The Creation of Man and its Purpose

  • Thread starter Thread starter A_Servant
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
According to Genesis, God made man in “our image” 1:26 (NKJV)and in Ephesians 2:10 we read, "For we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. " (NKJV)
 
No one knowingly and volitionally would “choose” eternal suffering. And existence - in and by itself - cannot be taken superior to nonexistence.
Illogical…so killing/murder may be better for the victim? Societies throughout history think otherwise and punish the crime. Rejecting the creator results in an existence opposite of love, peace and joy…hell and suffering! Plain and simple.
Unfortunately your theology carries no convincing value for me. I am sure you don’t have a video which would show interviews with the souls is hell, who decline to be exterminated just so they could continue to despise God.
What words of encouragement then do you have for our existence? Purpose?
I don’t need to convince you of anything, however, if you’re sincere, give me a more convincing answer to life’s purpose? Should you do have a better answer to give, I’m sure that you have no proof. I myself do have logical convincing proof of the character of this existing creator should you desire.
And rewards it with eternal pain and suffering… how gracious!
Again…he doesn’t reward pain and suffering …sheesh!..in rejecting God, people accept the opposite. It’s akin to Light and Darkness and Heat and Cold. Cold and Darkness cannot be measured. You can however measure Light and Heat. Darkness is the absence of Light and Cold is the absence of Heat. The absence of God is turmoil, chaos and suffering.

God’s action in the world is directly related to our response to his commands. Even and as you say the creator has a responsibility to his creation, likewise, creation is subject to the creator, just as a son or daughter is subject to their parents. And just as parents are motivated into action by the obedience of their children…likewise with God!

However, the main goal is the saving of souls…choosing our creator and his ways.

And the creator has made himself known to the world via the prophets and by his only begotten son Jesus Christ.
 
Illogical…so killing/murder may be better for the victim?
That is a misinterpretation of what I said. If someone does not exist, you can do no harm or good to him. Not to create someone is not the same as killing an already existing person. Surely you see the difference?
What words of encouragement then do you have for our existence? Purpose?
I don’t need to convince you of anything, however, if you’re sincere, give me a more convincing answer to life’s purpose?
Life’s purpose (or meaning, if you prefer) is whatever you make it to be. Intrinsically nothing has a “purpose” or a “meaning”.
Again…he doesn’t reward pain and suffering … sheesh!.. in rejecting God, people accept the opposite.
The trouble is that I do not “reject” God, I simply do not believe that God exists. I do reject the Christian assertions that God exists, and he has certain attributes. Do you think that these are the same?
God’s action in the world is directly related to our response to his commands. Even and as you say the creator has a responsibility to his creation, likewise, creation is subject to the creator, just as a son or daughter is subject to their parents. And just as parents are motivated into action by the obedience of their children…likewise with God!
That would be a good argument, if only God’s very existence would not be so dubious, and of course, if his requirements were obvious.
And the creator has made himself known to the world via the prophets and by his only begotten son Jesus Christ.
And here is the weakest point. A whole bunch of stories, nothing more. No direct, obvious evidence that God actually exists, and no direct, obvious evidence of his requirements. Why should I accept the Catholic Church’s word, and reject the words of innumerable other religions? None of them offer a shred of evidence for their claims. It is just the (strong) conviction of fallible humans.
 
That was not the point. You said that our trespasses required a “sacrifice” in order to become “forgivable” - and you called that “perfect justice”. That is what I called nonsensical. Two wrongs still do not make one right.

But I will ask you to evaluate the following problem (which actually happened in real life): In Germany it happened that two people voluntarily made an agreement. One of them volitionally agreed to be killed and eaten by the other one. Just like Jesus in your argument, he could have refused to enter into the agreement. He did not refuse, and the act was carried out. How do you evaluate his act? He sacrificied his own life for the benefit of the other. Please do not waste time on pointing out the sick nature of the agreement. Concentrate on the action of the voluntary victim.
The victim had no right to give up his life in this way. God is the giver of life. God decides when our time starts, and when it ends. This is why the Church condemns abortion and euthanasia and the death penalty, and suicide. It is not for us to decide when to end a human life.

