The contemplative cat

[MWin]

4shared.com/video/gl1YWVyk/Zombie_cat.htm

This video shows, I think, that also animals can be possessed by religious feeling. It also explains why medieval Christian monks and Zen Buddhists viewed cats as perfect role models.

M. Winther

 

[Della]

As one who is owned by 4 cats, I can say that I’ve seen them do this, as well. They seem to put themselves into a trance and then just rest there. It’s a form of sleep for them–they don’t know their eyes are open and they are happily experiencing some pleasant dream of their own. It’s not religious in nature, just a cat being a cat. Still, we can use them as a model for patience and meditation, remembering that the world will go on without us for a while, so we are free to contemplate God, putting ourselves in his presence for as long as he desires.

 

[KimberlyCat]

Cats Rule. Dogs Drool.

It’s so peaceful to live with a cat and I can’t imagine living without one. (or two, or three, or four)

 

[Lochias]

That cat might actually be in the middle of a mild seizure…I’ve never seen a cat be that unflappable in the middle of a blank stare.

 

[Della]

That cat might actually be in the middle of a mild seizure…I’ve never seen a cat be that unflappable in the middle of a blank stare.

That’s certainly possible. If it were my cat I’d take him to a vet.

 

[MWin]

I am convinced that animals have religious feeling. Unlike with us humans, their spiritual vision is unclouded. /Mats

 

[Della]

I am convinced that animals have religious feeling. Unlike with us humans, their spiritual vision is unclouded. /Mats

You can believe that if you wish. As long as we don’t ascribe human necessity to animals, it can do no harm.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

I would think that God’s creations recognize His glory.

 

[Lochias]

There’s this story of St. Anthony of Padua:

acfp2000.com/Saints/St_Anthony_Padua/St_Anthony_Padua.html

And, naturally, all kind of tales involving animals are centered around St. Francis:

americancatholic.org/features/francis/stories.asp

 

[MWin]

There’s a wonderful story, by Anatole France, of a near-sighted monk, St Mael, who happened to sanctify a group of tuxedo-clad gentlemen on an island, thus causing great theological difficulties. This short-story attempts to resolve the quandary we are discussing here. Read the story here:
gutenberg.org/ebooks/1930

M. Winther

 

[Della]

There’s a wonderful story, by Anatole France, of a near-sighted monk, St Mael, who happened to sanctify a group of tuxedo-clad gentlemen on an island, thus causing great theological difficulties. This short-story attempts to resolve the quandary we are discussing here. Read the story here:
gutenberg.org/ebooks/1930

M. Winther

Monks can bless animals, so I see no difficulties here. I often make the sign of the cross over my cats. One in particular seems to really like it–the others seem clueless about it and sometimes pull away. Cats and other animals can be just as receptive or obtuse as we humans.

 

[MWin]

Monks can bless animals, so I see no difficulties here. I often make the sign of the cross over my cats. One in particular seems to really like it–the others seem clueless about it and sometimes pull away. Cats and other animals can be just as receptive or obtuse as we humans.

The problem was that St Mael baptized the penguins, too.

In animism, the once world-pervading religion, animals were manifestations of the spirit in their own right. Christianity is curious in the sense that it is on the one hand very spiritual, but on the other hand extremely materialistic. Animals, and other aspects of existence, are viewed as wholly material, totally lacking in the spiritual dimension. Perhaps it would benefit Christianity should we grant material reality with a diminutive spirit.

“The notion of the scintilla divina (divine spark) or scintillula (little spark), embedded in materiality, occurs in Gnostic mythology and in mystical tradition. The spark, symbolically equivalent with the forest star, must be harvested, released from its captivity in matter, and returned to God as the source of the divine light.” I write about the diminutive spirit here.
/Mats

 

[Della]

I’m afraid the Church can’t “grant material reality with a diminutive spirit” because God has not revealed to her that she needs to do this. Animals are innocent of sin, so they don’t need any of the rites of initiation, any more than they need to be married in the Church or any other spiritual benefit that man needs.

The good monk who baptized the penguins actually did nothing but get them wet, as far as the sacrament is concerned. So really, there wouldn’t any theological dilemma to be solved.

 

[MWin]

I’m afraid the Church can’t “grant material reality with a diminutive spirit” because God has not revealed to her that she needs to do this.

