THE CRUCIFIXION by An Eyewitness

[paarsurrey]

With the courtesy of:
harisingh.com/news2C4.htm

Now it so happened that after the earthquake, and many of the people had gone away, Joseph and Nicodemus arrived at the cross. They were informed of the death of the crucified, in the garden of our Brethren, not far from Calvary.

Although they loudly lamented his fate, it nevertheless appeared strange to them that Jesus, having hung less than seven hours, should already be dead. They could not believe it, and hastily went up to the place. There they found John alone, he having determined to see what became of the beloved body.

Joseph and Nicodemus examined the body of Jesus, and Nicodemus, greatly moved, drew Joseph aside and said to him: “As sure as is my knowledge of life and nature, so sure is it possible to save him.”

But Joseph did not understand him, and he admonished us that we would not tell John of what we had heard. Indeed, it was a secret, which was to save our Brother from death.
Nicodemus shouted: “We must immediately have the body with its bones unbroken, because he may still be saved”; then, realizing his want of caution, he continued in a whisper: “saved from being infamously buried.”

He persuaded Joseph to disregard his own interest, that he might save their friend by going immediately to Pilatus, and prevailing upon him to permit them to take Jesus’ body from the cross that very night and put it in the sepulchre, hewn in the rock close by, and which belonged to Joseph.

I, understanding what he meant, remained with John to watch the cross and prevent the soldiers from breaking the bones of Jesus.
No corpse is allowed to remain on the cross over night, and the next day being Sunday, they would not take him down and bury him early.

The Jewish council had already demanded of Pilate an order to the soldiers to break the bones of the crucified, that they might be buried.

Soon after Joseph and Nicodemus had departed, each one on his sacred mission, a messenger arrived bringing the order to the Centurion to take down the corpses and bury them. I myself was greatly agitated by this information, for I knew if he were not handled with great care he could not be saved, and still less if his bones were to be broken.

Even John was dismayed, though not from fear of the plans being frustrated, for of these he did not know. But he was deeply grieved at the thought of seeing the body of his friend mutilated. For John believed that Jesus was dead.

As the messenger arrived, I hastened to him, thinking and hoping that Joseph already might have seen Pilate, a thing of which there in reality was no possibility.

“Does Pilate send you?” I asked of him.
And he answered, “I come not from Pilate, but from his secretary, who acts for the governor in such unimportant matters.”

The Centurion observing my anxiety, looked at me, and in the manner of a friend, I said to him: “You have seen that this man that is crucified is an uncommon man. Do not maltreat him, for a rich man among the people is now with Pilate to offer him money for the corpse, that he may give it a decent burial.”

My dear Brethren, I must here inform you that Pilate often did sell the bodies of the crucified to their friends that they might thus bury them.
And the Centurion was friendly to me, inasmuch as he had conceived from the events that Jesus was an innocent man. And therefore, when the two thieves were beaten by the soldiers with heavy clubs and their bones broken, the Centurion went past the cross of Jesus, saying to the soldiers: “Do not break his bones, for he is dead.”

And a man was seen rapidly approaching along the road from the castle of Antonia to Calvary. He advanced to the Centurion and brought to him the order that he should quickly come to Pilate.
The Centurion then questioned the messenger to learn what Pilate wanted of him at so late an hour of the night. The messenger answered that Pilate desired to know if Jesus was indeed dead.

“So he is”, said the Centurion, “therefore we have not broken his bones.”

To be more sure of it, one of the soldiers stuck a spear into the body in such a manner that it passed over the hip and into the side. The body showed no convulsions, and this was taken as a sure sign that he was actually dead; and he hurried and went away to make his report.

But from the insignificant wound flowed blood and water, at which John wondered and my own hope revived. For even John knew, from the knowledge of our Brotherhood that from a wound in a dead body flows nothing but a few drops of thickened blood; but now there flowed both water and blood.

I was deeply anxious that Joseph and Nicodemus should return. At last some Galilean women were seen approaching on their return from Bethania, whither they had brought Mary, the mother of Jesus, in the care of the Essene friends.