Jesus is God. He determined when his human life would end. As God, he is allowed to do that.
 
The victim had no right to give up his life in this way. God is the giver of life. God decides when our time starts, and when it ends. This is why the Church condemns abortion and euthanasia and the death penalty. It is not for us to decide when to end a human life.

Jesus is God. He determined when his human life would end. As God, he is allowed to do that.
According to your beliefs, you are, of course, correct. I just don’t share your beliefs.
 
Out of sincere curiosity …what is your take on the existence then of the universe?
…the universal acceptance of the Big Bang Theory among cosmologists? The law of Thermodynamics?
 
Out of sincere curiosity …what is your take on the existence then of the universe?
…the universal acceptance of the Big Bang Theory among cosmologists? The law of Thermodynamics?
The universe simply exists. It needs no explanation.

The Big Bang seems a likely event, but it would be a mistake to think that it was the “ultimate beginning”. It was the beginning of the current state of the universe. Space, time, causation are all defined within the universe. These cannot be defined for the universe. Exactly like the direction of north can be defined everywhere on Earth, except at the North Pole. That is all there to it. 🙂
 
=R Daneel;6599432]That is a misinterpretation of what I said. If someone does not exist, you can do no harm or good to him. Not to create someone is not the same as killing an already existing person. Surely you see the difference?
I guess I do???:confused:
Life’s purpose (or meaning, if you prefer) is whatever you make it to be. Intrinsically nothing has a “purpose” or a “meaning”.
Tell that to your granddaughter:shrug:
The trouble is that I do not “reject” God, I simply do not believe that God exists. I do reject the Christian assertions that God exists, and he has certain attributes. Do you think that these are the same?
This is where we of course differ. The existence of any thermodynamically effected matter is impossible without a creator… God!
That would be a good argument, if only God’s very existence would not be so dubious, and of course, if his requirements were obvious.
He’s seeking you now and wants you to live forever and share in his divine life!!!
And here is the weakest point. A whole bunch of stories, nothing more. No direct, obvious evidence that God actually exists, and no direct, obvious evidence of his requirements. Why should I accept the Catholic Church’s word, and reject the words of innumerable other religions? None of them offer a shred of evidence for their claims. It is just the (strong) conviction of fallible humans.
It’s good enough for me considering what you have on the table!!👍
 
Tell that to your granddaughter:shrug:
I only have a grandson, and he is only 5 years old. When he will be mature enough, I will tell him. 🙂 But he is a smart little fellow, he will realize it by himself.
This is where we of course differ. The existence of any thermodynamically effected matter is impossible without a creator… God!
The trouble is that the laws of thermodynamics are stochastic (not deterministic) laws, and they only apply to closed, finite systems - not the universe.
He’s seeking you now and wants you to live forever and share in his divine life!!!
I am not hiding anywhere. He is most welcome and tell me himself. My door is open.
It’s good enough for me considering what you have on the table!!👍
As they say: “your mileage may vary”. 🙂
 
[SIGN]
Thanks for the quote.

But the question is not solved. If it is God’s desire that all should be saved, why does he not use the suggested method of **creating everyone directly in heaven? **Obviously it would also be in our best interest, too (at least according to the Christian belief). The directly created people would still retain their freedom to worship or not worship God, so the “free will” argument is not applicable. [/SIGN]

God’s reason for creating man was because…he is a Creator. He already had myriads of Angelic Creatures in Heaven–now he wanted to create physical beings. The following is an excerpt from one of our books that may give everyone a whole new outlook.
My question for everyone is…after reading this How does Jesus’ death and God’s waiting for so long enter into this explanation?

