The CUlture of Death, time to know what you are talking about

[ega]

For a long time I have aregued that the view that we have a moral, spritual and practical duty to have children is incorrect. I see no morality in having kids in a world where practicality resource distribution means millions are born to poverty and anguish…

Anyway, I ws in full swing when xxxxxx said “Oh, you’re a member of the Extinction group?”

“What?”

“It’s on the web.”

And so, to my horror…others have written a lot of my views up without my (name removed by moderator)ut.

So…

"VHEMT (pronounced vehement) is a movement not an organization. It’s a movement advanced by people who care about life on planet Earth. We’re not just a bunch of misanthropes and anti-social, Malthusian misfits, taking morbid delight whenever disaster strikes humans. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Voluntary human extinction is the humanitarian alternative to human disasters.

vhemt.org/aboutvhemt.htm

 

[Ani_Ibi]

I don’t understand what you are trying to say. Could you set it out point by point, please?

 

[ega]

Ani Ibi:

I don’t understand what you are trying to say. Could you set it out point by point, please?

I’ll add that to the list.

 

[CARose]

Ega,

I am so sorry to learn that you are so distraught by the challenges that face humanity and our planet that you would prefer to see humanity wiped from the face of the earth than to see another beautiful child brought into the world with the prospect of facing some degree of pain in their lifetime.

We are indeed not promised that our lives will be challenge free, nor is that even desireable. We often learn our richest lessons through pain. As Catholics, we are even taught that the pain Christ suffered is something we are all called to share in our path to salvation.
I know that when I was a teenager (a LONG time ago, I admit), we were in a cold war with Russia and we were in imminant danger of a ThermoNuclear war. To make matters worse, I was living in what was suggested to be one of the top targets in the US. My faith in God and his infinite mercy was not very strong and the fear of the future weighed heavily on me.

In that mindset, I also believed that it was irresponsible to bring children into a world that could not assure that they would have a decent opportunity to live in dignity. I also worried about the lack of worldwide resources to support the existing and growing population. I was concerned that humanity was placing undue pressure on the ecosystems of the world and that we were creating the demise of life on the planet.

I have since come to appreciate that much of what I had been taught, which led to such despair were lies. After completing my degree in BioChemistry and a few years of a career under my belt, I moved out of the area where I had been living to a mountain community and involved myself in a small town. I started teaching myself about what it really means to be human and learned about some of the environmental issues I’d been taught in my high school classes.

It was a long journey, but I must say, I have come to appreciate that people, rather than being a liability, are one of the most precious resources on the planet. We are all of infinite value and this includes the children you have not yet had.

As a parent, I can tell you, that the love you feel for your unborn children, currently expressing itself in the form of fear for their unknown future, will blossom into something rich, wonderful and trusting if you open yourself to the beauty of Christ.

I will pray for you that you see the love that underlies the truths as taught by the Catholic Church,

CARose

 

[E.E.N.S]

How distasteful…

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

“Anonymous Volunteer from New Zealand.
Her friend has a matching tattoo, both placed over the place where no baby will ever grow.”

 

[CarolAnnSFO]

E.E.N.S.:

How distasteful…

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

“Anonymous Volunteer from New Zealand.
Her friend has a matching tattoo, both placed over the place where no baby will ever grow.”

Yikes. If that tattoo is real, and not a decal, or a photoshopped image, than that web site isn’t a joke? :bigyikes:

 

[CARose]

How sad

 

[Della]

Actually, in Western countries the population has not only peaked, it is decreasing so rapidly that governments are now encouraging couples to have children once again. And in China, so many baby girls have been slaughtered either through abortion or after they were born (yes, you read that right) that there are no eligible females of child bearing age for the male majority to marry, so they are marrying their sisters and daughters.

This is the reality of the unnecessary “population control” programs instituted by people like you who used phantom scare tactics to get the human race to kill itself off just so you wouldn’t have to bother having and caring for children.

Hey, if you don’t want kids, fine, don’t have them, but do stop telling the rest of us that we will killing the planet if we have them because it just isn’t true. Besides, think of the fact that it will be OUR children who will inherit the earth with our values because we are the only ones having children whom we are teaching that human life is sacred and desirable. You will lose in the end due to your own philosophy, friend.

