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George_Waters
Guest
Does Islam have any creation stories unique to Islam or does it only rely on the work of Mosses?
Peace,
George
Peace,
George
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Sagefrakrobatik
Guest
There is a slight difference for instance the representation of Adam is known as manu (i think thats the arabic form i could be wrong) anyways in the Quran it says that Allah created things in pairs and because of this there should be a more egaltarian society amongst both Muslim Men and Woman because they are both part of a pair from the same thing.Another difference that is a bit more clear is that they dont acknowledge the seventh day of creation as Jews and Christians believe. Instead Muslims according to the Quran, find it outlandish that a being who is omnipotent and omniscient and indepent of such things as time and space would need to rest.
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DeExupery
Guest
Dear Sage,
Oh that’s interesting. So how many times/days does it according to Quran? I am really interested…
Fox
Oh that’s interesting. So how many times/days does it according to Quran? I am really interested…
Fox
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Sagefrakrobatik
Guest
i believe 6 i havent read the Quran for about a year
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Sagefrakrobatik
Guest
I dont know how much a day is in Allah’s time according to the Quran. But in the bible it says God created the world in 7 days and on the seventh day he rested. And according to Peter one day for God is a thousand years so go figure
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George_Waters
Guest
I know we all have lives away from our computers, but I am curious as to why no Muslims have responded to this post? I have asked several questions on this forum about Islam out of sincere interest that have been ignored by Muslims. I had hoped there were some people here to help educate about Islam instead of just arguing why they are right and everyone else is wrong.
Forgive my cynical attitude, but I am starting to think perhaps Muslims don’t want to admit they do believe in the truthfulness of at least part of the Bible because that would lead to questions that they do not wish to, or are not prepared to, answer.
Peace,
George
Forgive my cynical attitude, but I am starting to think perhaps Muslims don’t want to admit they do believe in the truthfulness of at least part of the Bible because that would lead to questions that they do not wish to, or are not prepared to, answer.
Peace,
George
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Cyber_Knight
Guest
George Waters:
You wont get the answer here George. Maybe in other forum
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Sagefrakrobatik
Guest
perhaps there is ownly a couple muslims if any even on here. I think there is like only one LDS memeber on here so…
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eleusis
Guest
George Waters:
Islam is a very serious religion and we in the West need to gird ourselves for war for they will not stop. France is about to fall to it (my thesis topic is on Islam in France) and Germany, England and Italy will soon follow by the centuries end. This is not chicken little type warnings, this is reality and we need to decide how to confront it.
You are partly right, the Muslim community is not given to defending itself. In the West we have had our Christ subjected to every sort of criticism and debasement (anyone remember the dung-Jesus art controversey!) and yet Christianity has stood the test of time. We actually welcome a challenge and stand up willingly to debate and reason why we have faith. Our Muslim brothers are not from the same cloth. To them any questioning of Islam is blasphemy so they have not until recently had intellectuals in their communities step up and ask any hard questions because when they do they tend to be ostrascized from their clans/families or killed (Van Gough in Holland and the constant threat about the head of Salmon Rushdie). The Muslim you meet on the internet is a rare person if he/she is willing to debate their religion with you. There are too many pitfalls for them to expose themselves to. Islam is very much a community more than just a religion, this is why witnessing to them is very difficult, they cannot just break away and worship Christ without losing everything they know socially, all their friends and all their relatives will disown them and if they live in a land under Sharia law they can actually be legally murdered.
Islam is a very serious religion and we in the West need to gird ourselves for war for they will not stop. France is about to fall to it (my thesis topic is on Islam in France) and Germany, England and Italy will soon follow by the centuries end. This is not chicken little type warnings, this is reality and we need to decide how to confront it.
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cleobanzj
Guest
I agree with you, Rich. I gravitate around a muslim pakistani community because my husband is muslim. Last week, I attended a wedding party and got into a conversation with a very intelligent muslim woman who practices psychology. She wanted to have Pres. Bush imprisoned because of what he has done to Iraq. In her own words, she said that the Iraqis wanted to be in bondage with Saddam Hussein as their leader, a hundred times more, than to be free under US domination. 