*** ce chap. 16 pp. 188-193 pars. 1-11 Why Would God Permit Suffering? ***

A COMMON reason many people give for doubting the existence of a Creator is the prevalence of suffering in the world. Throughout the centuries there has been so much cruelty, bloodshed and outright evil, bringing great suffering to millions of innocent people. Thus many ask: ‘If there is a God, why does he permit all of this?’ Since, as we have seen, the Bible’s account best fits the facts about creation, can the Bible also help us to understand why a powerful Creator would permit so much suffering for such a long time?

2 The opening chapters of Genesis provide the background for answering this question. They describe the creation of a world without suffering. The first man and woman were put in a paradise setting, a beautiful gardenlike home called Eden, and they were given pleasant and challenging work. Regarding the earth, they were told “to cultivate it and to take care of it.” They also had supervision of “the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth.”—Genesis 1:28; 2:15.

3 In addition, since the first humans were created with perfect bodies and perfect minds, they were not defective in any way. Hence, there was no reason for them ever to suffer from sickness, old age or death. Instead, they had the prospect of an endless future in an earthly paradise.—Deuteronomy 32:4.

4 The first pair were also told to “be fruitful and become many and fill the earth.” As they would bear children, the human family would increase and extend the boundaries of the Paradise so that it would eventually encompass the entire earth. Thus, the human race would be a united family, all living in perfect health on a paradise earth.

The Need to Accept God’s Rule

5 However, for this harmony to continue, the first human pair had to accept their Creator’s right to govern human affairs. That is, they had to accept his sovereignty. Why? First of all, because it was proper. The maker of anything surely has a right to exercise a measure of control over what he has made. This principle has been reflected in ownership laws for centuries. In addition, humans needed to accept the direction of their Maker because of this crucial fact: They were not designed with the ability to govern themselves successfully apart from their Creator, any more than they could stay alive if they did not eat, drink and breathe. History has proved the Bible correct in saying: “To earthling man his way does not belong. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step.” (Jeremiah 10:23) As long as humans stayed within the guidelines set for them by their Creator, life would be continuous, successful and happy.

6 Also, humans were created to be free agents. They were not made to react like robots, or compelled to do certain things primarily out of instinct, as are animals or insects. But this freedom was to be relative, not absolute. It was to be exercised responsibly, within the boundaries of God’s laws, laws that worked for the common good. Note how the Bible sets out this principle: “Be as free people, and yet holding your freedom, not as an excuse for badness, but as slaves of God.” (1 Peter 2:16) Without law to govern human interrelations, there would be anarchy, and the lives of all persons would be affected adversely.

7 Thus, while relative freedom is desirable, too much freedom is not. If you give a child too much freedom, it may lead to his playing on a busy street, or putting his hand on a hot stove. Total freedom to make all of our own decisions without considering our Maker’s direction can cause all kinds of problems. That was the case with the first humans. They chose to misuse their gift of freedom. They decided, wrongly, to grasp for independence from their Creator and thereby “be like God.” They felt that they could determine for themselves what was right and what was wrong.—Genesis 3:5.

(THE KEY) 8 When the first humans pulled away from their Creator’s direction, what happened to them is similar to what happens when you pull out the plug of an electric fan. As long as the fan is plugged into a power source, it runs. But when disconnected, it slows down and eventually comes to a dead stop. That is what happened when Adam and Eve pulled away from their Creator, “the source of life.” (Psalm 36:9) Since they willfully chose a course of independence from their Maker, he let them learn the full meaning of their choice by leaving them on their own. As a Bible principle states: “If you leave [God] he will leave you.” (2 Chronicles 15:2) Without their Creator’s sustaining power, a gradual breakdown of mind and body began. In time, they grew old and died.—Genesis 3:19; 5:5.

Continued…
 
[SIGN]
dj dave;That is what happened when Adam and Eve pulled away from their Creator:
he will leave you.” (2 Chronicles 15:2) Without their Creator’s sustaining power, a gradual breakdown of mind and body began. In time, they grew old and died.—Genesis 3:19; 5:5.

