The Cult Test by A. Orange

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The Cult Test by A. Orange
  1. The Guru is always right.
  2. No Exit.
  3. Cult-speak.
  4. Irrationality.
  5. Suspension of disbelief.
  6. The cult and its members are special.
  7. Induction of guilt, and the use of guilt to manipulate cult members.
  8. Surrender To The Cult.
  9. Giggly wonderfulness and starry-eyed faith.
    10 Personal testimonies of earlier converts.
  10. The cult is self-absorbed.
  11. Dual Purposes, Hidden Agendas, and Ulterior Motives.
  12. Aggressive Recruiting.
  13. Deceptive Recruiting.
  14. No Humor.
  15. Cloning – You become a clone of the cult leader or other elder cult members.
  16. The End Justifies The Means.
  17. Dishonesty, Deceit, Denial, Falsification, and Rewriting History.
  18. Different Levels of Truth.
  19. Newcomers can’t think right.
  20. The Cult is Money-Grubbing.
  21. Confession Sessions.
  22. An Impossible Superhuman Model of Perfection.
  23. Intrusiveness.
  24. Ideology Over Experience, Observation, and Logic
  25. Keep them unaware that there is an agenda to change them
  26. Thought-Stopping Language. Thought-terminating clichés and slogans.
  27. Mystical Manipulation
  28. Inconsistency. Contradictory Messages
  29. Front groups, masquerading recruiters, hidden promoters, and disguised propagandists
  30. Belief equals truth
  31. The guru criticizes everybody else, but nobody criticizes the guru.
  32. Dispensed truth and social definition of reality
  33. The Guru Is Extra-Special.
  34. Flexible, shifting morality
  35. Separatism
  36. Inability to tolerate criticism
  37. The cult takes over the individual’s decision-making process.
  38. You Owe The Group.
  39. We Have The Panacea.
  40. Progressive Indoctrination and Progressive Commitments
  41. New Identity – Redefinition of Self – Revision of Personal History
  42. Membership Rivalry
  43. Scapegoating of Excommunicated members
  44. Promised Powers or Knowledge
  45. Seeing Through Tinted Lenses
  46. You can’t make it without the cult.
  47. Devaluing the Outsider
  48. The cult wants to own you.
  49. They Make You Dependent On The Group.
  50. Demands For Compliance With The Group
  51. Newcomers Need Fixing.
  52. Use of the Cognitive Dissonance Technique.
  53. Grandiose existence. Bombastic, Grandiose Claims.
  54. The use of heavy-duty mind control and rapid conversion techniques.
  55. Threats of bodily harm or death to someone who leaves the cult.
  56. Threats of bodily harm or death to someone who criticizes the cult.
  57. Appropriation of members’ worldly wealth.
  58. Making cult members work long hours for free.
  59. Baptism for the Dead
orange-papers.org/orange-cult_q0.html
 
Seems reasonable to me, mostly. But that “baptism for the dead” thing at the end makes it appear as if he’s specifically targeting Mormons.
 
exoflare said:
Seems reasonable to me, mostly. But that “baptism for the dead” thing at the end makes it appear as if he’s specifically targeting Mormons.
Click to expand...
According to the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, “Tertullian believed that Paul referred to a custom of vicarious baptism (Res., 48c; Adv. Marc., 5.10). There is evidence that the early church knew such a practice. Epiphanius mentions a tradition that the custom obtained among the Cerinthians (Haer., 28 6). And Chrysostom states that it prevailed among the Marcionites.” All of these supporters were considered heretics by the early Church: Tertullian died outside the church as a Montanist; the Cerinthians were a Gnostic group that also denied that Jesus Christ was crucified; and the Marcionites were yet another Gnostic group who followed Marcion, who was also excommunicated from the Church before forming his own sect.

schism churches, by the Mandaeans of Iraq and Iran, by some of the Neo-Apostolic congregations of Europe, and by some Native American religions

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism_for_the_dead
 
dosdog said:
According to the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, “Tertullian believed that Paul referred to a custom of vicarious baptism (Res., 48c; Adv. Marc., 5.10). There is evidence that the early church knew such a practice. Epiphanius mentions a tradition that the custom obtained among the Cerinthians (Haer., 28 6). And Chrysostom states that it prevailed among the Marcionites.” All of these supporters were considered heretics by the early Church: Tertullian died outside the church as a Montanist; the Cerinthians were a Gnostic group that also denied that Jesus Christ was crucified; and the Marcionites were yet another Gnostic group who followed Marcion, who was also excommunicated from the Church before forming his own sect.

schism churches, by the Mandaeans of Iraq and Iran, by some of the Neo-Apostolic congregations of Europe, and by some Native American religions

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism_for_the_dead
Click to expand...
Interesting. I guess it’s true what they say… it’s always just the same old heresies revisited in this age.
 
