The Creed

  • Thread starter Thread starter Kanda
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
K

Kanda

Guest
I have a friend who is Christain, but not Catholic. (I am not sure what she exactly practices. I think maybe protestant?) She attended the baptism of my children, which was performed during a regular Sunday mass.

I thanked her for attending eventhough she is not Catholic and she said that there were many similarities to the masses she attends. She even said that the creed is the same.

Here is my question:
Why do non-Catholics say the creed with the line “We believe in one holy CATHOLIC and apostolic church”? I asked her and she said that she never thought about it. It seems to me that if I was not Catholic and was required to say that, I would have some questions.

Just curious. Thanks.
 
Kanda said:
I have a friend who is Christain, but not Catholic. (I am not sure what she exactly practices. I think maybe protestant?) She attended the baptism of my children, which was performed during a regular Sunday mass.

I thanked her for attending eventhough she is not Catholic and she said that there were many similarities to the masses she attends. She even said that the creed is the same.

Here is my question:
Why do non-Catholics say the creed with the line “We believe in one holy CATHOLIC and apostolic church”? I asked her and she said that she never thought about it. It seems to me that if I was not Catholic and was required to say that, I would have some questions.

Just curious. Thanks.
Click to expand...
They don’t say it because they don’t belong to it and don’t believe in it. When we Catholics say it we are acknowledging the Four marks of the Church. One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic. These are the four marks that we believe in. Your friend as well as other protestants don’t believe in it.
 
The Methodist has 3 versions of the Apostles Creed. The one version that has “Catholic” in it, they believe it means the universal church, that invisible body of believers.

I know some Baptists that left the Methodist church because of that word in the Creed.

It’s ironic to an extent. The Presbyterians here have adopted the "Nicene Creed’ and say it once a month. 3 weeks of the month they say the Apostles Creed and on the 4th Sunday they say the Nicene Creed.

I got braved and asked the owner of the company I worked for, and told him I was Catholic and I found out that they recite the Nicene Creed. He told me that the Catholic part does not mean the “Roman Catholic Church”. I inwardly rolled my eyes and walked away. I would hazard a guess that 99% of that congregation have no clue that the Nicene Creed was developed at a Catholic Council…
 
JoeyWarren said:
The Methodist has 3 versions of the Apostles Creed. The one version that has “Catholic” in it, they believe it means the universal church, that invisible body of believers.

I know some Baptists that left the Methodist church because of that word in the Creed.

It’s ironic to an extent. The Presbyterians here have adopted the "Nicene Creed’ and say it once a month. 3 weeks of the month they say the Apostles Creed and on the 4th Sunday they say the Nicene Creed.

I got braved and asked the owner of the company I worked for, and told him I was Catholic and I found out that they recite the Nicene Creed. He told me that the Catholic part does not mean the “Roman Catholic Church”. I inwardly rolled my eyes and walked away. I would hazard a guess that 99% of that congregation have no clue that the Nicene Creed was developed at a Catholic Council…
Click to expand...
We say it every Liturgy in the Eastern Orthodox Church.

It doesnt refer exclusively to “Roman” Catholicism, but to catholicism in general as in the first millenium church.
 
StMarkEofE said:
We say it every Liturgy in the Eastern Orthodox Church.

It doesnt refer exclusively to “Roman” Catholicism, but to catholicism in general as in the first millenium church.
Click to expand...
Your point is duly noted. Eastern is Catholic, not Roman Catholic. Sorry for the confusion. But I would hazard as well that these Presbyterians don’t know much about the East either. In their limited knowledge, a Catholic Church means RCC.
 
Kanda said:
I have a friend who is Christain, but not Catholic. (I am not sure what she exactly practices. I think maybe protestant?) She attended the baptism of my children, which was performed during a regular Sunday mass.

I thanked her for attending eventhough she is not Catholic and she said that there were many similarities to the masses she attends. She even said that the creed is the same.

Here is my question:
Why do non-Catholics say the creed with the line “We believe in one holy CATHOLIC and apostolic church”? I asked her and she said that she never thought about it. It seems to me that if I was not Catholic and was required to say that, I would have some questions.

Just curious. Thanks.
Click to expand...
I know that in some Non-Catholic Church the creed reads: We (or I) believe in one holy CHRISTIAN and Apostolic church. see link for one example: lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=3356

To be honest I don’t know if LCMS is the only one or if there are more… I don’t know how many Churches use the creed.
 
The creed for a lot of Protestant Churches says Catholic.

Recently, many have removed or replaced it due to thier disdain of the Roman Catholic Church. But origionally, and for those non-Catholics who still use it, it simply means “Universal.” From the Greek word Catholikos. I think I spelled it right.
 
onmywayagain said:
They don’t say it because they don’t belong to it and don’t believe in it. When we Catholics say it we are acknowledging the Four marks of the Church. One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic. These are the four marks that we believe in. Your friend as well as other protestants don’t believe in it.
Click to expand...
But they do say it. My friend (who is protestant… I called her and asked) does say it at her church. My boss, who is englican (sorry about spelling) also says it at his church.

My question then is why do they say it if they do not believe in it. Also, I thought it odd that my friend never thought to question this phrasology before.

Another post on here says that they use the word from the greek root meaning universal. That makes sense to me.
 
