The Confiteor in Liturgy

[1377Louis]

Why is the Confiteor omitted in most Masses? In my view as a staunch Traditionalist it is a perfect prayer at the start of the Celebration of the HOLY SACRIFICE OF THE MASS in addition to the Kyrie. This omission goes hand in hand with the removal of altar rails where Communion is distributed while reverently kneeling and receiving the Eucharistic Host on the tongue. A few weeks ago on CATHOLIC ANSWERS LIVE I posed this question and my other views as stated above and I was dismissed as someone unnecessarily tied to past “traditions” and that our Mass structure is now “more modern”, whatever that is supposed to mean ??

 

[Yago]

Are any of the following used when the Confiteor is omitted?

Priest: Have mercy on us, O Lord.

All: For we have sinned against you.

Priest: Show us, O Lord, your mercy.

All: And grant us your salvation.

Priest: May almighty God have mercy on us,
forgive us our sins, and bring us to everlasting life.

All: Amen.

OR
Minister: You raise the dead to life in the Spirit:
Lord, have mercy. or Kyrie, eleison.
All: Lord, have mercy. or Kyrie, eleison.

Minister: You bring pardon and peace to the sinner:
Christ, have mercy. or Christe, eleison.
All: Christ, have mercy. or Christe, eleison.

Minister: You bring light to those in darkness:
Lord, have mercy. or Kyrie, eleison.
All: Lord, have mercy. or Kyrie, eleison.

Priest: May almighty God have mercy on us,
forgive us our sins, and bring us to everlasting life.
All: Amen.

OR

Rite for the Blessing and Sprinkling of Water
…

 

[glendab]

As far as I know the Priest who is serving determines what parts he uses and what optional parts he doesn’t, so if he doesn’t feel the need for the Confiteor then he won’t use it. Ever hear of the “Golfer’s Special?” when everything that is optional is omitted and Mass is begun and over in 17 minutes or less? Yeah, some are more concerned with Holy things then others. God bless us all with Holy Priests who are men after His own Heart.

Glenda

 

[Neofight]

Why is the Confiteor omitted in most Masses? In my view as a staunch Traditionalist it is a perfect prayer at the start of the Celebration of the HOLY SACRIFICE OF THE MASS in addition to the Kyrie. This omission goes hand in hand with the removal of altar rails where Communion is distributed while reverently kneeling and receiving the Eucharistic Host on the tongue. A few weeks ago on CATHOLIC ANSWERS LIVE I posed this question and my other views as stated above and I was dismissed as someone unnecessarily tied to past “traditions” and that our Mass structure is now “more modern”, whatever that is supposed to mean ??

INCIPIT EVANGELIUM SECUNDUM MATTHEUM 23:23-24
23 vae vobis scribae et Pharisaei hypocritae quia decimatis mentam et anethum et cyminum et reliquistis quae graviora sunt legis iudicium et misericordiam et fidem haec oportuit facere et illa non omittere
24 duces caeci excolantes culicem camelum autem gluttientes

Pax
.

 

[lmelahn]

Why is the Confiteor omitted in most Masses? In my view as a staunch Traditionalist it is a perfect prayer at the start of the Celebration of the HOLY SACRIFICE OF THE MASS in addition to the Kyrie. This omission goes hand in hand with the removal of altar rails where Communion is distributed while reverently kneeling and receiving the Eucharistic Host on the tongue. A few weeks ago on CATHOLIC ANSWERS LIVE I posed this question and my other views as stated above and I was dismissed as someone unnecessarily tied to past “traditions” and that our Mass structure is now “more modern”, whatever that is supposed to mean ??

Hello 1377Louis,

There is actually an option in the current Missal among three possible Penitential Rites. Only one of those uses the Confiteor, although the Kyrie eleison is used in all three. (On Sunday there is also the possibility of substituting the Penitential Rite with the Sprinkling Rite; also, on a few occasions, such as Ash Wednesday, Palm Sunday, and the Easter Vigil, there is no Penitential Rite.)

It is OK to have a personal preference for the first form, but just so you know, the priest is doing nothing wrong by choosing one option or the other.

(P.S. I am a priest, and I can tell you that not a few priests make a mistake when they use the second form of the Penitential Rite, the one that begins, “Have mercy on us, O God.” It is easy to forget to say “Lord, have mercy,” afterwards. That can sometimes be the problem.)