dosdog said:
The Cult Test by A. Orange
  1. The Guru is always right.
  2. No Exit.
  3. Cult-speak.
  4. Irrationality.
  5. Suspension of disbelief.
  6. The cult and its members are special.
  7. Induction of guilt, and the use of guilt to manipulate cult members.
  8. Surrender To The Cult.
  9. Giggly wonderfulness and starry-eyed faith.
    10 Personal testimonies of earlier converts.
  10. The cult is self-absorbed.
  11. Dual Purposes, Hidden Agendas, and Ulterior Motives.
  12. Aggressive Recruiting.
  13. Deceptive Recruiting.
  14. No Humor.
  15. Cloning – You become a clone of the cult leader or other elder cult members.
  16. The End Justifies The Means.
  17. Dishonesty, Deceit, Denial, Falsification, and Rewriting History.
  18. Different Levels of Truth.
  19. Newcomers can’t think right.
  20. The Cult is Money-Grubbing.
  21. Confession Sessions.
  22. An Impossible Superhuman Model of Perfection.
  23. Intrusiveness.
  24. Ideology Over Experience, Observation, and Logic
  25. Keep them unaware that there is an agenda to change them
  26. Thought-Stopping Language. Thought-terminating clichés and slogans.
  27. Mystical Manipulation
  28. Inconsistency. Contradictory Messages
  29. Front groups, masquerading recruiters, hidden promoters, and disguised propagandists
  30. Belief equals truth
  31. The guru criticizes everybody else, but nobody criticizes the guru.
  32. Dispensed truth and social definition of reality
  33. The Guru Is Extra-Special.
  34. Flexible, shifting morality
  35. Separatism
  36. Inability to tolerate criticism
  37. The cult takes over the individual’s decision-making process.
  38. You Owe The Group.
  39. We Have The Panacea.
  40. Progressive Indoctrination and Progressive Commitments
  41. New Identity – Redefinition of Self – Revision of Personal History
  42. Membership Rivalry
  43. Scapegoating of Excommunicated members
  44. Promised Powers or Knowledge
  45. Seeing Through Tinted Lenses
  46. You can’t make it without the cult.
  47. Devaluing the Outsider
  48. The cult wants to own you.
  49. They Make You Dependent On The Group.
  50. Demands For Compliance With The Group
  51. Newcomers Need Fixing.
  52. Use of the Cognitive Dissonance Technique.
  53. Grandiose existence. Bombastic, Grandiose Claims.
  54. The use of heavy-duty mind control and rapid conversion techniques.
  55. Threats of bodily harm or death to someone who leaves the cult.
  56. Threats of bodily harm or death to someone who criticizes the cult.
  57. Appropriation of members’ worldly wealth.
  58. Making cult members work long hours for free.
  59. Baptism for the Dead
orange-papers.org/orange-cult_q0.html
Click to expand...
#'s 6, 8, 10, 19, 22, 23, 31, 34, and 35 can be to a certain extent be applied to the Catholic Church.
 
holy_wood said:
#'s 6, 8, 10, 19, 22, 23, 31, 34, and 35 can be to a certain extent be applied to the Catholic Church.
Click to expand...
Testing Prophetic Claims

Over the last 200 years a number of people have claimed to be religious prophets with special spiritual authority from God. These include Charles Taze Russell (Jehovah’s Witnesses), Ellen G. White (Seventh-day Adventists), Mary Baker Eddy (Christian Science), and Joseph Smith (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints). Each started an organization which claimed to be the one true Christian Church, each had unique teachings, and each appealed to the Bible to some degree as their basis for spiritual authority. Yet, each “prophet’s” teachings contradict those of the others.

irr.org/MIT/jsfalpro.html

Public revelation is binding on all Christians, but private revelation is binding only on those who receive it. The Catholic Church teaches that public revelation was completed, and therefore was concluded, with the death of the last apostle (Vatican II, Dei Verbum 4), but private revelation has continued.
catholic.com/library/private_revelation.asp

"Throughout the ages, there have been so-called ‘private’ revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ’s definitive revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history.

When the Church approves private revelations, she declares only that there is nothing in them contrary faith or good morals, and that they may be read without danger or even with profit; no obligation is thereby imposed on the faithful to believe them.

Since the Church herself has no providential protection in the area of private revelations, the bishop could be in error. We are not obliged to believe him, or even the Pope himself in such a case.

catholic-pages.com/bvm/private_revelations.asp
catholicculture.org/docs/most/getwork.cfm?worknum=162
catholicplanet.com/apparitions/discernment.htm

What kind of Spirit is at work when someone receives a vision, a revelation, or a more routine favor? To determine this is called the discernment of spirits. It is of great importance to find the right answer. It is evident that there can be three sources: good spirit, evil spirit, auto-suggestion

causes of error in revelations

Faulty interpretation of visions by the recipient- Joan of Arc in prison had a revelation that she would be delivered by a great victory–it was her martyrdom, which she did not suspect.

