The Dalai Lama; One of the most evil men on Earth?

[Pope_Noah_I]

I’m going to see the Dalai Lama speak in July. I’m frustrated. I want to admire him, so much. He’s a monk, he’s a social revolutionary and a prominent proponent of non-violence. There’s one problem though, he’s a Buddhist. Buddhism makes me angry, mainly because it is the only major religion that denies God. I would have so much more respect for him if he said, “Buddhism is the only way. You cannot lead a productive life or reach Nirvana unless you are a Buddhist.” He could at least side with the other religions, but instead he tells people to avoid organized religion, and insists that religion is subordinate to science. He says religion and faith are unneccesary, and don’t even get me started on his ethics. I want to love the man, but he’s basically the Pope of liberals. He represents “spirituality” with our religious obligation. “Faith? Don’t need it! Buddha? Unneccesary! Religion? Fugedabout’it! Just be nice to other people, and be happy!” Which leads me to ask the question, other atheists showed themselves as the monsters they truly were. What about this atheist? He champions secular ethics while denying God! So, does that make him even more evil than Stalin or Mao? Is he truly one of the most evil men alive?

 

[Cajetan]

I want to love the man, but he’s basically the Pope of liberals.

Not necessarily. It’s mostly ignorant liberals who give that impression. Read this:

telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/burmamyanmar/1514537/%27Westerners-are-too-self-absorbed%27.html?service=print

A few quotes from the Dalai Lama from the article:

*“A gay couple came to see me, seeking my support and blessing. I had to explain our teachings. Another lady introduced another woman as her wife - astonishing. It is the same with a husband and wife using certain sexual practices. Using the other two holes is wrong.”

“A Western friend asked me what harm could there be between consenting adults having oral sex, if they enjoyed it… But the purpose of sex is reproduction, according to Buddhism. The other holes don’t create life. I don’t mind - but I can’t condone this way of life.”

“I see women who have had abortions because they thought a child would ruin their lives. A baby seemed unbearable - yet now they are older, they are unable to conceive. I feel so sorry for them.”*

 

[roanoker]

I always liked the guy. I don’t think he’s evil because he is Buddhist…Roanoker

 

[rlg94086]

I always liked the guy. I don’t think he’s evil because he is Buddhist…Roanoker

Me too. Obviously, I don’t agree with his religion or his relativism, but he has a lot of wisdom. For example…

“It is fascinating,” he says, speaking in slightly stilted English. “In the West, you have bigger homes, yet smaller families; you have endless conveniences - yet you never seem to have any time. You can travel anywhere in the world, yet you don’t bother to cross the road to meet your neighbours; you have more food than you could possibly eat, yet that makes women like Heidi miserable.”

The West’s big problem, he believes, is that people have become too self-absorbed. “I don’t think people have become more selfish, but their lives have become easier and that has spoilt them. They have less resilience, they expect more, they constantly compare themselves to others and they have too much choice - which brings no real freedom.”

He has lived as a monk since childhood, but the Dalai Lama views marriage as one of the chief ways of finding happiness. “Too many people in the West have given up on marriage. They don’t understand that it is about developing a mutual admiration of someone, a deep respect and trust and awareness of another human’s needs,” he says. “The new easy-come, easy-go relationships give us more freedom - but less contentment.”

Sounds fairly…Catholic.

 

[Pope_Noah_I]

I KNOW! He sounds so orthodox here, right? Than he goes and condones it in other places. It’s very confusing.

 

[grandfather]

Sounds fairly…Catholic.

for an atheist.

 

[mozier]

Consider how the Dalai Lama has lived. From an early age he’s been constantly told that he is the reincarnation of some previous Dalai Lama, so he believes it. He is also the leader of Tibet, both spiritual and secular (the two are completely intertwined in that world), albeit in exile. He sees what his people are going through, and he cares deeply for them. Plus, he is the first one to be Dalai Lama in our media age, so he has become very good at using the media and bringing in people to his faith (like Richard Gere and others) so that it can get promoted. This in turn brings attention to his people in Tibet.

So is he evil? No more than any other man is capable of it. He believes what he believes and teaches what he teaches. Take it or leave it, believe it or believe it not. I believe him to be a misguided man, but he does much good in our world. May God bless him and guide him as He sees fit, and may the Dalai Lama respond to it as best as he can (Romans 2).

 

[blessedtoo]

I’m going to see the Dalai Lama speak in July. I’m frustrated. I want to admire him, so much. He’s a monk, he’s a social revolutionary and a prominent proponent of non-violence. There’s one problem though, he’s a Buddhist. Buddhism makes me angry, mainly because it is the only major religion that denies God. I would have so much more respect for him if he said, “Buddhism is the only way. You cannot lead a productive life or reach Nirvana unless you are a Buddhist.” He could at least side with the other religions, but instead he tells people to avoid organized religion, and insists that religion is subordinate to science. He says religion and faith are unneccesary, and don’t even get me started on his ethics. I want to love the man, but he’s basically the Pope of liberals. He represents “spirituality” with our religious obligation. “Faith? Don’t need it! Buddha? Unneccesary! Religion? Fugedabout’it! Just be nice to other people, and be happy!” Which leads me to ask the question, other atheists showed themselves as the monsters they truly were. What about this atheist? He champions secular ethics while denying God! So, does that make him even more evil than Stalin or Mao? Is he truly one of the most evil men alive?

