The Dalai Lama Continues to Push Secular Ethics Over Buddhism

[frobert]

The Dalai Lama Continues to Push Secular Ethics Over Buddhism

Last week the Tibetan spiritual leader offered talks to three groups of students at his residence in Dharamsala, India. The students came from the U.S., Canada, and 25 students from the Tong Len [Tibetan for ‘giving and taking’] charitable trust based in North India.

Rather than pushing traditional Tibetan teachings or verbatim scripture, the Dalai Lama urged students to pursue peace in the coming century. He emphasized the importance of cultivating reason and the basic human capacity for compassion in order to do this…

The knowledge and the practice of religion has of course been helpful, but today this is no longer enough, as examples from all over the world show more and more clearly. This is true of all religions, including Christianity and Buddhism. Wars have been waged in the name of religion, “holy wars” even. Religions have been and still are frequently intolerant.

This is why I say that in the 21st century we need a new ethic that transcends all religions. Far more crucial than religion is our elementary human spirituality. It’s a predisposition towards love, kindness and affection that we all have within us, whatever religion we belong to. In my view, people can do without religion, but they cannot do without inner values, without ethics.

Read more…

 

[meltzerboy]

The Dalai Lama Continues to Push Secular Ethics Over Buddhism

Last week the Tibetan spiritual leader offered talks to three groups of students at his residence in Dharamsala, India. The students came from the U.S., Canada, and 25 students from the Tong Len [Tibetan for ‘giving and taking’] charitable trust based in North India.

Rather than pushing traditional Tibetan teachings or verbatim scripture, the Dalai Lama urged students to pursue peace in the coming century. He emphasized the importance of cultivating reason and the basic human capacity for compassion in order to do this…

The knowledge and the practice of religion has of course been helpful, but today this is no longer enough, as examples from all over the world show more and more clearly. This is true of all religions, including Christianity and Buddhism. Wars have been waged in the name of religion, “holy wars” even. Religions have been and still are frequently intolerant.

This is why I say that in the 21st century we need a new ethic that transcends all religions. Far more crucial than religion is our elementary human spirituality. It’s a predisposition towards love, kindness and affection that we all have within us, whatever religion we belong to. In my view, people can do without religion, but they cannot do without inner values, without ethics.

Read more…

I agree in part with what the Dalai Lama is teaching here. However, wouldn’t it at the same time be a good thing to show how these “inner values” and “ethics,” “reason” and “compassion” are linked to religious teachings from all around the world rather than claiming they form a “new ethic”? Otherwise, religion will be thought of only in terms of promoting intolerance and violence, as well as irrelevant to the modern world altogether. Is the latter the Dalai Lama’s intention? I hope not.

 

[jlhargus]

The Dalai Lama Continues to Push Secular Ethics Over Buddhism

Last week the Tibetan spiritual leader offered talks to three groups of students at his residence in Dharamsala, India. The students came from the U.S., Canada, and 25 students from the Tong Len [Tibetan for ‘giving and taking’] charitable trust based in North India.

Rather than pushing traditional Tibetan teachings or verbatim scripture, the Dalai Lama urged students to pursue peace in the coming century. He emphasized the importance of cultivating reason and the basic human capacity for compassion in order to do this…

The knowledge and the practice of religion has of course been helpful, but today this is no longer enough, as examples from all over the world show more and more clearly. This is true of all religions, including Christianity and Buddhism. Wars have been waged in the name of religion, “holy wars” even. Religions have been and still are frequently intolerant.

This is why I say that in the 21st century we need a new ethic that transcends all religions. Far more crucial than religion is our elementary human spirituality. It’s a predisposition towards love, kindness and affection that we all have within us, whatever religion we belong to. In my view, people can do without religion, but they cannot do without inner values, without ethics.

Read more…

Isn’t that what secularist are trying to accomplish today? Do away with religion and replace it their inner values and ethics removing God totally.

Jms1:26 And if any man think himself to be religious, not bridling his tongue, but deceiving his own heart, this man’s religion is vain. 27 Religion clean and undefiled before God and the Father, is this: to visit the fatherless and widows in their tribulation: and to keep one’s self unspotted from this world.

92

 

[joeybaggz]

This is why I say that in the 21st century we need a new ethic that transcends all religions. F

We already have one, it’s called “the Golden Rule”

Just another anti-theist trying to do away with organized religion. Instead of a post, just play Imagine by John Lennon … he’s already said it all, and nobody listened.

Shalom

 

[Le_Bonvivant]

I don’t think we need less organised religion, quite on the contrary, we need more of it.

Most problems we have in our western societies these days would disappear if people returned to the church.

