The Crucifixion

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Faith1960

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Why did God send us Jesus to die for our sins in the crucifixion rather than forgiving Adam and Eve’s sin? Or why did he create people that can sin rather than sinless people?
 
Well, for the second question. God did create sinless people. Adam and Eve were without sin when they were created, but because of their own free will, they rebelled against God by not follow His command, bringing sin into the world. And then I see your next question from this “Why did God give man free will?”

The answer to that question is that because if we are to love Him, He wants us to do so of our own choice. Would it really be selfless love if we were forced to love and obey God? Or does it mean more if we are able to choose God?

Think of it this way. Does it mean more to you if your spouse had to love you, or if your spouse chose to love you?

Your first question “Why didn’t God just forgive Adam and Eve?” is a tougher question, and I’ll let someone more adept with words and theology help with that one. But I will say that God required us to offer a sacrifice as reparation for our sins, but in His plan for our salvation, He sent His only Son, Jesus Christ, to die as a perfect sacrifice that would allow us to never have to offer any other sacrifice for sins and we need only to seek repentance and follow Christ (for us, by following the teachings of His Church).
 
Faith1960 said:
Why did God send us Jesus to die for our sins in the crucifixion rather than forgiving Adam and Eve’s sin?
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Because forgiveness alone would do nothing to help them. They were disobedient, and would continue to be disobedient, as would their descendants. He could keep forgiving, but they would just keep sinning. They needed God’s help to be obedient, because we can do nothing good apart from God.

God can “help” us be loving, because he is loving. He can “help” us be merciful, because he is merciful. But God cannot “help” us be obedient, because he is not obedient - it is not part of his nature. (Likewise, God could not “help” us be evil, even if he wanted to, because evil is not part of his nature.)

In the Incarnation, God assumed a human nature, and in the Crucifixion, incorporated obedience, because that is what the Crucifixion was - an act of obedience, and he cannot give what he does not possess.
Christ Jesus, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. [Philippians 2:6-8]
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The Incarnation and the Crucifixion was all about obedience.
 
In Genesis 2:16-17 God gave Adam the one law he was to live by. “You are to free to eat from any of the trees of the garden, except the tree of knowledge of good and evil. From that tree you shall not eat; the moment you eat from it you are surely doomed to die.”

After this, when Adam and Eve ate of the tree, what was God to say? “Well, forget that death part, now come here for a group hug.” How believeable would that be? It would be like telling a child to not touch something hot. If the child did, it would get burnt. Now, if that child is burnt, the parents can’t exactly step in and remove the pain. God couldn’t go back on his word.

So, the sin brought death and all the other bad stuff into the world. Think of any disease, crime or whatever else, and you will see it as God does. Down right filthy. He instituted the first sacrifice, which was to “cover over” the sins. But even those sins needed to be dealt with permanently. Thus we needed Jesus.

Jesus died that horrible death to pay the penalty for us and our sins. He could have just said, “Let’s just forget this mess. Blow up the planet or something.” But he didn’t do it. He couldn’t have done it. Would we believe that God has mercy and love on his side? His justice demanded a sacrifice. His love and mercy is shown in the fact that Jesus paid that price for ius.
 
Because man had to pay ffor his sins since he brought it into the world however God loved man too much to allow him to endure that kind of suffering, it’d be unjust to make a man just to have him suffer for his fellow man, and most of all man alone could not redeem himself no matter how much he suffered. Thus the person who came could not be just be a man. God Himself had to be able to forgive us. But a man had to suffer because man brought in sin. Thus the person who had to pay for sins price had to be God and man: not just man or God. God couldn’t just forgive Adam and Eve because man had to suffer and pay for his own sins. This is why Jesus came and why He is truly the God-man, the true sacrifice
 
Faith1960 said:
Why did God send us Jesus to die for our sins in the crucifixion rather than forgiving Adam and Eve’s sin? Or why did he create people that can sin rather than sinless people?
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The why’s of God point to His essential nature: Love.
I’m not sure He did not forgive them.
Sinless “People” are cats and dogs etc.
Seems to me that we have to choose God; therefore we have the option not to.
 
Faith1960 said:
Why did God send us Jesus to die for our sins in the crucifixion rather than forgiving Adam and Eve’s sin? Or why did he create people that can sin rather than sinless people?
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Hello Faith1960,
I’m coming to that in a moment.

