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L
Lapell
Guest
Eastern Orthodox Christians do believe the same thing, and we Catholics also believe the same thing. Except that we also believe something that you are not ready to accept as of yet.
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AdrianP
Guest
Not only write yourself this, give it to everybody in the family and spek with other people about it. Also you can write in the name of departed people.
May God bless everybody.
May God bless everybody.
H
Hunho
Guest
AdrianP, please stick to the canon of the New Testament or the Tanakh. The History of Joseph the Carpenter is in neither. Nor does it share the spirit of either the Tanakh or the New Testament, not even (or especially not) point 26.
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AdrianP
Guest
May God bless you.
Are you teaching SOLA SCRIPTURA?
Orthodox Church has and had many people speaking with God and it just happen to read the Lifes of 2 Saints, Saint Fanurie and Saint Niphon .
Saint Fanurie made the following request to God:
“God , our GOD, the one that shows mercy on people asking and crying, make that everybody that would give a flat cake and will give it to poor people to be helped in every good request he will ask for.Please do so for the sins of my mother, that died in sins.”
From sky a voice like tunder said:
“Be it Fanurie as you wish and everyone that will ask you for help I would listen to him and you will help the ones in need.”
Are you teaching SOLA SCRIPTURA?
Orthodox Church has and had many people speaking with God and it just happen to read the Lifes of 2 Saints, Saint Fanurie and Saint Niphon .
Saint Fanurie made the following request to God:
“God , our GOD, the one that shows mercy on people asking and crying, make that everybody that would give a flat cake and will give it to poor people to be helped in every good request he will ask for.Please do so for the sins of my mother, that died in sins.”
From sky a voice like tunder said:
“Be it Fanurie as you wish and everyone that will ask you for help I would listen to him and you will help the ones in need.”
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AdrianP
Guest
While Apocrypha are not part of Bible these books have an historical value. While God showed mercy granting Fanurie his request in honor of his mother, what would hinder the possibility of the Word of God to show mercy in honor of Saint Joseph? Please write that book.
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Ben_Masada
Guest
Well Adrian, as long as your people claim that they have been speaking with God, it all right. They are okay. When they star claiming that God is speaking to them, then they are in trouble.
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Ben_Masada
Guest
Soul is a condition. We are living souls. The combination of body and breath of life, which we can call spirit. When we die, the body goes back to the dust and the breath of life or spirit goes back to God. This of an immortal soul apart from the body is a Greek doctrine par excellence. I think they copied it from the Egyptians. (Eccl. 12:7)
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Ben_Masada
Guest
And you do not know the answer. Do you want me to answer it for you?Pontius Pilate asked that very question, too…
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Ben_Masada
Guest
**It is all in my thread, "The 70 Week/Years of Daniel 9:24-27, down to details.
We do have prophecies in the Book of Genesis, but it is not among the prophetic books. Genesis is Torah.**
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AdrianP
Guest
Ben, does book of Daniel tell the TRUTH? You have to tell us, because you’re saying book of Daniel is not prophetical and Daniel say this is the prophecy concerning the dream, prophecy that shows 100% accurate.
So Ben is saying, sorry Daniel you cannot prophecy , only history data you can show us.
Daniel is saying, Ben, this is the prophecy of the dream from God and this is 100% accurate.
" Daniel 2:
**44And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
45Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure. "**
Christians say Daniel, you’re right and we see Word of God the rock not made by human hands coming down, and we see the Christianity or rock covering all Earth.
Same with Genesis, tells this book the TRUTH?
This is angel taking the soul of a man:
youtube.com/user/IoanRomania09#p/f/5/AyBDs8JpEa8
This is the explanation of what was going on at the death of Abraham:
pseudepigrapha.com/pseudepigrapha/1007.htm
I think there are several ways to say where a soul is going:
1.When the moment of death approaches the vision of the soul open and the dying person may see the world of spirits with relatives and angels and when the hour of death approaches if the person is smiling then he is going to good, he is smiling since good angels come to take his soul.
2.When the body is put in sepulcher and if there is a baby around or a small child if this child is laughting things are good. Small childs can feel the presence of good angels.