Human action may mingle with the divine action-St. Catherine Labouré foretold many events correctly, but failed on others

A true revelation may later be altered involuntarily by the recipient-This happens especially with intellectual locutions which need to be translated into words

Secretaries may alter without intending to do so-accuracy of the text is disputed in the works of Mary of Agreda

Causes of False Revelations

Pure bad faith, fakery

Overactive imagination.

Illusion in thinking one remembers things that never happened.

The Devil may give false visions or revelations-Magdalen of the Cross , it all came true–ecstasies, levitation, prophecies, simulated stigmata. At door of death she confessed. Exorcism was needed.

Predictions by falsifiers.-there was an epidemic of prophecy especially on “the great Pope and the great King” inspired by the 17th century commentary on the Apocalypse

degree of certainty or probability is possible?

When God so wills, OT prophets, for they furnished certain signs of their mission

we must work by exclusion-hypnotism, somnambulism, telepathy, thought-reading,

Inquiries to be made about the alleged recipient

What are the natural qualities or defects, physical, intellectual, and moral

what books he has read, what information he may have picked up from other more learned persons.

What virtues does the person have?

watch out for the work of satan–he may really promote good things for a while, provided that in the long run he gains.

Humility is a major key

catholic-pages.com/bvm/private_revelations.asp
 
holy_wood said:
#'s 6, 8, 10, 19, 22, 23, 31, 34, and 35 can be to a certain extent be applied to the Catholic Church.
Click to expand...
23 - Impossible superhuman model of perfection? Doesnt that apply to all of Christianity (after all, we are expected to model ourselves on Christ to a greater or lesser extent, no?)
 
dosdog said:
Testing Prophetic Claims
Over the last 200 years a number of people have claimed to be religious prophets with special spiritual authority from God. These include **Charles Taze Russell **(Jehovah’s Witnesses), Ellen G. White (Seventh-day Adventists), **Mary Baker Eddy **(Christian Science), and **Joseph Smith **(Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints). Each started an organization which claimed to be the one true Christian Church, each had unique teachings, and each appealed to the Bible to some degree as their basis for spiritual authority. Yet, each “prophet’s” teachings contradict those of the others.
Click to expand...
Hi

My question is what did the Catholic do to these religious Prophets?.

The Catholics are supposed to follow the commandments of the OTBible:

“If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder, and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, ‘Let us follow other gods’ (gods you have not known) ‘and let us worship them,’ you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. It is the Lord your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. That prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he preached rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery; he has tried to turn you from the way the Lord your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you” (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NIV).

I am interested in what the Catholics did to these claimants of Prophets.

Thanks

If a man fulfills the Criteria of a truthful Prophet or does not come under the ambit of Criteria of a false Prophet; then it would not be truthful to not accept one such claimant. I may mention here that to reject even one truthful ProphetMessenger is denying the institution of ProphethoodMessengership and tantamount to a rebellion against GodAllahYHWH and denial of all the ProphetsMessengers one believes in. In my view it would be a wicked thing to reject. any ProphetMessenger ancient, old or new belonging to any race, religion, colour and nation.
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi

My question is what did the Catholic do to these religious Prophets?.

The Catholics are supposed to follow the commandments of the OTBible:

“If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder, and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, ‘Let us follow other gods’ (gods you have not known) ‘and let us worship them,’ you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. It is the Lord your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. That prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he preached rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery; he has tried to turn you from the way the Lord your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you” (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NIV).

I am interested in what the Catholics did to these claimants of Prophets.

Thanks

If a man fulfills the Criteria of a truthful Prophet or does not come under the ambit of Criteria of a false Prophet; then it would not be truthful to not accept one such claimant. I may mention here that to reject even one truthful ProphetMessenger is denying the institution of ProphethoodMessengership and tantamount to a rebellion against GodAllahYHWH and denial of all the ProphetsMessengers one believes in. In my view it would be a wicked thing to reject. any ProphetMessenger ancient, old or new belonging to any race, religion, colour and nation.
Click to expand...
Obviously we don’t follow all the commandments of the OT. This is one.

How can you kill someone for prophesying? In many cases the truth or untruth of what they say will not become fully apparent until years after their death. You’d run the risk of killing the true along with the false - which I may remind you the Jews did!!!

But you can’t accept all prophets either - obviously only some can be true. Have there not been many who sought to predict the date upon which the world would end? Have they not all been false so far? Why believe such ones?

God doesn’t change. All religion and prophecy prior to the time of Christ led up to His coming in some way.

Since His coming - well, He is Son of God made man, what more needs to be said? You think anyone could do better as a prophet or speak more or better truth than God incarnate? If people will not listen to or belive God made flesh Himself then they are hopeless, certainly.

And so we have no further need of prophets after Christ. He gave us a complete message, to which no more needs to be added, although as an aid to our understanding He has graciously given us some messages (not new truth, but aids to understanding the same truth that He told us while He was alive) that we aren’t obligated to act upon.
 
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