I think so many young peoples turn to drugs, crime, pursue material wealth at all costs because they have lost faith, nothing to live for. We’re defenitly not ready for something that would trancend religion as we know it. Nor will it ever be necessary; the church God has given us is more than enough.

 

[TK421]

I agree in part with what the Dalai Lama is teaching here. However, wouldn’t it at the same time be a good thing to show how these “inner values” and “ethics,” “reason” and “compassion” are linked to religious teachings from all around the world rather than claiming they form a “new ethic”? Otherwise, religion will be thought of only in terms of promoting intolerance and violence, as well as irrelevant to the modern world altogether. Is the latter the Dalai Lama’s intention? I hope not.

I agree.

Values that promoted solidarity & peace in the world in recorded history, since Zoroastrianism onward, have been rooted & motivated through a spiritual/religious worldview and not a utilitarian materialistic one, which in its recent track record in the 20th century is responsible for the greatest lose of life in human history. If religion is only redundantly encouraging something that can be replicated in secularism, then that means religion is obsolete.

Of course, I’m not assuming what the Dalai Lama’s view is, since I’m not well-informed on it.

 

[Mystic_Banana]

*Religion * the cause for conflict?

I think the Dalai Lama should pray a little more and stop listening to our rather materialistic media. A quick glance at the global mass murder perpetrated in the name of each and every atheistic ideology which dominated the 20th Century (and still being perpetrated on terrifying scales today in many cases) put everything, including even Islamic state, into perspective

However terrible the violence perpetrated in the name of religion, the horrors perpetrated in the name of atheistic ideologies (including those underpinning many western ‘interventions’ today) are those which are truly terrifying,

That the Dalai has the wool pulled over his eyes in this respect makes me glad I’m not a Buddhist! IBuddhism is the most popular religion amongst all the atheists I know - never a good sign!

Heck, is he not even paying attention to the plight of his own people? It’s not religious ideology which is driving Chinas persecution of Tibet… it’s an anti-theistic atheism. Talk about deluded

 

[frobert]

Thanks to all for the feedback.

Like the Dalai Lama I don’t believe there is any argument against the pursuit of peace in the world.

…the Dalai Lama urged students to pursue peace in the coming century. He emphasized the importance of cultivating reason and the basic human capacity for compassion in order to do this.

Shouldn’t this cultivation come from the secular as well as religion?

 

[TK421]

Shouldn’t this cultivation come from the secular as well as religion?

In the sense that secular institutions can cooperate with religion, since it has always been the secular authorities that possess the ability to govern and enforce law. The secular authorities, however, can be corrupted towards evil purposes. In the Apocalypse of St John, we see the beasts that bring destruction on Earth: one is the corruption of State (the one bearing on its head the many crowns), such as the severe persecution it brought to the early Church, and the injustices that have occurred since then.

Human beings universally possess empathy regardless of religion or lack of religion, but they also universally possess anger, prejudice, lust, greed, and even malevolence. In my opinion, there’s no need to theorycraft a world without religion because we’ve already seen several examples of it and it is a manifestation of hell on Earth.

 

[Dcn_Terry]

We already have one, it’s called “the Golden Rule”

Just another anti-theist trying to do away with organized religion. Instead of a post, just play Imagine by John Lennon … he’s already said it all, and nobody listened.

Shalom

Fun fact, the “Golden Rule” can be found in the book of Tobit:

“Do to no one what you yourself dislike. Give to the hungry some of your bread, and to the naked some of your clothing. Seek counsel from every wise man. At all times bless the Lord God, and ask him to make your paths straight and to grant success to all your endeavors.” — Tobit 4:15-19

 

[Stylteralmaldo]

…Rather than pushing traditional Tibetan teachings or verbatim scripture, the Dalai Lama urged students to pursue peace in the coming century…

So rather than pursuing the opposite of peace found in Tibetan Buddhism (which is what “rather than” implies)…

 

[Mystic_Banana]

So rather than pursuing the opposite of peace found in Tibetan Buddhism (which is what “rather than” implies)…

 

[ChineseCatholic]

The Dalai Lama Continues to Push Secular Ethics Over Buddhism

Last week the Tibetan spiritual leader offered talks to three groups of students at his residence in Dharamsala, India. The students came from the U.S., Canada, and 25 students from the Tong Len [Tibetan for ‘giving and taking’] charitable trust based in North India.

Rather than pushing traditional Tibetan teachings or verbatim scripture, the Dalai Lama urged students to pursue peace in the coming century. He emphasized the importance of cultivating reason and the basic human capacity for compassion in order to do this…

The knowledge and the practice of religion has of course been helpful, but today this is no longer enough, as examples from all over the world show more and more clearly. This is true of all religions, including Christianity and Buddhism. Wars have been waged in the name of religion, “holy wars” even. Religions have been and still are frequently intolerant.

