The Confessions of St Augustine - Help Needed

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Has anyone read and understood the Confessions of St Augustine? Or can anyone recommend a writing that explains it?

I have the book on my kindle because it was free and decided to start reading it. The first few pages made my head spin - he certainly had a lot of questions but never seemed to think each one through - unless he gets to it later in his book. Alternatively it may be because the Bible hadn’t been written which is why the He in me and me in Him didn’t link to where Jesus said He was in the Father, the Father in Him, Him in us and us in Him (sorry, probably got that round the wrong way).

I have only read 2% of the book and its going to be a long read. I got to the following lines:
But Thou are still the same, and all things of tomorrow, and all beyond, and all of yesterday, and all behind it, Thou hast done to-day. What is it to me, though any comprehend not this? Let him also rejoice and say What thing is this? Let him rejoice and be content rather by not discovering to discover Thee, than by discovering not to discover Thee.
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I’ve underlined the bit that has me still scratching my head. I think I got the bit before - God is above and beyond time, but how can someone rejoice by not discovering God? How can we love and follow God, if we don’t try to discover Him? If we don’t try to find God, aren’t we wandering around permanently lost, easy prey for anything but God? Oh dear, St Augustine’s questioning is infectious.

Can anyone help before I end up wandering around muttering even more questions to myself without getting anywhere?:confused: If I can’t get St Augustine, there will be no hope for me when I start to try to read St Thomas Aquinas at some time in the future.
 
The bible had been written and canonized, and St. Augustine has read it by the time he writes his Confessions. He references a ton of it in his work. The translation I have is written plainer and doesn’t have any of the “thous” in it that make it easier for me to read. What chapter and book was that line from?
 
Would it aid your comprehension if you pick up a different translation without the “these” and “thous”? It is the older translations that are in the public domain (and thus the versions that tend to be free). You might consider finding a more readable, more recent translation. Even the translation on NewAdvent might be better for you.

NewAdvent’s translation goes like this:

“But You are the same;” and all the things of tomorrow and the days yet to come, and all of yesterday and the days that are past, You will do today, You have done today. What is it to me if any understand not? Let him still rejoice and say, “What is this?” Let him rejoice even so, and rather love to discover in failing to discover, than in discovering not to discover You.

I’m not sure if that’s easier to understand or not. :o

The way I look at this passage, St. Augustine is talking about how our “failures of discovery” about God can be discoveries in and of themselves. Sometimes discovering what God is not tells us something very important about Him.

I wouldn’t get overly hung up on these passages, though. Confessions is St. Augustine’s autobiography. I think it is worth reading through even if you do not understand his every turn of phrase. If I only read stuff I understood perfectly, I wouldn’t read very much. :o
 
subject97 said:
The bible had been written and canonized, and St. Augustine has read it by the time he writes his Confessions. He references a ton of it in his work. The translation I have is written plainer and doesn’t have any of the “thous” in it that make it easier for me to read. What chapter and book was that line from?
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It looks to be the end of Book 1, Chapter 10.
 
I haven’t read The Confessions of St Augustine, but the underlined quote made me think of it this way, it’s like when you go looking for something you may not find it, and when you are not looking for something it’s then that you find it.

Something like that anyway!

Good luck with the book 👍
 
subject97 said:
The bible had been written and canonized, and St. Augustine has read it by the time he writes his Confessions. He references a ton of it in his work. The translation I have is written plainer and doesn’t have any of the “thous” in it that make it easier for me to read. What chapter and book was that line from?
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Its from book 1, but the kindle version does not have any chapters (not very helpful). I think I will look at the newer version because if I keep reading the version I have, I’ll end up saying Thee and Thou.

Thanks
 
Joe_5859 said:
Would it aid your comprehension if you pick up a different translation without the “these” and “thous”? It is the older translations that are in the public domain (and thus the versions that tend to be free). You might consider finding a more readable, more recent translation. Even the translation on NewAdvent might be better for you.

NewAdvent’s translation goes like this:

“But You are the same;” and all the things of tomorrow and the days yet to come, and all of yesterday and the days that are past, You will do today, You have done today. What is it to me if any understand not? Let him still rejoice and say, “What is this?” Let him rejoice even so, and rather love to discover in failing to discover, than in discovering not to discover You.

I’m not sure if that’s easier to understand or not. :o

The way I look at this passage, St. Augustine is talking about how our “failures of discovery” about God can be discoveries in and of themselves. Sometimes discovering what God is not tells us something very important about Him.

I wouldn’t get overly hung up on these passages, though. Confessions is St. Augustine’s autobiography. I think it is worth reading through even if you do not understand his every turn of phrase. If I only read stuff I understood perfectly, I wouldn’t read very much. :o
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Thanks. I think I will use the New Advent version alongside my kindle. I like the Thees and Thous but the language is of its time, so I might misinterpret it. I sort of like the way his mind works, so I will keep reading.
 
Definitely pick up a better translated version. But with that said, sometimes you just have to put down a book and walk away for a small spell.

I remember reading Theology for Beginners by F.J. Sheed. I put that book down twice before the third time was the charm. And even the third time was a struggle. Sometimes I could only digest a paragraph or two.

Good luck and enjoy!
 
Joe_5859 said:
Would it aid your comprehension if you pick up a different translation without the “these” and “thous”? It is the older translations that are in the public domain (and thus the versions that tend to be free). You might consider finding a more readable, more recent translation. Even the translation on NewAdvent might be better for you.