Continued…
[/SIGN]

9 When Adam and Eve chose to be independent of their Maker, they fell from perfection. This was before they had any children. As a result, when they later had children, these reflected what the parents had become—imperfect. So the first humans became like a defective pattern. Everything produced from them was also defective. *Hence, we are all born imperfect and inherit the disabilities of aging, sickness and death. *This imperfection, along with separation from the Creator and his laws, opened the floodgates of human folly. Thus, mankind’s history has been filled with suffering, sorrow, sickness and death.—Psalm 51:5; Romans 5:12.

10 Is this to say that wickedness originated entirely with humans? No, there is more to it. The creation of intelligent creatures was not limited to humans. Already God had created countless spirit creatures in the heavens. (Job 38:4, 7) They too were free agents and also had a choice in accepting their Creator’s direction. One of those spirit creatures chose to dwell on a desire for independence. His ambition built up to such a degree that it moved him to challenge God’s authority. He told Adam’s wife, Eve, that they could break God’s law and yet, as he assured her, “You positively will not die.” (Genesis 3:4; James 1:13-15) His statements implied that they did not need their Creator in order for them to have continued life and happiness. In fact, he said that lawbreaking would actually improve matters for them, enabling them to be like God. Thus he called into question the validity of God’s laws and cast doubt on God’s way of governing them. Indeed, he cast doubt on their Creator’s very right to rule. For this misrepresentation he came to be called Satan, which means “resister,” and Devil, meaning “slanderer.” For the past 6,000 years this attitude of Satan has influenced mankind, advancing a policy of ‘rule or ruin.’—Luke 4:2-8; 1 John 5:19; Revelation 12:9.

11 But why did God not destroy these lawbreakers, both human and spirit, at the start? The answer lies in the fact that profound issues had been raised before all intelligent creation. One of the issues involved questions such as: **Would **independence from God’s sovereignty ever bring lasting benefits? Would God’s direction of people be better for them, or would man’s own direction be better? **Could **humans successfully govern this world independent of their Creator? In short, did humans really need God’s guidance? These questions required answers that only the passing of time could supply.

Now, how does Jesus’ death enter this?..and why has God waited so long to fulfill Ps 37: 10,11, 29? I will await some answers before I address what I believe the Bible teaches.
 
Code:
         I find fault with this interpretation, and would like your opinions on the matter as fellow philosophers and Catholics. But here is my current understanding:
        
                            We can never know completely, all of God's purposes, but according to the Catechism and Scripture God seems to reveal something much deeper than mere worship as a reason for our making. It seems to reveal that God Created us so that we could know him, love him and He us, and for us to share in His Divine Life. We sinned and God, being totally Good and truly is Goodness epitomized, is in direct conflict with sin. Sin is therefore, barriers that separate us from God and the true Joy we find in Him, thusly God Sent his Son according to His plan of great Mercy and Grace so that these barriers of sin could be removed through the sacrifice of Himself as the Son, so that we could approach our Creator once again in purity and Love and know Him more fully, and most of all, to share in His eternal Divine Life. God puts man over all His other Creations and reveals His Special Purpose for us for "only man is "able to know and love his creator"." (CCC 356) Of course this is a very General comment on our Purpose and doesn't even fully scratch the surface of God's Immortal Plan of Love. Lastly, Worship is not something God requires, we give our Worship and God receives it with great Joy, for in worship we recognize our wekness and our reliance on Him; true Worship can be nothing less that an act of True Love for the God who "first loved us".
To worship God, is to worship the glory of Love. Good is the existential expression of Love. God is love by nature and will. Love is intrinsic to Gods very nature. Gods very act of being is an act of eternal Love. Thus it necessarily follows that our creation is for the purpose of sharing in this fundamental act of being; that act which is revealed to us in the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. This is the eternal actuality of love. This is the divine and glorious mystery that is God. Rejoice!!! We do not deserve such a wonderful thing:).