And among the women was also Mary, the sister of Lazarus, who had loved Jesus and she wept loudly. But before she could pour out her grief and while John was gazing intently at the wound in Jesus’ side, heeding naught else, Joseph and Nicodemus returned in great haste. Joseph through his dignity had moved Pilate, and Pilate, having information as to the death of the crucified, gave the body to Joseph, and without taking pay therefore.

For Pilate had a great reverence for Joseph, and secretly repented of the execution. When Nicodemus saw the wound, flowing with water and blood, his eyes were animated with new hope, and he spoke encouragingly, foreseeing what was to happen.

harisingh.com/news2C4.htm

I love Jesus, Mary, Joseph and Nicodemus

Thanks

 

[Verbum_Caro]

“Secret” histories merit very little consideration. My understanding is that a translation of this “document” appeared in the 19th century, but no one has been able to bring forth the original document or any document that predates the original 19th century “translation”.

 

[Ag_not]

With the courtesy of:
harisingh.com/news2C4.htm

Now it so happened that after the earthquake, and many of the people had gone away, Joseph and Nicodemus arrived at the cross. They were informed of the death of the crucified, in the garden of our Brethren, not far from Calvary.

Although they loudly lamented his fate, it nevertheless appeared strange to them that Jesus, having hung less than seven hours, should already be dead. They could not believe it, and hastily went up to the place. There they found John alone, he having determined to see what became of the beloved body.

Joseph and Nicodemus examined the body of Jesus, and Nicodemus, greatly moved, drew Joseph aside and said to him: “As sure as is my knowledge of life and nature, so sure is it possible to save him.”

But Joseph did not understand him, and he admonished us that we would not tell John of what we had heard. Indeed, it was a secret, which was to save our Brother from death.
Nicodemus shouted: “We must immediately have the body with its bones unbroken, because he may still be saved”; then, realizing his want of caution, he continued in a whisper: “saved from being infamously buried.”

He persuaded Joseph to disregard his own interest, that he might save their friend by going immediately to Pilatus, and prevailing upon him to permit them to take Jesus’ body from the cross that very night and put it in the sepulchre, hewn in the rock close by, and which belonged to Joseph.

I, understanding what he meant, remained with John to watch the cross and prevent the soldiers from breaking the bones of Jesus.
No corpse is allowed to remain on the cross over night, and the next day being Sunday, they would not take him down and bury him early.

The Jewish council had already demanded of Pilate an order to the soldiers to break the bones of the crucified, that they might be buried.

Soon after Joseph and Nicodemus had departed, each one on his sacred mission, a messenger arrived bringing the order to the Centurion to take down the corpses and bury them. I myself was greatly agitated by this information, for I knew if he were not handled with great care he could not be saved, and still less if his bones were to be broken.

Even John was dismayed, though not from fear of the plans being frustrated, for of these he did not know. But he was deeply grieved at the thought of seeing the body of his friend mutilated. For John believed that Jesus was dead.

As the messenger arrived, I hastened to him, thinking and hoping that Joseph already might have seen Pilate, a thing of which there in reality was no possibility.

“Does Pilate send you?” I asked of him.
And he answered, “I come not from Pilate, but from his secretary, who acts for the governor in such unimportant matters.”

The Centurion observing my anxiety, looked at me, and in the manner of a friend, I said to him: “You have seen that this man that is crucified is an uncommon man. Do not maltreat him, for a rich man among the people is now with Pilate to offer him money for the corpse, that he may give it a decent burial.”

My dear Brethren, I must here inform you that Pilate often did sell the bodies of the crucified to their friends that they might thus bury them.
And the Centurion was friendly to me, inasmuch as he had conceived from the events that Jesus was an innocent man. And therefore, when the two thieves were beaten by the soldiers with heavy clubs and their bones broken, the Centurion went past the cross of Jesus, saying to the soldiers: “Do not break his bones, for he is dead.”

And a man was seen rapidly approaching along the road from the castle of Antonia to Calvary. He advanced to the Centurion and brought to him the order that he should quickly come to Pilate.
The Centurion then questioned the messenger to learn what Pilate wanted of him at so late an hour of the night. The messenger answered that Pilate desired to know if Jesus was indeed dead.

“So he is”, said the Centurion, “therefore we have not broken his bones.”