I mean, of course, that we ought to recognize that there is a spirit of nature, and not only a heavenly spirit. This is an aspect of Catholic psychology that is perplexing to me: “Papa has revealed to us what we need to do and what not to do.” This amounts to pretending that we remain in the Garden. But since the Fall, we are supposed to be responsible human beings who think for ourselves. The church is merely a cool oasis that provides a moment of respite on our journey.

Stop pretending that the church has all the answers and provides the right way of life. That would imply that the church equates with the Garden, which gainsays the deep truth about the biblical Fall from Grace. In fact, Catholics who live with ready-made truths, and don’t really make use of their self-governed mind, are scarily similar to the average Muslim who renounces the truth of God’s incarnation as a human being. But God’s incarnation means that human fallen nature is repaired, in that it is granted divinity. Thus, to be a self-governed human being is to take part in God’s divine nature, because this is in the nature of the Son, who rebelled against the religious institutions. He told his disciples to pick up their own cross and to follow after him.

They who are blind subjects to the rules of the church, and stop experiencing life individually, have in effect renounced the Christ. For all practical purposes they are already Muslims, for the worship of the Christ has become a mere facade.

---

Jesus said, "I am the light that is over all things. I am all: from me all came forth, and to me all attained.

Split a piece of wood; I am there.

Lift up the stone, and you will find me there."

---

(Gospel of Thomas, 77)

M. Winther

 

[Lochias]

I mean, of course, that we ought to recognize that there is a spirit of nature, and not only a heavenly spirit. This is an aspect of Catholic psychology that is perplexing to me: “Papa has revealed to us what we need to do and what not to do.” This amounts to pretending that we remain in the Garden. But since the Fall, we are supposed to be responsible human beings who think for ourselves. The church is merely a cool oasis that provides a moment of respite on our journey.

Stop pretending that the church has all the answers and provides the right way of life. That would imply that the church equates with the Garden, which gainsays the deep truth about the biblical Fall from Grace. In fact, Catholics who live with ready-made truths, and don’t really make use of their self-governed mind, are scarily similar to the average Muslim who renounces the truth of God’s incarnation as a human being. But God’s incarnation means that human fallen nature is repaired, in that it is granted divinity. Thus, to be a self-governed human being is to take part in God’s divine nature, because this is in the nature of the Son, who rebelled against the religious institutions. He told his disciples to pick up their own cross and to follow after him.

They who are blind subjects to the rules of the church, and stop experiencing life individually, have in effect renounced the Christ. For all practical purposes they are already Muslims, for the worship of the Christ has become a mere facade.

---

Jesus said, "I am the light that is over all things. I am all: from me all came forth, and to me all attained.

Split a piece of wood; I am there.

Lift up the stone, and you will find me there."

---

(Gospel of Thomas, 77)

M. Winther

All good things come from God, and that includes the animating spirit of the animals. We worship the Creator, not the created. Your theology is completely lacking, based on subjective personal preference, and holds not one ounce of authority.

Jesus left us the Church, and we follow Jesus; ergo, we follow the Church.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

I sometimes think that God intended that the animals by their natures, and each in their own way, teach us simple lessons about the ultimate nature of things. They are used throughout the Bible as useful similes that all people can connect to and understand. An uneducated man or child may not fully appreciate the philosophic works of a Newman or an Aquinas, but Salvation is not intended only for the well-educated (or literate), but for all people, and the lessons of Creation are there for all to see.

It’s interesting that Jesus himself is symbolized as both the Lamb and the Lion (a type of cat) of Judah, representing both His meekness and His power. The Holy Spirit is most commonly depicted as a Dove.

Dogs, in their devotion to us and their love and willingness to forgive slights again and again, seem to be here, at least in part, as living metaphors for God’s love for us. One of Ray Bradbury’s last stories was based on this idea.

 

[MWin]

Anyway, in France’s story, it was St. Catherine who, in a typically feminine way, resolved the thelogical quandary. She said: “…That is why, Lord, I entreat you to give old Mael’s penguins a human head and breast so that they can praise you worthily. And grant them also an immortal soul—-but one of small size.”

Thus, the animals have a “little soul”. From this it does not follow that we have no right to eat animals. But it means that we partake in a cruel world, and we contribute to the immense suffering of beings that have a soul and can experience anguish and other pains of the soul. We have to accept that the world is cruel and stop pretending that we stand above the darkness of nature. In the 19th century people believed that animals wholly lack a soul. Thus, they practiced vivisection without anesthetics, that is, they cut animals open while alive. Of course, the animals screamed out in anguish and pain, but it was regarded merely as automatisms of the nervous system. They thought that they had no sentient soul. As a consequence the animals didn’t suffer. This is how the majority of people still reason today, in order to pretend that they are good. But it is falseness, the very characteristic that angered Jesus most.