For the record, I use the Contiteor at nearly all of my daily Masses . (On Sunday, I usually vary things a little.)

 

[OraLabora]

Why is the Confiteor omitted in most Masses? In my view as a staunch Traditionalist it is a perfect prayer at the start of the Celebration of the HOLY SACRIFICE OF THE MASS in addition to the Kyrie. This omission goes hand in hand with the removal of altar rails where Communion is distributed while reverently kneeling and receiving the Eucharistic Host on the tongue. A few weeks ago on CATHOLIC ANSWERS LIVE I posed this question and my other views as stated above and I was dismissed as someone unnecessarily tied to past “traditions” and that our Mass structure is now “more modern”, whatever that is supposed to mean ??

As Yago pointed out there are several licit penitential rites that can take its place, in the Roman Missal.

Those are legitimate options and should be respected as such and as not in any way inferior to the confiteor (which you can also use at Compline if you desire to use it more often).

 

[otjm]

Why is the Confiteor omitted in most Masses? In my view as a staunch Traditionalist it is a perfect prayer at the start of the Celebration of the HOLY SACRIFICE OF THE MASS in addition to the Kyrie. This omission goes hand in hand with the removal of altar rails where Communion is distributed while reverently kneeling and receiving the Eucharistic Host on the tongue. A few weeks ago on CATHOLIC ANSWERS LIVE I posed this question and my other views as stated above and I was dismissed as someone unnecessarily tied to past “traditions” and that our Mass structure is now “more modern”, whatever that is supposed to mean ??

Since I didn’t hear that session of CATHOLIC ANSWERS, I cannot speak to it. Whether you were dismissed, or not could be subject to all sorts of responses, but unless someone else in these threads heard it, responding would be inappropriate.

There is nothing wrong with liking a particular prayer, or a particular form, of for that matter, liking the EF as opposed to the OF, or the opposite.

Not being a student of historical liturgical expressions, it is only my supposition, but I would be surprised if what we know as the Confiteor has had many forms through the centuries. So, for that matter, have church forms.

My parish happens to say the Confiteor, to which I have no objection whatsoever; on the other hand, it is refreshing at times to hear one of the other alternatives. They are all valid prayers, and it would not surprise me to find out that one of the alternatives actually had more history in the Church than the Confiteor. But again, not being a student of historical liturgy,l I don’t have sufficient information.

 

[OraLabora]

Since I didn’t hear that session of CATHOLIC ANSWERS, I cannot speak to it. Whether you were dismissed, or not could be subject to all sorts of responses, but unless someone else in these threads heard it, responding would be inappropriate.

There is nothing wrong with liking a particular prayer, or a particular form, of for that matter, liking the EF as opposed to the OF, or the opposite.

Not being a student of historical liturgical expressions, it is only my supposition, but I would be surprised if what we know as the Confiteor has had many forms through the centuries. So, for that matter, have church forms.

My parish happens to say the Confiteor, to which I have no objection whatsoever; on the other hand, it is refreshing at times to hear one of the other alternatives. They are all valid prayers, and it would not surprise me to find out that one of the alternatives actually had more history in the Church than the Confiteor. But again, not being a student of historical liturgy,l I don’t have sufficient information.

The option of a prayer or invocation, followed by “Lord have Mercy” is in fact a troped Kyrie (but in the vernacular) something that goes back very many centuries but which was abolished at Trent. For example the Kyrie for Sundays of Ordinary Time (Kyrie XI) has as subtitle, “Orbis Factor”. Those are in fact the first words of the trope when this Kyrie was troped prior to Trent. All that remains in the Graduale Romanum now is the title.

The full Kyrie “Orbis Factor” was:

1. Orbis factor rex aeterne, eleison
2. Pietatis fons immense, eleison
3. Noxas omnes nostras pelle, eleison
4. Christe qui lux es mundi dator vitae, eleison
5. Arte laesos daemonis intuere, eleison
6. Conservans te credentes confirmansque, eleison
7. Patrem tuum teque flamen utrorumque, eleison
8. Deum scimus unum atque trinum esse, eleison
9. Clemens nobis adsis paraclite ut vivamus in te, eleison.