To be more sure of it, one of the soldiers stuck a spear into the body in such a manner that it passed over the hip and into the side. The body showed no convulsions, and this was taken as a sure sign that he was actually dead; and he hurried and went away to make his report.

But from the insignificant wound flowed blood and water, at which John wondered and my own hope revived. For even John knew, from the knowledge of our Brotherhood that from a wound in a dead body flows nothing but a few drops of thickened blood; but now there flowed both water and blood.

I was deeply anxious that Joseph and Nicodemus should return. At last some Galilean women were seen approaching on their return from Bethania, whither they had brought Mary, the mother of Jesus, in the care of the Essene friends.

And among the women was also Mary, the sister of Lazarus, who had loved Jesus and she wept loudly. But before she could pour out her grief and while John was gazing intently at the wound in Jesus’ side, heeding naught else, Joseph and Nicodemus returned in great haste. Joseph through his dignity had moved Pilate, and Pilate, having information as to the death of the crucified, gave the body to Joseph, and without taking pay therefore.

For Pilate had a great reverence for Joseph, and secretly repented of the execution. When Nicodemus saw the wound, flowing with water and blood, his eyes were animated with new hope, and he spoke encouragingly, foreseeing what was to happen.

harisingh.com/news2C4.htm

I love Jesus, Mary, Joseph and Nicodemus

Thanks

Do you truely believe this

If so, I have a bridge you might be interested in

 

[paarsurrey]

If so, I have a bridge you might be interested in

Hi

May God Allah bless you!

I love Jesus and Mary; what is this bridge you want to mention? I think it is the bridge of love and peace. Isn’t it?

Thanks

 

[abucs]

Paarsurrey,

if a man is nailed to a cross, exhausted from being flogged and struggling for breath, don’t you think that the Roman soldiers would notice this ?

In order to breathe on the cross you have to continually lift yourself up.

Even if you ignore this, you can easily see someone’s naked ribs move up and down if they are still breathing.

Unless of course Jesus withstood all the torture, the weather, the cramps, the nails through the feet and wrists and then withstood a spear through the heart that probably punctured a lung and then held his breath for over an hour while Nicodemus went to see Pilate, then withstood being taken down from the cross, still holding his breath until he got to the tomb.

Almost makes the ressurrection look like small potatoes.

I’ve got a bridge too Paarsurrey if you can’t see the problem with this thinking.

Why do you listen to every other dubious source of what happened to Jesus apart from the oldest and most reliable accounts ?

How much do you get paid to continually invent all these stories ?

I hope it is worthwhile you spreading as much doubt and lies about any claim Christianity makes.

Perhaps one day you actually might think about the possibility of the Christian message.

 

[Geocacher]

It is so strange, how the Ahmadis, are a breakaway group from Islam, like the Mormons, are a breakaway group from christianity. Both the Ahmadis and Mormons are thought to be cults, by their respective groups, of Muslims and Christians.

Ahmadis and Mormons:
google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=t&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4ADBF_enUS245US245&q=Mormon+Ahmadi

Ahmadiyya, a late 19th-century movement that considers its founder Mirza Ghulam Ahmad a latter-day prophet who came to perfect Islam, says it is a Muslim denomination. Most Muslim scholars dispute this, saying Mohammed was the last one, the “seal of the prophets”. Comparisons between religions are always tricky, but its situation looks similar to that of Mormonism within Christianity. Mormons say they are Christians with latter-day prophets and scriptures, but several traditional Christian churches dispute this. This disagreement may have lost Mitt Romney some votes in the Republican primaries in the United States, but otherwise it has not had much effect on public life.
blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/06/11/hunting-for-heretics-in-the-21st-century/

Very interesting that in some countries, they are trying to rid themselves of the Ahmadi group, like in indonesia.

Mormons had split into different groups, as the Ahmadis also split into two groups, that don’t get along.

Religions don’t seem to want to get along, even the splinter groups.

Family tree of Islamic religions:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divisions_of_Islam

Sorry about this off topic post, but I thought it was interesting.