3.When the death is commemorated in Orthodox Church through special prayer, that is from Early Church and that SOME Catholics have lost, souls cames and is present and if people can smell heavenly smells or children are happy things are good. several times when priest did that prayer I felt Heavenly smells myself.
4.This is most sure.To speak with a person able to speak with GOD. How is this possible people may ask?
“Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God (Matthew 5:8).”
Usually this mean unceasing prayer: God have mercy. This was the prayer of publican .
Usually that means confessing toughts daily.
Sometime this may imply fasting, for long periods of time, but this is possible easily if praying unceasingly since prayer is food too.
You should see similar traits in prophets of Old Testament , lots of prayer, fasting, and maybe confession.
I don’t think this is Christian invention but kept from Jews that were in contact with God and prophecizing and did what God told them to do coming to Christianity. I have no problem if Jews learn it back, I don’t think tell will be any down side in Jews praying unceasingly God have mercy.
How does speaking with God is possible? We all of us have soul and soul vision but in normal state this vision, the next sensitive of our body, in normal stat this is unusable . While cleaning hearth soul vision becames usable and world of spirits becomes visible. This is in any of us. So in this stage with soul vision active people can see angels and GOD and can speak back and forth with GOD.
So Ben is saying, sorry Daniel you cannot prophecy , only history data you can show us.
Daniel is saying, Ben, this is the prophecy of the dream from God and this is 100% accurate.
" Daniel 2:
**44And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
45Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure. "**
Christians say Daniel, you’re right and we see Word of God the rock not made by human hands coming down, and we see the Christianity or rock covering all Earth.
Same with Genesis, tells this book the TRUTH?
This is angel taking the soul of a man:
youtube.com/user/IoanRomania09#p/f/5/AyBDs8JpEa8
This is the explanation of what was going on at the death of Abraham:
pseudepigrapha.com/pseudepigrapha/1007.htm
I think there are several ways to say where a soul is going:
1.When the moment of death approaches the vision of the soul open and the dying person may see the world of spirits with relatives and angels and when the hour of death approaches if the person is smiling then he is going to good, he is smiling since good angels come to take his soul.
2.When the body is put in sepulcher and if there is a baby around or a small child if this child is laughting things are good. Small childs can feel the presence of good angels.
3.When the death is commemorated in Orthodox Church through special prayer, that is from Early Church and that SOME Catholics have lost, souls cames and is present and if people can smell heavenly smells or children are happy things are good. several times when priest did that prayer I felt Heavenly smells myself.
4.This is most sure.To speak with a person able to speak with GOD. How is this possible people may ask?
“Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God (Matthew 5:8).”
Usually this mean unceasing prayer: God have mercy. This was the prayer of publican .
Usually that means confessing toughts daily.
Sometime this may imply fasting, for long periods of time, but this is possible easily if praying unceasingly since prayer is food too.
You should see similar traits in prophets of Old Testament , lots of prayer, fasting, and maybe confession.
I don’t think this is Christian invention but kept from Jews that were in contact with God and prophecizing and did what God told them to do coming to Christianity. I have no problem if Jews learn it back, I don’t think tell will be any down side in Jews praying unceasingly God have mercy.
How does speaking with God is possible? We all of us have soul and soul vision but in normal state this vision, the next sensitive of our body, in normal stat this is unusable . While cleaning hearth soul vision becames usable and world of spirits becomes visible. This is in any of us. So in this stage with soul vision active people can see angels and GOD and can speak back and forth with GOD.
D
Dokimas
Guest
So there can be prophecies in a non prophetic book? So it’s possible that Daniel 9:24-27 could be meant by God to be prophetic.
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AdrianP
Guest
Good deeds are also very important in obtaining gifts. I know a monk that when told to pray once for people, ONE OF MOST POWERFUL PRAYER AT HOLY LITURGY WHEN SKIES ARE OPEN AND GOD AND ANGELS COME TO ORTHODOX CHURCH, prayer that can take souls out of HELL, so when this monk is askd to pray once by Christians thisimportant prayer, he prays secretly 60 TIMES , and I know for a fact he can see and speak with Holy Mother of God. He is in Romania at a monastery.