Pope,
I think you’ll like this:
youtube.com/watch?v=igIBSeaJ9YI&eurl=http://cordeliashoes.blogspot.com/2007/08/john-safran-pope-vs-dalai-lama.html

 

[rlg94086]

for an atheist.

Indeed. I wasn’t claiming he is saved…that is up to God. I am saying that his reflections are often in line with Church teaching. There are many atheists/non-christians/non-Catholics who have some beliefs/morals that are very Catholic. Pray that they come to the fullness of Truth.

 

[lovesMary]

The title of this thread is definately an eye catching one.

I think the Dalai Lama is rather a pop celebrity. He preaches general, nice things that the Hollywood pop cult crowd likes, without really making moral demands on people. He has some good ideas, but it’s all pretty sugar coated so as not to offend anyone.

 

[rlg94086]

The title of this thread is definately an eye catching one.

I think the Dalai Lama is rather a pop celebrity. He preaches general, nice things that the Hollywood pop cult crowd likes, without really making moral demands on people. He has some good ideas, but it’s all pretty sugar coated so as not to offend anyone.

Only because they tend to ignore the preaching they don’t like. As Cajetan points out in this post - forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=3634948&postcount=2

Most of the celebreties who praise the Dalai Lama would be Cafeteria Tibetan Buddhists.

 

[notself]

I’m going to see the Dalai Lama speak in July. I’m frustrated. I want to admire him, so much. He’s a monk, he’s a social revolutionary and a prominent proponent of non-violence. There’s one problem though, he’s a Buddhist. Buddhism makes me angry, mainly because it is the only major religion that denies God. I would have so much more respect for him if he said, “Buddhism is the only way. You cannot lead a productive life or reach Nirvana unless you are a Buddhist.” He could at least side with the other religions, but instead he tells people to avoid organized religion, and insists that religion is subordinate to science. He says religion and faith are unneccesary, and don’t even get me started on his ethics. I want to love the man, but he’s basically the Pope of liberals. He represents “spirituality” with our religious obligation. “Faith? Don’t need it! Buddha? Unneccesary! Religion? Fugedabout’it! Just be nice to other people, and be happy!” Which leads me to ask the question, other atheists showed themselves as the monsters they truly were. What about this atheist? He champions secular ethics while denying God! So, does that make him even more evil than Stalin or Mao? Is he truly one of the most evil men alive?

Could you give some links to direct quotes of the Dalai Lama where he tells people to avoid organized religion or that religion and faith are unnecessary? I would be interested in reading them.

In this link he discourgages people of other religions from converting to Buddhism.

The Dalai Lama has said that Western Christians and Muslims should embrace the teachings of compassion and peace that can be found in their own religious traditions, rather than convert to Buddhism.
cathnews.com/news/511/142.php

 

[Hastrman]

I thought I’d point out that his branch of Buddhism, Vajrayana (the Adamant/Diamond/Thunderbolt, depending on your translation, Vehicle), actually doesn’t deny God.

It denies everything else.

See, Vajrayana (and Mahayana) Buddhists interpret the No-Soul or “anatman” teaching of Buddhism to mean that there are no essences, only Existence itself.

Which is God.

And the only times I’ve ever seen him even come close to condoning homosexuality is, after giving the Buddhist teaching on it, he sometimes says something like, “but this could just be our tradition.” Which is a polite Asian way of saying, “I don’t mean to offend and I’d just as soon not argue.”

 

[Tic_Toc]

I’m going to see the Dalai Lama speak in July. I’m frustrated. I want to admire him, so much. He’s a monk, he’s a social revolutionary and a prominent proponent of non-violence. There’s one problem though, he’s a Buddhist. Buddhism makes me angry, mainly because it is the only major religion that denies God. I would have so much more respect for him if he said, “Buddhism is the only way. You cannot lead a productive life or reach Nirvana unless you are a Buddhist.” He could at least side with the other religions, but instead he tells people to avoid organized religion, and insists that religion is subordinate to science. He says religion and faith are unneccesary, and don’t even get me started on his ethics. I want to love the man, but he’s basically the Pope of liberals. He represents “spirituality” with our religious obligation. “Faith? Don’t need it! Buddha? Unneccesary! Religion? Fugedabout’it! Just be nice to other people, and be happy!” Which leads me to ask the question, other atheists showed themselves as the monsters they truly were. What about this atheist? He champions secular ethics while denying God! So, does that make him even more evil than Stalin or Mao? Is he truly one of the most evil men alive?

