given over to their ignorance. Your view of man being tortured for not believing that another man was God is absolute insanity! Those kind of words only come out of the mouths of those who are either wholly oppressed so as to be blind or are looking to oppress others. Your god is scary.

Hosea 2:19 And I will betroth thee unto me for ever; yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies. The reason you have such a negative view is because you are too fearful of judgment and it is through judgment that we learn of God’s goodness. It is the way we are taught by Him … Proverbs 2:1-11

Here again, I will show you that I know the NT better than you. Jesus taught that the kingdom of heaven is within us … that is, at hand. This goes well with what is written in Job 40:14. Then, as well, in the same passage the Jewish Jesus says, “I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.” He makes it clear that life eternal is to know God … that is to keep the way of the LORD HERE ON EARTH, which is why God chose Abraham, Genesis 18:19. That only happens so long as the Jews are here on earth and thus, the reason Jesus said SO clearly in John 4:22 that salvation is of the Jews (he didn’t say it is of the christians).

In a way, it as though you have answered your own question: if Christ, or John, had already mentioned that He is Jewish then why should He (or he) have to repeat himself. Now I understand that you don’t accept Moses’ writings either because you yourself state that he was using metaphorical language. Korah’s rebellion occurred after the parting of the Sea and since so many miracles were being performed by/thru Moses at that time why do you suppose that the instance of the earth rending and swallowing up people is any less factual or intended to represent actual [supernatural] geological events than the others? It seems to me that you so readily reject Christ because you have rejected Moses as well. You appear to be dictating your faith based only on race, which is not Scriptural in the Tanakh.

Remember when Shimei cursed David? David did not answer him back for it but allowed him to do it in hopes that God would turn and favor him. I also have been mocked in my life and not answered a word back; it doesn’t make the person mocking me right. Is it so difficult to understand that if humans can kill and torture one another that, in carrying out retribution, God [and/or Christ] can do so even more?
Also, you don’t seem to understand that evolution is not salvation. Nor completely that Christ is not God Himself but God’s Son. He Himself said, “God is greater than I.” Yet, Christ is one with God and so one can not worship God without worshipping Him; neither can one worship Him without worshipping God. So, if you really expect me to believe you worship God then confess that you are inevitably worshipping Christ as well. Don’t let a history of rejecting, mocking, and killing Him get to your soul. Turn from your sin before it is too late and take advantage of the opportunity that is provided thru me.

Remember the leprosy of Naaman and the trespass of Gehazi? Surely it is possible with all the persecution of the people God has entrusted to me (and that I myself) have suffered that the sins of Judaism can be forgotten. Nevertheless, I really don’t think, or believe, it will benefit anyone to mock, reject, or demonize me.