The Conversion of the Jews

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I suppose there might be a few individuals here and there who refuse to convert, but it would seem that the vast majority would need to.
 
Why did you post that?

You can’t just post something in that way without explaining why you think it applies.It doesn’t mean a thing to me since you are misunderstanding something.

I’m aware of millenarianism, I have a much more subtle view of eschatology. You have falsley waved the red flag. Tell me, what do you think the catechism means when it mentions 'that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history?

I haven’t made any claim about when Christ will come. I’m speculating about this:
674 The glorious Messiah’s coming is suspended at every moment of history until his recognition by “all Israel”, for “a hardening has come upon part of Israel” in their “unbelief” toward Jesus.568 St. Peter says to the Jews of Jerusalem after Pentecost: "Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out, that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that he may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus, whom heaven must receive until the time for establishing all that God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets from of old."569 St. Paul echoes him: "For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead?"570 The “full inclusion” of the Jews in the Messiah’s salvation, in the wake of “the full number of the Gentiles”,571 will enable the People of God to achieve “the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ”, in which “God may be all in all”.572
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and this
675 Before Christ’s second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers.573 The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth574 will unveil the “mystery of iniquity” in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. the supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.575
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Hope, why are you concerned about this? Are you obsessing over the end times?

What I think is this; I live my life and try to be as
Holy as I can be. The rest is noise. I don’t care about the end times speculation. I just want to be prepared for my own judgment day.
 
The Catholic Church is the new Israel. The modern nation state is irrelevant.

www.catholic.com

Israel and the Church

One of the disputes in Protestant circles is over the relationship between Israel and the Church and whether God still has a special purpose for the ethnic peop...
www.catholic.com www.catholic.com
 
According to the Catechism it is relavent to this topic

674 The glorious Messiah’s coming is suspended at every moment of history until his recognition by “all Israel”, for “a hardening has come upon part of Israel” in their “unbelief” toward Jesus.568 St. Peter says to the Jews of Jerusalem after Pentecost: "Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out, that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that he may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus, whom heaven must receive until the time for establishing all that God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets from of old."569 St. Paul echoes him: "For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead?"570 The “full inclusion” of the Jews in the Messiah’s salvation, in the wake of “the full number of the Gentiles”,571 will enable the People of God to achieve “the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ”, in which “God may be all in all”.572
 
Yours is the best stance for Christians to take. As to the Jews (myself included), let G-d work His salvation according to His own plan, not that of mortal humans, inspired as they may be.
 
Since when is the power of sin contained in the Law? For Jews, the Law is no yoke or burden; rather it is, as the Hebrew Bible clearly states, “sweeter than honey” and a means of sanctification. Jews believe the Torah is immortal, even after the coming of the Messiah and even predating the creation of the universe. Its interpretation, however, takes many a lifetime to decipher.
 
This is from St Paul’s letter to the Corinthians.
Cor 1-56

56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
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His reasoning is that before the Law there was no reckoning for sin. Before the Law sin didn’t have dominion over men. The Law entered and the knowledge of sin, consequently, trespass multiplied. After the introduction of the Law there came a reckoning for sin. So sin gained power and so, dominion over men through the Law. It’s purpose was to reveal sin and so reveal the power of sin over man and man’s inability to overcome it.
 
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I believe that it will be the Second coming itself, coming from on high, that will at that time, cause them to say, “ Well, they were right!”
 
DeepDeepTrouble3 said:
I believe that it will be the Second coming itself, coming from on high, that will at that time, cause them to say, “ Well, they were right!”
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I tend to agree with this, that it will happen en masse at His 2nd coming. Zechariah 12:11 is believed by Christians to prophecy The Jewish People coming to a belief in their Messiah when they actually see “the one whom they have pierced” (which foretold the piercing of Jesus’ hands and feet on the cross), and them mourning over Him as one mourns for an only son (also foretelling Jesus’ title as The Son of God–His Only Son)

“I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn.”

And then we have St. Paul’s words: "A hardening in part has come to Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come from Zion, He will remove godlessness from Jacob. And this is My covenant with them when I take away their sins.”…
 
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Okay, let’s take this into consideration what does it mean by Jews? Would it include secular Jews? People like me, who have very distant Jewish ancestry? Jewish people in the nation state of Israel? Converts to Judaism? I think we would have to answer those questions, before we can comment on it.
 
Hope,

Why do you fear the End Times? I don’t think they’ll be happening anytime soon. BTW, you posed a very interesting question. Thank you.

Stuart
 
I see. Well, contrary to what many believe (Christians, Jews, and others), Judaism does NOT focus on sin or punishment for sin. Instead, Judaism emphasizes good works, which, quantitatively, outnumber sins of commission in the Law. One might say that not doing good is a sin of omission; however, this too is not the main focus. Further, Judaism believes that man DOES have the power to overcome sin. This does not mean we will NEVER sin; but it does mean that G-d has instilled (or inspired) in us the capability of choosing good over evil. In this way, we were created in G-d’s image, a pale reflection, but nonetheless a reflection of the ultimate goodness of G-d. We were NOT created in sin or with sin according to Jewish teaching. We were created with the potential to do good and better the imperfect universe.
 
That’s what I thought.

There is nothing to fear. God is in charge, always. Most of the “end times” things you hear about are Protestant ideas, and they are NOT authentic or in line with Catholic teachings. Apocalyptic literature in the bible is difficult to read because of the symbolism, visions, etc. These letters were meant as encouragement for the people going through difficult times in their own age. They have relevance to every age. But they are NOT prophecy in the sense that we should be looking for signs and trying to shoehorn events going on in our day into them.

There are evil people in ever age. That is sin at work.

You DO NOT need to be concerned with the “end times”. you only need to live your life as a Christian ought. Simply strive to be holy in your every day life.

Talk to your spiritual director-- you know your situation leads to obsessing on things and scruples. You should probably refrain from reading things on the end times unless your pastor directs you to do so.

It takes a lot of bible study to properly understand these things. Most of what is out there that is non-Catholic is just plain incorrect.
 
Definitely not. Let G-d take care of personal salvation in His own way. Our mission here on Earth is to better ourselves and humanity, and make the world a better place for all as best we can in our own way. The true martyr does not or should not anticipate spiritual reward for an act of morality done to help or save others.
 
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