Translation:

1. Maker of the world, King eternal, have mercy upon us.
2. O immense source of pity, have mercy upon us.
3. Drive off all our evils, have mercy upon us.
4. Christ who art the light of the world and giver of life, have mercy upon us.
5. Consider the wounds produced by the devil’s art, have mercy upon us.
6. Keeping and confirming thy believers, have mercy upon us.
7. Thou and thy Father, an equal light, have mercy upon us.
8. We know that God is one and three, have mercy upon us.
9. Thou, merciful unto us, art present with the Holy Spirit that we might live in thee, have mercy upon us.

You can hear it here:

Orbis Factor

Very haunting and beautiful (and old!)

So indeed you’re correct, at least one of the other forms has deep roots in Church history!

 

[TimothyH]

Why is the Confiteor omitted in most Masses? In my view as a staunch Traditionalist it is a perfect prayer at the start of the Celebration of the HOLY SACRIFICE OF THE MASS in addition to the Kyrie. This omission goes hand in hand with the removal of altar rails where Communion is distributed while reverently kneeling and receiving the Eucharistic Host on the tongue. A few weeks ago on CATHOLIC ANSWERS LIVE I posed this question and my other views as stated above and I was dismissed as someone unnecessarily tied to past “traditions” and that our Mass structure is now “more modern”, whatever that is supposed to mean ??

I learned long ago through much hardship and many mistakes that I really don’t know as much as I thought I knew and that most of what I thought I knew as fact was really just my own opinion. In other words, don’t trust yourself too much.

You should take the CAL comment not as an insult but in a spirit of humility and charity, There is often some truth in the things which offend us the most. That is my experience.

-Tim-

 

[otjm]

The option of a prayer or invocation, followed by “Lord have Mercy” is in fact a troped Kyrie (but in the vernacular) something that goes back very many centuries but which was abolished at Trent. For example the Kyrie for Sundays of Ordinary Time (Kyrie XI) has as subtitle, “Orbis Factor”. Those are in fact the first words of the trope when this Kyrie was troped prior to Trent. All that remains in the Graduale Romanum now is the title.

The full Kyrie “Orbis Factor” was:

1. Orbis factor rex aeterne, eleison
2. Pietatis fons immense, eleison
3. Noxas omnes nostras pelle, eleison
4. Christe qui lux es mundi dator vitae, eleison
5. Arte laesos daemonis intuere, eleison
6. Conservans te credentes confirmansque, eleison
7. Patrem tuum teque flamen utrorumque, eleison
8. Deum scimus unum atque trinum esse, eleison
9. Clemens nobis adsis paraclite ut vivamus in te, eleison.

Translation:

1. Maker of the world, King eternal, have mercy upon us.
2. O immense source of pity, have mercy upon us.
3. Drive off all our evils, have mercy upon us.
4. Christ who art the light of the world and giver of life, have mercy upon us.
5. Consider the wounds produced by the devil’s art, have mercy upon us.
6. Keeping and confirming thy believers, have mercy upon us.
7. Thou and thy Father, an equal light, have mercy upon us.
8. We know that God is one and three, have mercy upon us.
9. Thou, merciful unto us, art present with the Holy Spirit that we might live in thee, have mercy upon us.

You can hear it here:

Orbis Factor

Very haunting and beautiful (and old!)

So indeed you’re correct, at least one of the other forms has deep roots in Church history!

Thank you for posting that.

Again, there is nothing wrong with preferring the Confiteor. Perhaps part of the problem is that when changes have been made, we have not usually had information as to the background - where the “new” may have come from, how it fits in historically, what may have influenced it as a choice, and influenced the change. It just tends to be plunked down, and some see that as change for the sake of change.

 

[OraLabora]

Thank you for posting that.

Again, there is nothing wrong with preferring the Confiteor. Perhaps part of the problem is that when changes have been made, we have not usually had information as to the background - where the “new” may have come from, how it fits in historically, what may have influenced it as a choice, and influenced the change. It just tends to be plunked down, and some see that as change for the sake of change.

Agreed. Our abbey sort of compromises. The first option that Yago posted on Sundays, and the Confiteor on weekdays and at Compline.

I’d like to hear them do a troped one on the melody of Orbis Factor

 

[twf]

In my personal experience the confiteor is actually still the most common option.