 

[cyberjacques]

The pages after the quoted one include mention of secret medicinal concoctions known only in “our Order” that had great healing properties. Isn’t that convenient? You’d think if the author wanted to be taken seriously, they would have described the recipe for said medicine so it could be verified. But instead they make a specific point of mentioning how secret and unusually powerful it is. This is a technique common to science fiction, loosely describing some material with a bizarre property or amazing effect, but not going into too much detail. Such materials are often referred to as Unobtainium. This mysterious wonder-salve is nothing more than fictional Unobtainium.

Not to mention that after everything Jesus had suffered, even if he had still been alive, the spear would have killed him. And as has already been pointed out, once a crucified person lost consciousness, they could no longer breathe. Jesus would have been dead mere minutes after passing out. So if more than six minutes or so had passed between Jesus passing out and the soldier stabbing him with the spear, he would have already been dead.

Since all these various alternate stories make so little medical or rational sense, I’m inclined not to believe them. Jesus died on the cross. Died as in dead, not comatose or passed out. Dead. Otherwise you must also argue that everything else written about his death and resurrection were all deliberate lies. Which, in turn, begs the question, why would his disciples all allow themselves to be martyred, usually in horrific ways, for a lie?

 

[bpbasilphx]

I love Jesus and Mary; what is this bridge you want to mention?

Such a pity that the ones you love are not the real ones.

 

[ferdie]

Paarsurrey,

if a man is nailed to a cross, exhausted from being flogged and struggling for breath, don’t you think that the Roman soldiers would notice this ?

In order to breathe on the cross you have to continually lift yourself up.

Even if you ignore this, you can easily see someone’s naked ribs move up and down if they are still breathing.

Unless of course Jesus withstood all the torture, the weather, the cramps, the nails through the feet and wrists and then withstood a spear through the heart that probably punctured a lung and then held his breath for over an hour while Nicodemus went to see Pilate, then withstood being taken down from the cross, still holding his breath until he got to the tomb.

Almost makes the ressurrection look like small potatoes.

I’ve got a bridge too Paarsurrey if you can’t see the problem with this thinking.

Why do you listen to every other dubious source of what happened to Jesus apart from the oldest and most reliable accounts ?

How much do you get paid to continually invent all these stories ?

I hope it is worthwhile you spreading as much doubt and lies about any claim Christianity makes.

Perhaps one day you actually might think about the possibility of the Christian message.

Maybe he can experiment on this, let himself be tied on a cross naked for let say an hour and have somebody standing at the foot of the cross and see if they can see his chest move while breathing!

 

[swariffin]

Paarsurrey,

if a man is nailed to a cross, exhausted from being flogged and struggling for breath, don’t you think that the Roman soldiers would notice this ?

In order to breathe on the cross you have to continually lift yourself up.

Even if you ignore this, you can easily see someone’s naked ribs move up and down if they are still breathing.

Unless of course Jesus withstood all the torture, the weather, the cramps, the nails through the feet and wrists and then withstood a spear through the heart that probably punctured a lung and then held his breath for over an hour while Nicodemus went to see Pilate, then withstood being taken down from the cross, still holding his breath until he got to the tomb.

Almost makes the ressurrection look like small potatoes.

I’ve got a bridge too Paarsurrey if you can’t see the problem with this thinking.

Why do you listen to every other dubious source of what happened to Jesus apart from the oldest and most reliable accounts ?

How much do you get paid to continually invent all these stories ?

I hope it is worthwhile you spreading as much doubt and lies about any claim Christianity makes.

Perhaps one day you actually might think about the possibility of the Christian message.

Of course, Paar is interested with any kind of mumbo jumbo theory. Because, the death of Jesus from the cross will wipe out the very basic foundation of his belief, who believes that Jesus survive the crucifiction and went to India.

 

[swariffin]

The pages after the quoted one include mention of secret medicinal concoctions known only in “our Order” that had great healing properties. Isn’t that convenient? You’d think if the author wanted to be taken seriously, they would have described the recipe for said medicine so it could be verified. But instead they make a specific point of mentioning how secret and unusually powerful it is. This is a technique common to science fiction, loosely describing some material with a bizarre property or amazing effect, but not going into too much detail. Such materials are often referred to as Unobtainium. This mysterious wonder-salve is nothing more than fictional Unobtainium.