It means catholic with a lower-case “c”, as in universal. If you look closely at the spelling in a Catholic missallette, in both the Nicene Creed and the Apostles’ Creed, we Catholics also use the lower case spelling of “catholic” in our creeds.
 
Just a few notes (tripe to some;)) from one of those “bible only” guys:

one…(meaning the one and only true church where membership is necessary for salvation)…YES!

catholic…( meaning universal)…YES!

apostolic…(meaning “built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone.” Eph. 2:20-22 )…YES!

church…(meaning MY (as in CHRIST’S) church Matt. 16:18)…YES!

I also accept the “rock” in Matt. 16:18 as Jesus referring to Peter, but Eph.2:20 prevents me from carrying the rock as far as the RCC does. We still all belong to the ONE True Church if we have become one of the “whosoevers” that truly accept and believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ as our Redeemer.
 
mark_a said:
It doesn’t in our Roman Catholic Church either, does it?

How 'bout the apostolic part?
Click to expand...
Not really sure. catholic or Catholic. A rose is a rose… by any other name is still a rose.
 
JoeyWarren said:
Not really sure. catholic or Catholic. A rose is a rose… by any other name is still a rose.
Click to expand...
No it’s not. The word Catholic means universal. The Roman Catholic Church does not necessarrily mean the same as “catholic” when seen in literature. It’s just become normal to shorten RCC to just Catholic.
 
Kanda said:
I have a friend who is Christain, but not Catholic. (I am not sure what she exactly practices. I think maybe protestant?) She attended the baptism of my children, which was performed during a regular Sunday mass.

I thanked her for attending eventhough she is not Catholic and she said that there were many similarities to the masses she attends. She even said that the creed is the same.

Here is my question:
Why do non-Catholics say the creed with the line “We believe in one holy CATHOLIC and apostolic church”? I asked her and she said that she never thought about it. It seems to me that if I was not Catholic and was required to say that, I would have some questions.

Just curious. Thanks.
Click to expand...
Because we believe to be a part of the Church of Christ. In the Creed, “catholic” comes from the Greek katholikos, meaning “all over the world” or “universal”. It has nothing to do with denomination or churches, but having part in the universal belief proclaimed in the Creed.

I come from Norway, and instead of using a Greek or Latin word in our translation of the creed, we use a Norwegian word for katholikos - “allmenn”. We could of course say catholic (katolsk), but then we wouldn’t understand the meaning of the word.

To me, as a Lutheran protestant in a country where the Lutheran state church and other churches (including the Catholic) have a very good relationship, this common creed helps me to see that we all share the same fundamental belief.

There are more uniting us than there are things separating us.

Frost
 
pira114 said:
No it’s not. The word Catholic means universal. The Roman Catholic Church does not necessarrily mean the same as “catholic” when seen in literature. It’s just become normal to shorten RCC to just Catholic.
Click to expand...
Well, the RCC is not really called the “Catholic Church” either - we just use that name to distinguish it from the tens of thousands of other Christian churches out there. The RCC is “The Church” because it’s the original Church founded on St. Peter (that’s according to Catholic teaching - I’m not looking to start any arguments over this with those who don’t agree). “Catholic” is just one of its attributes, and the one that was chosen to distinguish it. So along those lines, when we say the phrase “one holy catholic and apostolic Church”, that whole line would define the Catholic church, not just the “catholic” part, as all four of the characteristics listed there are its distinguishing features - and if you read “Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth”, it argues that the RCC is the only church to have all 4 of these characteristics.
 
Morning_Star15 said:
… when we say the phrase “one holy catholic and apostolic Church”, that whole line would define the Catholic church, not just the “catholic” part, as all four of the characteristics listed there are its distinguishing features - and if you read “Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth”, it argues that the RCC is the only church to have all 4 of these characteristics.
Click to expand...
Well actually, the Holy Orthodox church likewise has these four marks.

There is a reason why the recent Popes have been so eager to reconcile the east and the west.

View attachment 545
 
I would just like to thank everyone who has helped to clear this issue up for me. It makes sense why other denominations use the word. I was just curious, especially since my friend could not answer the question for me.

Thank you.
 
pira114 said:
No it’s not. The word Catholic means universal. The Roman Catholic Church does not necessarrily mean the same as “catholic” when seen in literature. It’s just become normal to shorten RCC to just Catholic.
Click to expand...
The RCC is the Universal Church. The RCC is the Catholic Church. Jesus did not create any other church.

RCC = The Church = Catholic = Universal = …
 
pira114 said:
No it’s not. The word Catholic means universal. The Roman Catholic Church does not necessarrily mean the same as “catholic” when seen in literature. It’s just become normal to shorten RCC to just Catholic.
Click to expand...
While all Roman Catholics are part of the Catholic Church headed by the pope, not all Catholics headed by the pope are Roman Catholics.
 
mark_a said:
While all Roman Catholics are part of the Catholic Church headed by the pope, not all Catholics headed by the pope are Roman Catholics.
Click to expand...
Very true! There are also Eastern Catholic Churches that are in full communion with the Pope. Roman Catholic is just the Latin Rite of the Church. The Byzantine, Melkite, Maronite, etc. are other Catholic Rites who all recognize the Holy Father but have different liturgies.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top