What was the sin of Adam and Eve? Was it that they ate the fruit? Or was there something more serious? When they ate the fruit, they determined that the serpent was telling them the truth and that God was a liar. They didn’t believe God. God had warned them what would happen. They didn’t believe him. No faith. Adam and Eve were unable to pass on faith to their children. First person murdered was a shepherd. One of their first two sons was a murderer. Sin had taken over. God wasn’t being listened to. He wasn’t trusted.
Abraham had faith and the promise of Jesus was given to him. He believed God. In that he found righteousness with God.
500 years or so later, God gave the ten commandments to Moses who lead a clueless people. They thought God might like a golden calf. So they didn’t know God really. How can anyone have faith in a God they don’t know?
Mary had faith. She gave birth to Jesus as virgin.
Jesus being rejected was inevitable. He told the people that it was an evil generation because they wanted sign. If they had known God then they would have recognised Jesus. He promised them a sign. They were to hoist him up and kill him, then after three days he would rise again. They laughed at him and said he was balmy.
Jesus had said that his words are everlasting life. The new covenant is in Christ. He has sealed the new covenant with his blood. The covenant of love.
There is a painful message in Jesus. He is our greatest friend. We heals our wounds in his. We should be horrified. Sin isn’t such a good friend after all.
It’s through Jesus that we can get to know and love God. We can learn what God wants of us. Jesus said something. The greatest commandment is that we love god with our hearts minds and souls. He placed the loving our neighbour second to it. Then he elevated the second commandment by saying that whatever we do to someone we do to him too.

Sin is a consequence of freedom of will. Surrendering of freedom of will is proof of love.

Does it make more sense now?
 
Faith1960 said:
Why did God send us Jesus to die for our sins in the crucifixion rather than forgiving Adam and Eve’s sin? Or why did he create people that can sin rather than sinless people?
Click to expand...
Because people that can’tr sin are robots not people. The power, the immense and eternal power and Grace, come from choosing God. You have to be able to choose. Freewill is everything.

God didn’t “send Jesus.” God came Himself. Jesus is God. He came Himself because He loves us. He* took our sin*.
 
Faith1960 said:
Why did God send us Jesus to die for our sins in the crucifixion rather than forgiving Adam and Eve’s sin?
Click to expand...
Here’s how I’ve always understood the reasoning, even when I was an Anglican.
God is both merciful and just.
The sin of Adam and Eve was so great that a mere creature cannot really pay the price that divine justice demands. To turn away from God like that is such an abomination that only God Himself can pay the price … but God did not / can not sin. The sin is ours and a human must pay.
In His merciful love God became Man and, after teaching and preparing His Church, suffered and died for us.

(Imagine the immense suffering of a sinless Jesus taking on our filthy sins, in their entirety, knowing full well that His sacrifice would be mocked by millions of the people He was suffering for all down through the centuries.)
 
Faith1960 said:
Why did God send us Jesus to die for our sins in the crucifixion rather than forgiving Adam and Eve’s sin? Or why did he create people that can sin rather than sinless people?
Click to expand...
Well, we really can’t understand God’s Way, can we?

God knew. Straight off from the start what Hewas getting Himslef into when He decided to creat us. What trouble we would be. Yet we were and are worth it.

He always had a plan of redemption. You gotta imagine Lucifer, up there in heaven, already jealous of God, and the he finds out that God has this plan!!! for humanity!!! they aren’t even equal to angels. he sinned and look where it got him. Thrown out. yet these puny weak minded humans, they get to be redeemed. No fair!

Enter God into the garden. It is not a booming yelling “where are you?” but a soft voice, like a daddy who knows his kid has done wrong and is afraid , hiding., asks "where are you?"Dad already knows but the children need to come to Him and they do and are ashamed.

Dad says." ok. I have a plan and I am going to fix this. It will take time . because it needs to washed away with blood and to get that blood I will kill a part of my creation to save you and get that blood". Death entered into their world for the first time. God kills an animal for the first blood sacrfice and to provide food and protective clothing for His children to at least lighten their burden and sends them away.

The evil of satan needed to be washed away with more and more blood. You know the stories in scripture. The Last and Final Blood Covenant was the Cross. It transcends time. And covers all sin.

It is Written that Life is in the Blood. The Cross was the worst of the worst of deaths. And so much Blood came from Him.

It was and remains the most singular act of love ever done willingly . Why? Jesus told us why" no greater love has a man for his friend than to lay his life down for him"

we are that friend.
 
Faith1960 said:
Why did God send us Jesus to die for our sins in the crucifixion rather than forgiving Adam and Eve’s sin? Or why did he create people that can sin rather than sinless people?
Click to expand...
God is after the creation of beings who willingly choose the good, the Ultimate Good being Himself. Within this choice lies our integrity, our righteousness, our justice. And apparently this choice requires time-time spent in a world where good and evil are experienced-or known-so the choices set before us become defined: good and evil, life and death, God or no God.
 
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