 

[ega]

CARose:

Ega,

I am so sorry to learn that you are so distraught by the challenges that face humanity and our planet that you would prefer to see humanity wiped from the face of the earth than to see another beautiful child brought into the world with the prospect of facing some degree of pain in their lifetime.

I find spiders, scorpions, snakes, tigers, bears, poppies, dogs, squid, fish, oaks, and many things beautiful.

Should all perish? Are you not ‘distraught’ at the fate of the creatures that are extinct by our actions and will become extinct by our actions?

I have to assume you are bing ironic or humorous. You cannot possibly weight up all of the earth against the birth of a ‘beautiful’ child. A child at least has a chance, but what of the lesser intellects, both human and bestial that you have so monstrously dismissed?

“We are indeed not promised that our lives will be challenge free, nor is that even desireable. We often learn our richest lessons through pain. As Catholics, we are even taught that the pain Christ suffered is something we are all called to share in our path to salvation.”

Are, excuses to torture eachother and lesser beings. I love religious ‘reasoning’.

What do you think God promised animals and plants? “A life of perpetual fear, pressure and extermination in mine name, by my people.”

CARose:

I know that when I was a teenager (a LONG time ago, I admit), we were in a cold war with Russia and we were in imminant danger of a ThermoNuclear war. To make matters worse, I was living in what was suggested to be one of the top targets in the US. My faith in God and his infinite mercy was not very strong and the fear of the future weighed heavily on me.

Argument for the article, I think you’ll find.

CARose:

In that mindset, I also believed that it was irresponsible to bring children into a world that could not assure that they would have a decent opportunity to live in dignity. I also worried about the lack of worldwide resources to support the existing and growing population. I was concerned that humanity was placing undue pressure on the ecosystems of the world and that we were creating the demise of life on the planet.

And then you forgot.

But you did not go macro in your reasoning. Kept it small and human, individual. Didnt think about the big picture. And so became part of the problem.

CARose:

I have since come to appreciate that much of what I had been taught, which led to such despair were lies.

The right of the unborn to stay that way was never a consideration to anyone. I doubt you can even imagine it.

CARose:

It was a long journey, but I must say, I have come to appreciate that people, rather than being a liability, are one of the most precious resources on the planet.

The biggest victims dont have a voice and are dismissed by your faith as things without immortal souls and who’s suffering is secondary.

Sounds like special pleading to me. The pain of the planet is clear and all you can think is ‘we are special’. Greeat! I have an IQ of 152 on a good day, does that mean I have the right to rape?

CARose:

As a parent, I can tell you, that the love you feel for your unborn children,

Personal gratification is no excuse.

CARose:

I will pray for you that you see the love that underlies the truths as taught by the Catholic Church,

CARose

Lets pray together for objective substantial improvement…and the acceptance of condoms and other contraceptives as the right and moral way forward.

 

[E.E.N.S]

ega:

You cannot possibly weight up all of the earth against the birth of a ‘beautiful’ child…

One soul is worth more than not only more than the whole world, but the whole of creation combined!

ega:

Lets pray together for…and the acceptance of condoms and other contraceptives as the right and moral way forward.

I will pray for a greater acceptance of morality worldwide (which does NOT include the use of condoms or other contraceptives), and a greater love of God and human dignity.

 

[ega]

Della:

Actually, in Western countries the population has not only peaked, it is decreasing so rapidly that governments are now encouraging couples to have children once again.

Great isnt it! I reckon 8 million people in the UK is about the right number…or less.

Oh, and isnt it interesting that people, given the choice, dont want bunny rabbit status?

Della:

And in China, so many baby girls have been slaughtered either through abortion or after they were born (yes, you read that right) that there are no eligible females of child bearing age for the male majority to marry, so they are marrying their sisters and daughters.

Just goes to show how cultural values can turn out counter productive, unintelligent and awful.

Oh, and check your maths, there are on average 116 boys born for ever 100 girls, and in some areas 150 boys. There are simply not enoug girls for men to end up “marrying their sisters and daughters”, if they do that they are doing it because culturally the continuation of a name is more important that genetic viabiity.

The gene pool is a resource. You prove my point, though unintentionally. Other resources are being consumed too at unhealthy rates.

Be moral, use a condom.