She then proceeded to ask me what my opinion was as to this war. I turned the question around and asked her the reasons for the Islamic jihadists. Her response was, there are no Islamic jihadists, only people who cannot get legal redress because of America’s interference.
I asked her the reasons for this type of response (suicide bombers), her response was: “oh…culture, lack of redress…” She forgot about religion. So I volunteered that religion plays a role. She got so mad, she called my statement as “very idiotic” and looked liked she was very ashamed to be sitting next to me. She left immediately without giving me a chance to respond.
So you see, there is no discussing their religion with them.
Regards.
She then proceeded to ask me what my opinion was as to this war. I turned the question around and asked her the reasons for the Islamic jihadists. Her response was, there are no Islamic jihadists, only people who cannot get legal redress because of America’s interference.
I asked her the reasons for this type of response (suicide bombers), her response was: “oh…culture, lack of redress…” She forgot about religion. So I volunteered that religion plays a role. She got so mad, she called my statement as “very idiotic” and looked liked she was very ashamed to be sitting next to me. She left immediately without giving me a chance to respond.
So you see, there is no discussing their religion with them.
Regards.
J
jcaz
Guest
Eleusis, while I want to respect your opinions, as you are welcome to believe as you wish, but your opinions, regarding Muslims’ defending Islaam and be willing to ask questions, are completely wrong. Muslims are always taught to question and to think, and this is why it was and still is well known that some of the best thinkers in our history were Muslims. Even the format of the Quraan is to present a parable or a story and then Allaah asks, “don’t you realize” or “don’t you think”? Muslims have always been questioning and our religion has never been free from these questions. By questioning, we can, by the help of Allaah, only come closer to the truth.
Stating that a Muslim believes questioning is blasphemy is grossly innaccurate. So please, feel free to keep your opinions and I hope you do find whatever it is you look for in your research as a graduate student, but be not misguided with regards to facts about a religion. Attributing such false ideologies to any religion can make any person seem very uneducated.
Regards,
Jonathan
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jcaz
Guest
George Waters:
I know that all Muslim members would much prefer to spend their time posting on the teachings of Islaam and what we believe in. but you have certain Catholic members who do nothing but attack Islaam, and it is important to respond to these attacks. And if you look at the posts, there really are not enough Muslim members to respond to all of the foolish posts that are made. for example, r.gonzales, may Allaah reward him, is constantly responding to various attacks. Yet, as there are limited hours in a day, many posts end up with no responses.
And although this is a duty for those who have knowledge, to defend their religion, as we can see, it can also take away from answering those who are not attacking, but rather, are sincerely simply asking questions for a greater understanding. And this George, I do appreciate. I simply hope you can be patient. If no one responds to you this week, i will try to do so sometime next week. And if you do not see anything, just remind me.
Thanks.
Jonathan
George, up until now, I have found you to be sincere in your questions, and you have been one of the few Catholic members who I have enjoyed responding to. Please be patient as someone, perhaps myself, can respond to your posts. This has been a hectic few weeks, and my time on this forum has been very limited.
I know that all Muslim members would much prefer to spend their time posting on the teachings of Islaam and what we believe in. but you have certain Catholic members who do nothing but attack Islaam, and it is important to respond to these attacks. And if you look at the posts, there really are not enough Muslim members to respond to all of the foolish posts that are made. for example, r.gonzales, may Allaah reward him, is constantly responding to various attacks. Yet, as there are limited hours in a day, many posts end up with no responses.
And although this is a duty for those who have knowledge, to defend their religion, as we can see, it can also take away from answering those who are not attacking, but rather, are sincerely simply asking questions for a greater understanding. And this George, I do appreciate. I simply hope you can be patient. If no one responds to you this week, i will try to do so sometime next week. And if you do not see anything, just remind me.
Thanks.
Jonathan
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eleusis
Guest
“Jonathan”
I will keep my opinions, thank you, however not to myself alone.