This is why I say that in the 21st century we need a new ethic that transcends all religions. Far more crucial than religion is our elementary human spirituality. It’s a predisposition towards love, kindness and affection that we all have within us, whatever religion we belong to. In my view, people can do without religion, but they cannot do without inner values, without ethics.

Read more…

Its not as crazy as it sounds from his perspective. No - really.

All the Dharmic Religions (the ones where Reincarnation is a Mechanic of the Universe), don’t have the pressing concern that the Abrahamic faiths have regarding getting people to act in a certain manner.

With a viewpoint like that, that the Un-Enlightened can continual screw up till they get it right, the Dalai Lama has to consider what creating the correct environment to bring about Enlightenment might entail.

The Proselytization method favored by Christianity and Islam, which can vary from a quiet conversation to kicking down a door and thumping the Bible/Qur’an, isn’t something particularly suited to the current iteration of Tibetan Buddhism.

So here’s this man of faith, staring out on a secularist tide of people who somewhat like him and his religion. Do they like his personal story? Yes. Do they find Tibetan Buddhism to be exotic and peaceful? Yes.

Will they even absorb some fraction of an element of his religion (and completely contort it out of context to suit their bourgeoisie lifestyle) in order to feel “spiritual”? Sure.

(Very little known fact - he’s actually “complained” about this in his round about manner. )

But the fact remains - he’s still stuck with a bunch of Modernist Secularists who while they want to play “dress up” with the elements of his religion (or Hinduism, or Daoism, or hell… Wicca, Kabbalistic Judaism, esoteric Christian Mysticism stripped of the “backward/primitive (translation: The Hard Parts)” elements…) aren’t going to be too receptive to anything profound.

So what’s a Good Buddhist supposed to do?

He emphasized the importance of cultivating reason and the basic human capacity for compassion in order to do this

He gives them the base minimal to reach for.

Because if you can’t get something like “Compassion” correct… how the heck are they supposed to believe or follow any of their teachings on Samsara or pratityasamutpada?

From the Tibetan Buddhist perspectives, these people (and heck us in their minds), are essentially spinning their wheels are so wrapped up and entrenched in the world… that they aren’t going to reach too hard for Liberation.

So maybe this Lifetime isn’t about achieving Enlightenment, maybe they settle for just making good people…which will have Karmic effects and put them in a better position the next time the Merry-Go-Round takes a turn.

Remember - for the Dharmic Faiths - there is always time.

We on the other hand, are not afforded such luxuries…

 

[frobert]

Thanks all for the good feedback. Here is an update:

The Dalai Lama Continues to Push Secular Ethics Over Buddhism

The Dalai Lama has long been an active advocate for moving beyond traditional values that no longer fit the needs of society. He explored Western culture with great interest even while living in Tibet in his youth and has been active in public dialogues with leading scientists, historians, activists, and others for decades. Two of his recent books have sought to push ethics beyond “this or that religious tradition” and into broader human consciousness, Ethics for the New Millennium (2001) and Beyond Religion: Ethics for a Whole World (2012).

In a discussion with a UK magazine last year, the Dalai Lama went so far as to say that “Ethics is more important than religion. We don’t arrive in this world as members of a particular religion. But ethics is innate.” He continued, “Yesterday’s ideas will get us nowhere. Especially for children, tomorrow’s adults, ethics is more important than religion.” Clarifying this, he said:.

 

[rossum]

So what’s a Good Buddhist supposed to do?

He emphasized the importance of cultivating reason and the basic human capacity for compassion in order to do this

Indeed. Compassion and Wisdom are basic elements of Mahayana Buddhism.

It is necessary to teach people starting from where they are, and in Buddhist terms starting with reason and compassion is a good place to begin for a Western audience. You do not start RCIA classes with an in-depth study of the Summa Theologica.

Remember - for the Dharmic Faiths - there is always time.

Yes. It gives a different perspective to many things.

rossum

 

[Mystic_Banana]

Especially for children, tomorrow’s adults, ethics is more important than religion.” .[/INDENT]

Ethics are channeled by ideology, and western culture aggressively denies true ethics by the dominant ideology of the day, the hypocrisy which is big brother relativism.

True ethics are cultivated by true religion. It’s most of what religion is for. Secular relativism saturates western culture, and it aggressively subverts ethics with a big brother materialistic travesty of freedom. The road to ethical behaviour is guided by religion. I just wish I’d never taken the detour, because it seems its not an easy way back

 

[frobert]

True ethics are cultivated by true religion.

If Catholics believes that Catholicism is the only true religion then, based on your statement, over 6 billion people are not able to cultivate “true ethics.”