Della:

instituted by people like you who used phantom scare tactics to get the human race to kill itself off just so you wouldn’t have to bother having and caring for children.

You clearly understand your culpability in this and regret that your conscience was not able to divine the moral course.

Della:

Hey, if you don’t want kids, fine, don’t have them, but do stop telling the rest of us that we will killing the planet if we have them because it just isn’t true.

Besides, think of the fact that it will be OUR children who will inherit the earth with our values because we are the only ones having children whom we are teaching that human life is sacred and desirable. You will lose in the end due to your own philosophy, friend.

Hey, bad news, you are out numbered by buhdists, you will be outnumbered by muslims. You yourself not the falling birthrate…so I conclude bluster and disjointed analysis.

Your own post undermines your own arguments.

 

[ega]

E.E.N.S.:

How distasteful…

Hey! I’m tatooed. A lovely symbol of capricorn surrounded by a blue sun. And my initials in black on my neck. And instructions for use on my tummy…

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

ega:

Hey! I’m tatooed. A lovely symbol of capricorn surrounded by a blue sun. And my initials in black on my neck. And instructions for use on my tummy…

You said this!"Oh, and isnt it interesting that people, given the choice, dont want bunny rabbit status?"That is uncalled for and rude! It is interesting you bring animals in the equation yet you propose human get “fixed” like animals!

 

[E.E.N.S]

ega:

Hey! I’m tatooed. A lovely symbol of capricorn surrounded by a blue sun. And my initials in black on my neck. And instructions for use on my tummy…

I have a tattoo as well…that was not the reason for the comment.

 

[Della]

ega:

Great isnt it! I reckon 8 million people in the UK is about the right number…or less.

Oh, and isnt it interesting that people, given the choice, dont want bunny rabbit status?

Just goes to show how cultural values can turn out counter productive, unintelligent and awful.

Oh, and check your maths, there are on average 116 boys born for ever 100 girls, and in some areas 150 boys. There are simply not enoug girls for men to end up “marrying their sisters and daughters”, if they do that they are doing it because culturally the continuation of a name is more important that genetic viabiity.

The gene pool is a resource. You prove my point, though unintentionally. Other resources are being consumed too at unhealthy rates.

Be moral, use a condom.

You clearly understand your culpability in this and regret that your conscience was not able to divine the moral course.

Della:

Hey, if you don’t want kids, fine, don’t have them, but do stop telling the rest of us that we will killing the planet if we have them because it just isn’t true.

You don’t have arguments, you only have abuse to offer.
As Col. Potter said so often to Klinger’s twisted attempts at getting out of his world, “Horse hockey!” And you can take that to the rabbit bank.

 

[Mom_of_one]

ega:

I find spiders, scorpions, snakes, tigers, bears, poppies, dogs, squid, fish, oaks, and many things beautiful.
Um, so do I. Except cockroaches. Yuck!

Should all perish? Are you not ‘distraught’ at the fate of the creatures that are extinct by our actions and will become extinct by our actions? Wait. I saw a bear eat a fish. Just plucked the fish right out of the water and ate it for lunch. Does that mean I need to get rid of the bears? After all, it is commiting an action that potentially could cause fish to become extinct.

I have to assume you are bing ironic or humorous. You cannot possibly weight up all of the earth against the birth of a ‘beautiful’ child. A child at least has a chance, but what of the lesser intellects, both human and bestial that you have so monstrously dismissed?

Are, excuses to torture eachother and lesser beings. I love religious ‘reasoning’.

What do you think God promised animals and plants? “A life of perpetual fear, pressure and extermination in mine name, by my people.” Well, what about predatory animals? Animals don’t live in fear of them?

Sounds like special pleading to me. The pain of the planet is clear and all you can think is ‘we are special’. Greeat! I have an IQ of 152 on a good day, does that mean I have the right to rape?
Gee, I have a very high IQ, too. Does that mean I have the right to be as condesending to others as you sound?

Personal gratification is no excuse. That’s BS. There is very little personal gratification in waking up every 2 or 3 hours to feed the baby. None in taking them to the doctor’s and watching them scream when they get shots. None in finding out that there something wrong and that they need serious treatment. Love for a child is not about personal gratification!