Many people read God out of context. They fail to recognize Gods metaphysical attributes and thus when they hear phrases such as “Humans were created to serve God”, they assume that our creation is nothing more than an attempt at slavery, and therefore we have people saying “better to be a king in hell than a slave in heaven. However, it is far from the case that we are slaves”. Our coming in to being is an expression of love. We were created to serve the glory love. That is not slavery. It is eternal freedom. Love, when properly understood, is the true root of freedom and happiness.
 
It is interesting to see that everyone has an opinion on the reason and purpose for man’s creation and quotes from the Catechism abound but no one has hit the mark. It is simple, if one goes to the source - Genesis 2: *** “…and there was not a man to till the ground.”***; ***" And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it." ***
There you have it - man was created to WORK, that’s all.
 
It is interesting to see that everyone has an opinion on the reason and purpose for man’s creation and quotes from the Catechism abound but no one has hit the mark. It is simple, if one goes to the source - Genesis 2: *** “…and there was not a man to till the ground.”***; ***" And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it." ***
There you have it - man was created to WORK, that’s all.
You are taking this out of context from the rest of Gods message. To exist in and through God is to exist to serve what God is. To serve God is to serve love.

If you leave it out of context, it merely sounds as if God merely wanted workers, which is ridiculous.
 
"God was moved by His Goodness to create the world" (De Fide)

The motive which moved God to creation (finis operantis) is, as the Provincial Synod of Cologne declared in 1860, the love of His Absolute Goodness (amor bonitatis suae absolutae).
The motive for the Divine Act of Creation lies in God Himself: "The Lord hath made all things for himself’ (Prov. 16:4)
The Fathers testify that God did not create the world because He needed it, but in order to "pour out His benefits’ (Irenaeus)
St Thomas Aquinas teaches: “God does not act for His own profit, but only for His own Goodness.”
 
You are taking this out of context from the rest of Gods message. To exist in and through God is to exist to serve what God is. To serve God is to serve love.

If you leave it out of context, it merely sounds as if God merely wanted workers, which is ridiculous.
Not ridiculous at all seeing that the Genesis account of man’s creation was copied from the much older 7 Tablets of Creation from the Sumerians, which also stated that man was created to do the work the gods objected to do themselves. That later, the original purpose was considered rather harsh by the priesthood, who then embellished the record to allow for the life after death concept and instituted a reward and punishment clause does not detract from the original purpose. The concept of God as love is also a much later addition to the belief system, considering that the original idea of God was not of a very lovable entity.
 
When we understand that in the ancient Near East only monarchs were considered to be images of the divine, we can appreciate more fully the high status that is conferred on each one of us. According to Genesis, all human beings are created in the image of God (Gen 1:26-27).
 
When we understand that in the ancient Near East only monarchs were considered to be images of the divine, we can appreciate more fully the high status that is conferred on each one of us. According to Genesis, all human beings are created in the image of God (Gen 1:26-27).
That also refers to the Sumerian belief that the gods created the human worker in their physical image. Yet, the second account of Creation, that of Adam, only states that God formed man from the dust of the earth and then animated him with his “spirit”, which could be much like bringing back to life heart attack patients. No mention of any “image” here.
 
“God created man to His own image. To the image of God He created him. Male and female He created them” (Gen 1:27)

“And the Lord God formed man out of the slime of the earth and breathed into his face the breath of life, and man became a living soul” (Gen 2:7)

The Encyclical “Humani generi” of Pius XII (1950) lays down that the question of the origin of the human body is open to free research by natural scientists and theologians.
 
Not ridiculous at all seeing that the Genesis account of man’s creation was copied from the much older 7 Tablets of Creation from the Sumerians, which also stated that man was created to do the work the gods objected to do themselves. That later, the original purpose was considered rather harsh by the priesthood, who then embellished the record to allow for the life after death concept and instituted a reward and punishment clause does not detract from the original purpose. The concept of God as love is also a much later addition to the belief system, considering that the original idea of God was not of a very lovable entity.
Uh huh. Why is Sacred Scripture called Sacred? To honor men or to honor God.? Who spoke through the prophets? Men?

God bless,
Ed
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top