Not to mention that after everything Jesus had suffered, even if he had still been alive, the spear would have killed him. And as has already been pointed out, once a crucified person lost consciousness, they could no longer breathe. Jesus would have been dead mere minutes after passing out. So if more than six minutes or so had passed between Jesus passing out and the soldier stabbing him with the spear, he would have already been dead.

Since all these various alternate stories make so little medical or rational sense, I’m inclined not to believe them. Jesus died on the cross. Died as in dead, not comatose or passed out. Dead. Otherwise you must also argue that everything else written about his death and resurrection were all deliberate lies. Which, in turn, begs the question, why would his disciples all allow themselves to be martyred, usually in horrific ways, for a lie?

If that kind of medicine ever exist, then its power surpassed any modern 21st medicine. Can you imagine that applying such medicine can cure a person deeply stub by spear, and survive with such open wound without any stiching. The wound is large enough that Thomas can put his hand into.

 

[ralphinal]

If that kind of medicine ever exist, then its power surpassed any modern 21st medicine. Can you imagine that applying such medicine can cure a person deeply stub by spear, and survive with such open wound without any stiching. The wound is large enough that Thomas can put his hand into.

I was thinking the same thing. The fact that this knowledge was not shared with the world tells me that those who had it HATED mankind and did not care for others. That would mean that Jesus and his followers were the most heartless and cruel people to ever live.

Unless the whole story is false…

 

[cyberjacques]

If that kind of medicine ever exist, then its power surpassed any modern 21st medicine. Can you imagine that applying such medicine can cure a person deeply stub by spear, and survive with such open wound without any stiching. The wound is large enough that Thomas can put his hand into.

That’s a good point. Even with modern medical technology, I don’t think we could really help someone who had been beaten and broken the way Jesus was. Flogged, beaten, nailed to a cross and then stabbed at least a few inches deep. That’s a lot of damage. And once his heart stopped or he stopped breathing, there’s only so much time before he would have been beyond even our medical capabilities.

Muslims are unwilling to even contemplate the possibility that Jesus allowed himself to be executed because it would completely destroy their argument against Christianity.

 

[swariffin]

That’s a good point. Even with modern medical technology, I don’t think we could really help someone who had been beaten and broken the way Jesus was. Flogged, beaten, nailed to a cross and then stabbed at least a few inches deep. That’s a lot of damage. And once his heart stopped or he stopped breathing, there’s only so much time before he would have been beyond even our medical capabilities.

Muslims are unwilling to even contemplate the possibility that Jesus allowed himself to be executed because it would completely destroy their argument against Christianity.

There are two branches of thoughts brother. First, those who deny even the possibility of Jesus being crucified, and Two, those who admit the crucifiction of Jesus, but argued that Jesus survived the crucifiction.

 

[djconklin]

The pages after the quoted one include mention of secret medicinal concoctions known only in “our Order” that had great healing properties. Isn’t that convenient?

Josephus certainly didn’t know about this stuff. He found that some of his friends were crucified and was able to get them down, but despite their best efforts all of them died. No doctor is going to recommend that after you’ve gone through what Christ went through that you should lie on a cold slab of stone in a unvented chamber for about 32 hours without any medical care whatsoever.

 

[Reuben_J]

Josephus certainly didn’t know about this stuff. He found that some of his friends were crucified and was able to get them down, but despite their best efforts all of them died. No doctor is going to recommend that after you’ve gone through what Christ went through that you should lie on a cold slab of stone in a unvented chamber for about 32 hours without any medical care whatsoever.

Maybe it is a good thing to discuss this after all. The more you think about it the clearer it is that Jesus really died. If we cannot believe because we do not see, common sense and medical evidence will surely convince us.

For the non-believers out there - just think whether anyone could survive after being flogged then made to carry the wooden cross a couple of miles to Calvary, then hanged on the cross and suffered asphyxiation, then pierced with a spear on the left chest at the site of the heart, and finally made to lay on cold slab of stone in an airless chamber for 32 hours.

 

[djconklin]

Yep! The more you know the more obvious it is. Only the naive or unwary get caught in the trap of unbelief. They just don’t know how false the speculations are.