I know from experience that intelligent cats have an awareness. They can relate to you as a human being. They can make jokes and they can make pretense. They can fool you by pretending to be sick, for instance. Animals also have sicknesses of the soul. Parrots, if left alone too much, get depressed and can even develop schizophrenia. Animals clearly have a soul, but a little one.
/Mats

 

[Della]

All living things have souls because the soul is the life force of the body be that body a human being or a cat. However, the cat does not have an immortal soul that must answer to God for its condition upon death. How intelligent an animal may be has nothing to do with the type of soul it has, for all animals have a limited soul compared to human beings, but it doesn’t mean we have the right to torment animals. The Church has always strictly forbidden the torture of animals and taught that food animals must be dispatched in the most humane ways possible.

I had a cat that was quite intelligent. She could recognize herself in a mirror, she even recognized pictures of cats as cats. She noticed when things had been moved out of place, having a very strong reaction when we tore down part of our house and dug a hole for a basement. The look on her face was priceless. So, yes, cats can be quite aware, but their souls are innocent of evil intentions even if they do things we think must be from human motives. Their understanding/perception of the world and their lives are quite different from ours. That they tolerate us and even show us affection is a wonder and a joy–one no doubt God wanted us to have.

One poet wrote that God gave us the cat so we could have the pleasure of caressing the tiger. A very apt observation for all cats are tigers at heart, even the tamest kitty cat sleeping on our hearth rug.

 

[MWin]

…]So, yes, cats can be quite aware, but their souls are innocent of evil intentions even if they do things we think must be from human motives. Their understanding/perception of the world and their lives are quite different from ours …]

Yes, they have a different awareness than us, but they do have moral awareness. They know right from wrong. A cat can feel ashamed when it has behaved badly. They do feel guilt. Recent research shows that little monkeys have a concept of fair treatment. If a monkey gets a peanut while the other monkeys get a juicy grape, it will throw away the peanut (although it loves peanuts) because it thinks that it has been unjustly treated.

If animals have a soul, even a “little” one, it means that they have recourse to an immortal soul. In Christian theology, the soul is immortal, per definition. To solve this dilemma, most theologians believe that animals merely have the “breath of life,” (nephesh in Hebrew), but not an immortal soul in the same sense as man’s. Thus, they reject the notion that animals have a soul proper. But this is evidently wrong, because animals give expression to the same characteristics that are present in humanity. They have a “little” moral consciousness, a “little” self-awareness, etc. We have no other choice than to realize that animals have an immortal soul, and that we do commit crimes against other beings on earth. So we are all murderers, although there is no way around this condition of life. This is the stain of Cain that we cannot wash out. So we have to stop pretending that we are good. It is hypocrisy. Not even the saints are good. They are just slightly less stained by sin.

M. Winther

 

[Lochias]

Yes, they have a different awareness than us, but they do have moral awareness. They know right from wrong. A cat can feel ashamed when it has behaved badly. They do feel guilt. Recent research shows that little monkeys have a concept of fair treatment. If a monkey gets a peanut while the other monkeys get a juicy grape, it will throw away the peanut (although it loves peanuts) because it thinks that it has been unjustly treated.

If animals have a soul, even a “little” one, it means that they have recourse to an immortal soul. In Christian theology, the soul is immortal, per definition. To solve this dilemma, most theologians believe that animals merely have the “breath of life,” (nephesh in Hebrew), but not an immortal soul in the same sense as man’s. Thus, they reject the notion that animals have a soul proper. But this is evidently wrong, because animals give expression to the same characteristics that are present in humanity. They have a “little” moral consciousness, a “little” self-awareness, etc. We have no other choice than to realize that animals have an immortal soul, and that we do commit crimes against other beings on earth. So we are all murderers, although there is no way around this condition of life. This is the stain of Cain that we cannot wash out. So we have to stop pretending that we are good. It is hypocrisy. Not even the saints are good. They are just slightly less stained by sin.

M. Winther

“And God saw that it was good.”

Kinda shoots down your entire argument, doesn’t it?