NewAdvent’s translation goes like this:

“But You are the same;” and all the things of tomorrow and the days yet to come, and all of yesterday and the days that are past, You will do today, You have done today. What is it to me if any understand not? Let him still rejoice and say, “What is this?” Let him rejoice even so, and rather love to discover in failing to discover, than in discovering not to discover You.
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Wow, the different translation helps a ton. I need to re-read Confessions now.
 
Avila123 said:
I’ve underlined the bit that has me still scratching my head. I think I got the bit before - God is above and beyond time, but how can someone rejoice by not discovering God? How can we love and follow God, if we don’t try to discover Him? If we don’t try to find God, aren’t we wandering around permanently lost, easy prey for anything but God? Oh dear, St Augustine’s questioning is infectious.

Can anyone help before I end up wandering around muttering even more questions to myself without getting anywhere?:confused: If I can’t get St Augustine, there will be no hope for me when I start to try to read St Thomas Aquinas at some time in the future.
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I think St. Augustine has a different approach to God than someone like St. Thomas. For St. Augustine, he seems to emphasize the mysterious nature of God and accepts these mysteries more readily whereas St. Thomas tries to probe as rationally deep as possible. I think what St. Augustine is trying to say is that he knows that God is eternal and changeless. But he recognizes that he as a human cannot positively know what this means (he only knows that God has to not be changing, but does not and cannot know what it would be like to not ever change). It would be wrong to say “oh, I know what that means, I have God all figured out. That’s God right over there” as if we as finite humans could put in an infinite reality into a neat little box and categorize it away on our shelf. If you think you have God all figured out, then you don’t know God, because a finite mind cannot completely comprehend God’s infinite nature. You cannot speak of God positively, only negatively (God is not this) or analogously (God is something like x, but the way God is x so far outstrips my understanding of x). If you understand your utter helplessness and dependence on God as St. Augustine does, then you are closer to God than the rationalist that “has everything all figured out.”

When he says that it is better for one to rejoice that he has not discovered God and lament when someone says they have discovered God, I think he is referring to this issue. Someone who thinks they discovered God thinks they discovered Him like they would discover a tree in their backyard. If you think you have “discovered God”, then you really haven’t discovered Him at all. I don’t think he is criticizing people who search for God, but you have to recognize the importance of grace and limits of human reason.
 
balto said:
I think St. Augustine has a different approach to God than someone like St. Thomas. For St. Augustine, he seems to emphasize the mysterious nature of God and accepts these mysteries more readily whereas St. Thomas tries to probe as rationally deep as possible. I think what St. Augustine is trying to say is that he knows that God is eternal and changeless. But he recognizes that he as a human cannot positively know what this means (he only knows that God has to not be changing, but does not and cannot know what it would be like to not ever change). It would be wrong to say “oh, I know what that means, I have God all figured out. That’s God right over there” as if we as finite humans could put in an infinite reality into a neat little box and categorize it away on our shelf. If you think you have God all figured out, then you don’t know God, because a finite mind cannot completely comprehend God’s infinite nature. You cannot speak of God positively, only negatively (God is not this) or analogously (God is something like x, but the way God is x so far outstrips my understanding of x). If you understand your utter helplessness and dependence on God as St. Augustine does, then you are closer to God than the rationalist that “has everything all figured out.”

When he says that it is better for one to rejoice that he has not discovered God and lament when someone says they have discovered God, I think he is referring to this issue. Someone who thinks they discovered God thinks they discovered Him like they would discover a tree in their backyard. If you think you have “discovered God”, then you really haven’t discovered Him at all. I don’t think he is criticizing people who search for God, but you have to recognize the importance of grace and limits of human reason.
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I am definitely going to restart the book and go a bit slower. I agree with the comment about discovering God as in the discovering of Him completely. The most we can be blessed with is what He chooses to reveal to us, whether it is in His creation, inspirations etc I have found that sometimes we discover something and then have to rediscover it a few times. By the way, I am obviously only talking about the minutest aspect
 
Here’s what I get out of the quotation you said:

Augustine loved making discoveries and investigations. He always wanted to figure it out, and was never satisfied with not knowing. But this sometimes involved coming up with an answer that was too easy – it sometimes involved rejecting mystery and following the intellect too closely. This is “discovering not to discover thee”. We might translate it “discovering (and yet not discovering you)”.

What Augustine recommends is trying to discover even at the risk of failure to fully discover, because God is too big to comprehend.
 
Prodigal_Son said:
Here’s what I get out of the quotation you said:

Augustine loved making discoveries and investigations. He always wanted to figure it out, and was never satisfied with not knowing. But this sometimes involved coming up with an answer that was too easy – it sometimes involved rejecting mystery and following the intellect too closely. This is “discovering not to discover thee”. We might translate it “discovering (and yet not discovering you)”.

What Augustine recommends is trying to discover even at the risk of failure to fully discover, because God is too big to comprehend.
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That’s a great way to interpret that passage. I think you are right.
 
There are books that interput St. Augustine. My advice is to read is slowly and think/meditate on his words. The more you read the book the more you get into his head and see where he is coming from.
Hard reading but worth it.
 
Thanks. That phrase is still nagging at the back of my mind and Prodigal_Son’s post has helped. It’s one of those things that somehow has to be worked through a bit more. Probably my best bet is to restart and go slower.
 
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