You may wish to reconsider what the Dalai Lama said:

We don’t arrive in this world as members of a particular religion. But ethics is innate.”

Isn’t this similar to what Aquinas has said about natural law?

…the Dalai Lama urged students to pursue peace in the coming century. He emphasized the importance of cultivating reason and the basic human capacity for compassion in order to do this.

Are you denying that we do not have reason and capacity for compassion?

 

[Mystic_Banana]

If Catholics believes that Catholicism is the only true religion then, based on your statement, over 6 billion people are not able to cultivate “true ethics.”

Actually, I think there’s a more complex understanding of what constitutes “the Church” than you may expect. :hypno:,

I was using a more generalized scope than my byline would infer

You may wish to reconsider what the Dalai Lama said:
Isn’t this similar to what Aquinas has said about natural law?

Are you denying that we do not have reason and capacity for compassion?

No, but are you denying that culture has an influence upon those who are part of it? That which worldview we accept influences our ethical standpoint? The Dalai Lamas assertions ignore that. I believe that modern culture is trying very hard to standardize ethics based on a dishonest and perverted (and ethically anti-naturalistic) ideology. I assert that in ignoring that, the Dalai Lama is falling for the lie underpinning that standardization, which corrupts an honest interpretation of ethics. You can embrace tolerance and compassion to the point where you tolerate and compass destructive behaviour

 

[frobert]

Actually, I think there’s a more complex understanding of what constitutes “the Church” than you may expect. :hypno:,

I was using a more generalized scope than my byline would infer

No, but are you denying that culture has an influence upon those who are part of it? That which worldview we accept influences our ethical standpoint? The Dalai Lamas assertions ignore that. I believe that modern culture is trying very hard to standardize ethics based on a dishonest and perverted (and ethically anti-naturalistic) ideology. I assert that in ignoring that, the Dalai Lama is falling for the lie underpinning that standardization, which corrupts an honest interpretation of ethics. You can embrace tolerance and compassion to the point where you tolerate and compass destructive behaviour

Thank you for the feedback.

It appears that you are making a lot of assumptions:

1. 
   *]That you have a better understanding of of the what constitutes the church than I do. Perhaps but perhaps not but that would be another topic.
   
   *]That I and others would understand the generalizations of your byline.
   You are right, what are they?
   
   Based solely on your belief:
   *]That the Dalai Lama and I are denying the cultural influence.
   
   *]That reason and compassion are not understood in some other cultures.
   
   *]That what the Dalai Lama is suggestion is cultural related.
   
   *]That the Dalai Lama is falling for a lie.
   
   *]That the Dalai Lama (and by inference non-Catholics)can not have an honest interpretations of ethics
   *]That the Dalai Lama suggestions can be boiled down to embracing tolerance and compassion.
   He does mention tolerance once (actually, intolerance)once. Can you deny “Religions have been and still are frequently intolerant.”? BTW I do agree that some people tale tolerance to absurd extremes.
   
   The underlying factor in all your assumptions point directly to what I surmised in a previous post, namely, a belief that "over 6 billion people are not able to cultivate "true ethics."

 

[Mystic_Banana]

Thank you for the feedback.

It appears that you are making a lot of assumptions:

1. 
   *]That you have a better understanding of of the what constitutes the church than I do. Perhaps but perhaps not but that would be another topic.
   
   *]That I and others would understand the generalizations of your byline.
   You are right, what are they?
   
   Based solely on your belief:
   *]That the Dalai Lama and I are denying the cultural influence.
   
   *]That reason and compassion are not understood in some other cultures.
   
   *]That what the Dalai Lama is suggestion is cultural related.
   
   *]That the Dalai Lama is falling for a lie.
   
   *]That the Dalai Lama (and by inference non-Catholics)can not have an honest interpretations of ethics
   *]That the Dalai Lama suggestions can be boiled down to embracing tolerance and compassion.
   He does mention tolerance once (actually, intolerance)once. Can you deny “Religions have been and still are frequently intolerant.”? BTW I do agree that some people tale tolerance to absurd extremes.
   
   The underlying factor in all your assumptions point directly to what I surmised in a previous post, namely, a belief that "over 6 billion people are not able to cultivate "true ethics."

1. 
   Well, maybe you understand what I’m trying to say more than me! :hypno: I think I’'ll reinterpret myself… after all, I *do * think the realization of true ethics is far harder than most people consider. And we *are * getting further away from it on a cultural level. And the Dalai Lama is encouraging that movement… just another golden calf…
   
   And I’m not going to change my byline just because you keep dragging it labouriously into the argument! Mind you, maybe it is right. Humanity falls so easily away from God…
   
   And, who am I to say I have a better interpretation of what I’m trying to say than you??? You’ve convinced me!