How did I found out? I put a paper with names of dead and living and left it there. But when going back I said, maybe I should mention 40 times, and went back to other monk and asked to mention 40 times on my requests for prayer and the monk said, don’t worry , the monk you asked for prayer prays for any request 60 times even if specified only once.
How did I found out? I put a paper with names of dead and living and left it there. But when going back I said, maybe I should mention 40 times, and went back to other monk and asked to mention 40 times on my requests for prayer and the monk said, don’t worry , the monk you asked for prayer prays for any request 60 times even if specified only once.
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AdrianP
Guest
I think the last one was a discovery when I asked GOD, GOD, why some people that does not seem to fast have gifts? I am confused about this. And I read after that a passage where it was saying something like “I want mercy no toils”. I think fasting definitively helps but looks like mercy is more important. I remember Saint Paisios praying one hour at night for widows and orphans another hour for something else, this was the fruit of his lips and he had MANY MANY MANY gifts from GOD.He even prayed for the devil. He was trying to help people and now I remember ABRAHAM that had an open house inviting all people going nearby and even GOD visited him.
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AdrianP
Guest
Matthew 25:
" 31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34"Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37"Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40"The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’
41"Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44"They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45"He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
"
" 31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34"Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37"Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40"The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’
41"Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44"They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45"He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
"
A
ALotLessThumb
Guest
Ben,
You and I can only tendentiously comment on the evidence. It isn’t productive because in the end, Christians will believe and Jews won’t.
As uncomfortable as it is for both Christians and Jews, they are the remains of whatever came before the Romans eradicated the ancient Jewish world.And I believe it can be argued that Christians can claim an appropriate succession (regardless of how heretical that position may or may not be.) And this argument goes beyond Jesus and the Trinity and who is interpreting what correctly. It seems to be an extension of a very old argument which includes the origin of the Passover feast. After all, what is the Passion story but a continuation of the feast of Passover as described in the midrashic Mekilta de-Rabbi Ishmael, Pisba’ 7? Doesn’t it interpret the blood of the paschal lamb that redeems Israel’s firstborn in Exodus 12:13b as “the blood of the binding of Isaac.” Is Exodus 10 introducing a new feast, or continuing a celebration that pre-dates the Exodus?
Or how about in the in Beraishis Rabbah where Isaac says, “Father, do not be distressed. Come now and carry out the will of your Father in heaven: may it be His will that a quarter of my blood serve as an atonement for Israel.”
There is a book called, “The Last Trial” amazon.com/Last-Trial-Sacrifice-1899-1984-Reprint/dp/187904529X that deals with the aggadic interpretation of the death and resurrection of Issac. EDIT: This isn’t to suggestion that the Issac narrative presented has the same meaning as Christians have of Jesus.
Obviously, formative Christianity and formative Judaism have responded to all of this in very different manners. It’s a complicated field that is hard for either to navigate for mutual dialogue. All I hope for is that God may forgive us for the errors we make along the way.
H
Hunho
Guest
“A condition”? Please explain what it means for the soul to be a condition. (Obviously I don’t understand and I need help.)
Is the spirit not individual? Are you saying that it is simply reabsorbed into (or by) God to become an unidentifiable part of God? Is there no resurrection of me or you as an individual?
I thought I had some understanding of Jewish beliefs about what man is, but now I begin to have serious doubts about what I thought I knew. Now I really need help!
D
Dokimas
Guest
What do these mean? nephesh & ruwach
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Ben_Masada
Guest
B
Ben_Masada
Guest
**Listen Dokimas, Daniel, the Daniel who was in the Babylonian exile, was a Prophet, but his book was not prophetic. Sometimes I wonder if you guys read a thread before starting to give replies. The Book of Daniel was written by an unknown author in Israel hundreds of years after the exile. So, the guy who wrote the Book of Daniel, wrote it as history. There is a tradition that the book was written in Greek. They guy could even have been a Hellenistic Jew, for all that concerns us. And that’s reason enough to even discard the Book from the Tanach; let alone from being a prophetic book. If Daniel, like the other Prophets, had written his own book, it would have been a prophetic book not doubt. **
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