Lets pray together for objective substantial improvement…and the acceptance of condoms and other contraceptives as the right and moral way forward Nope. Serious sin. /QUOTE]

 

[Maranatha]

The Catholic Church has struggled against the forces of Death since its inception. Some of the more prominent:

Gnosticism
A collective name for a large number of greatly-varying and pantheistic-idealistic sects, which flourished from some time before the Christian Era down to the fifth century, and which, while borrowing the phraseology and some of the tenets of the chief religions of the day, and especially of Christianity, held matter to be a deterioration of spirit, and the whole universe a depravation of the Deity, and taught the ultimate end of all being to be the overcoming of the grossness of matter and the return to the Parent-Spirit, which return they held to be inaugurated and facilitated by the appearance of some God-sent Saviour.
…
This utter pessimism, bemoaning the existence of the whole universe as a corruption and a calamity, with a feverish craving to be freed from the body by death and a mad hope that, if we only knew, we could by some mystic words undo the cursed spell of this existence – this is the foundation of all Gnostic thought.

Albigenses
A neo-Manichæan sect that flourished in southern France in the twelfth and thirteenth centuries
…
The dualism of the Albigenses was also the basis of their moral teaching. Man, they taught, is a living contradiction. Hence, the liberation of the soul from its captivity in the body is the true end of our being. To attain this, suicide is commendable; it was customary among them in the form of the endura (starvation). The extinction of bodily life on the largest scale consistent with human existence is also a perfect aim.

I see

 

[Vanny]

Children are our future-no children, no future.
In an aging population, where no children are born- there is an increasing number of elderly-this puts a huge strain on the younger worker.
Even now, much more of of a younger workers taxes, ect go to pay for old age pensions and programs for the elderly. This will only get worse oif people stopped having children
You see, it is our children who will care for you in your old age, pay your Social Security pension, wheel you in your wheelchair in the nursing home.
YOu need young poeple to fill jobs, to be doctors, nurses, police, firefighters, scientists,teachers,
Young people are the vitality of a civilization.
Of course, older people have much value, too, but I think the real problem we will be facing soon is depopulation- not the other way around.
My children have enriched my life in ways I could never imagined before I had children.
You can’t be selfish when you have a child- you have to think beyond yourself-You have to care for the needs of another, at least if you want to raise them right- to be caring ,responsible, kind adults.
Having a child has shown me God’s love-the unconditional kind of love he has for each one of us- even members of VHMT>
Of course, I’m sure this won’t convince anyone who is dead set against having children- and I always say- don’t have them if you don’t want them.
But I don’t think those who are against ANYONE having children really realize the value children and young people bring to our society.
I think there are deifinetly ways to care for the earth and great rid of pollution that do not prevent people from being parents.
And you never know- your child might be the one who changes the world.

 

[Mom_of_one]

ega:

I find spiders, scorpions, snakes, tigers, bears, poppies, dogs, squid, fish, oaks, and many things beautiful.

Should all perish? Are you not ‘distraught’ at the fate of the creatures that are extinct by our actions and will become extinct by our actions? Shame on the bears then, for eating fish. After all, it may potentially make the fish become extinct.

Sounds like special pleading to me. The pain of the planet is clear and all you can think is ‘we are special’. Greeat! I have an IQ of 152 on a good day, does that mean I have the right to rape? Gee, I have a very high IQ all the time, does that mean I have the right ot sound as condesending as you do?

Personal gratification is no excuse. Personal gratifiaction for having children? That goes right out the window with every 2am and 5am feeding. That sounds like having children is selfish! No selfishness when your heart is involved and the potential to have your heart ripped to pieces.
My son said today that he’s going to be the parent and that means that he could do whatever he wanted. He was informed that he got to do much less of what he wanted as a parent. Of course, that doesn’t mean that you don’t love and enjoy them, but there’s much work to be done. Nope, having children is not for the faint of heart.

 

[ega]

Della:

ega:

You don’t have arguments, you only have abuse to offer.

Well, Della, check out…

nstituted by people like you who used phantom scare tactics to get the human race to kill itself off just so you wouldn’t have to bother having and caring for children.

That wasnt abusive at all was it? No, fair, balanced comment without bile, insult, implication or any other leading comments.

Della:

ega:

You don’t have arguments, you only have abuse to offer.

Again, i have to assume irony or humour.