You are not being truthful. For in Islam to ask questions about Allah’s existence, about Muhammad’s life and motives (remember the requirement to write “Peace be upon him” after mentioning his name) or to question the hadith are all crimes of blasphemy and are punishable by DEATH in Islam. (check this link out: iheu.org/node/1006 in this is shows how the laws are abused). One can also observe this fear of blasphemy in action by going to Barnes and Noble or other book stores, where is the Koran? Always on the top shelf for to put it below other books offends Muslims.
There are routinely seen press reports of death threats or legal actions taken by Islamists against writers or others who question or present satire about Muhammad or Islam. There is the woman in Italy (Journalist Orana Fallaci) who is being tried in court for her book* the Force of Reason* because it is “Offensive to Islam”, the cartoonists in Denmark who are in hiding for their lives for a drawing of Muhammad (Dutch Islamic leaders didn’t apologize for the threats but said the pictures were in-fact offensive) and of course we all know about Rushdie in Britain.
Satire and negative comments are all forms of questioning. Go ahead and stand in Pakistan or Medina and ask out loud a question about whether or not Muhammad was a prophet or a schitzo who was only hearing voices in his head or ask why it wasn’t until over a hundred years following his death that the story of his life was recreated in writing, its far easier to make up a story when there is no living witness around to refute it. (This is in contrast to Jesus who’s life was written about while his Apostles still lived and while there were literally hundreds of witnesses around to refute error or lies).
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eleusis
Guest
Cleo,
Did you have to convert to Islam? What of your children will they be raised knowing Christ TEXT DELETED? I suggest a book for you, but don’t bring it to any parties, called Why I am Not a Muslim by Ibn Warraq. This book does a fine job of laying out the problems with Islam, maybe if you read it and are given questions to ask and discuss with your husband you can lead him to Christ. I would also suggest the book Triumph, its about the history of the Catholic Church and is immanently readable.
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Booklover
Guest
eleusis said:
Rich, you are correct, he’s not telling the truth! In the article “The Secret of Muhammad’s Success”, ex-Muslim Ali Sina of faithfreedom.org states:
Right and wrong, good and bad are not appraised based on their own merits. Right is what Muhammad said or did and wrong is what he probihited. In other words, Muslims are not to judge Muhammad by norms of morality and common sense but rather the standards of morality and common sense are to be measured by Muhammad’s deeds and words.
This attitude exonerates Muslims from thinking. By following a uniform behavioral and thinking pattern the individual finds safety and comfort in the group.
Conformity is encouraged and independent thought is severely punished. Disagreeing with the majority can bring immense pain and hardship to the independent thinker.
Muslims are kept in line by pleasure/pain stimuli. By conforming they get rewarded. Their sycophantism if prized and it helps them to be accepted and cling to their social status. On the other hand independence of thought has severe consequences.
On the phychologial level the believer is terrorized with the fear of hell and lured by the promise of paradise. This psychological pressure is intended to discourage him from ever wandering in his mind on things that may shake his faith in the big lie.
This is another important factor that has helped Islam to survive for so many centuries. Muslims are discouraged and do not dare to think independently. Breaking that pattern and rebelling against conformity is so painful that the thought of that sends shivers down the spine of the believer. By thinking differently, the believer could lose his wife, his family, his friends, his job, his status, his respect, his property, his freedom and even his life.
The fear of the society and the fear of the afterlife are two main reasons Islam has endured so long. This lie has never been challenged and as long as it remains unperturbed, it will stay unscathed. The longevity of a lie is not a proof that it is true. Islam has survived because of the fear factor and not because it is true.
Socially, Islam contributes to the deindividuation of the believer. Deindividuation is a technical term for sheep mentality. This is a psychological state where sheep mentality is aroused when individuals join crowds or large groups.
Deindividuation is characterized by diminished awareness of self and individuality. In Islam individuality is completely denied and the individual’s life is fused with Ummah. He is not only reduced to a virtual slave, he is actually called by that name. People are called Ibaad, which literally means slaves.
Here’s the link to the complete article:
faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina40612.htm
Vickie
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