Good gravy. Atheists aren’t monsters. Some are, but there are some Catholics who are monsters, too. Stalin was a Catholic, actually. Buddhists aren’t evil people either. I’m pretty sure any person who feels bad about doing harm to another person and believing that there are ways to Truth other than organized religion (don’t forget, scientology is a ‘religion’) makes some valid points.

 

[JonW]

Stalin was not a Catholic

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin

Scientology is a cult, not a religion. But you’re right: most atheists are not monsters. In fact, I would argue, the ones who are most honest and least prejudiced are also some of the most open to God’s grace.

Jon

 

[grandfather]

Good gravy. Atheists aren’t monsters. Some are, but there are some Catholics who are monsters, too. Stalin was a Catholic, actually. Buddhists aren’t evil people either. I’m pretty sure any person who feels bad about doing harm to another person and believing that there are ways to Truth other than organized religion (don’t forget, scientology is a ‘religion’) makes some valid points.

This is the second time I have heard the claim Stalin was a Catholic. Communism is an atheist ideology. Communist regimes persecuted Catholics all over the globe including Russia. Russia had very very few Catohlics before the Communist revolution, the religion of Holy Russia being Orthodox. Any tolerance of religion in Russia by the officially atheist Soviet Republic was of the Orthodox. Under Stalin Catholic Churches were taken by the state and used for state purposes or given to the Orthodox. I met a man who spent 25 years in the gulags simply for refusing to renounce Catholicism.

Can you or anyone tell us where you learned Stalin was a Catholic? I do not think that is true.

 

[grandfather]

Noah,

Why would you want to go see Dalai speak in the first place?

 

[ChristIsTheWay]

Only because they tend to ignore the preaching they don’t like. As Cajetan points out in this post - forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=3634948&postcount=2

Most of the celebreties who praise the Dalai Lama would be Cafeteria Tibetan Buddhists.

Indeed. This “pick and choose” nonsense isn’t limited to just Catholicism. It is everywhere.

Could you give some links to direct quotes of the Dalai Lama where he tells people to avoid organized religion or that religion and faith are unnecessary? I would be interested in reading them.

In this link he discourgages people of other religions from converting to Buddhism.

I’d also be interested in reading some quotes where he claims religion is subordinate to science. I know Carl Sagan mentions in one of his books that the Dalai Lama stated that if science irrefutably proved that one of Buddhism tenets was wrong, then Buddhism would change. Sagan then relates how the Dalai Lama believes it would be difficult for science to do something like disprove reincarnation. I don’t think that means the Dalai Lama believes in the superiority of science. In fact, I’ve heard he refuses to accept that the universe has a beginning (as our science says) because Buddhism teachings something else. I might be wrong, though.

 

[grandfather]

Stalin was not a Catholic

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin

Scientology is a cult, not a religion. But you’re right: most atheists are not monsters. In fact, I would argue, the ones who are most honest and least prejudiced are also some of the most open to God’s grace.

Jon

It is impossible to do good if you do not know what good is. Jesus said, “You can do nothing without me”.

Human beings can mean well, have good intentions, but do evil.
The reason is we can not see final outcomes. We set things in motion and the consequences are unknown to us. We do this by the choices we make everyday.

How we behave and treat one another will determine the future. If our behavior is moral or immoral it will determine the future. We can not be moral unless we know what moral behavior is. Human beings do not figure this out on their own. It does not come naturally.

It is natural to be deceitful. Little children do not need to be taught to lie. “Who broke that lamp”? Not me! We need to be taught to tell the truth. How do we know it is wrong to lie, or cheat, or steal? In nature animals will steal the food of another. The strong survive. How do we know it is moral to care for the weak and not exploit them?

History tells us we did not figure this out, but that how we should live together was revealed.

We are all shaped by our culture. We are all influenced by it, with its values imprinted on us. Some people think that is not true. Some people think they are free thinkers and make up their own minds and come to a decision that it is better to be kind and treat others with respect. This is a cultural value whether or not we believe it. We are taught behavior even though we might think we are independent creatures deciding for ourselves.

A friend is right now in India on business. He is torn seeing children going through garbage piles looking for food, licking wrappers for residue of food, before the flies and rats get to it. He feels compassion that pains him simply over seeing this. He does not understand how people can ignore the plight of these kids. He says the caste system is fully alive and functioning. If he were born there he would not have the same reaction. The religion of this culture says the untouchables deserve their fate. We are shaped by our culture which is shaped by its religion.

An American atheist says he can be moral without God. We do not even know what it means to be moral without God. We can embrace or reject ideas or moral constructs that seem right to us, but the ideas are not ours.

 

[Pope_Noah_I]

Could you give some links to direct quotes of the Dalai Lama where he tells people to avoid organized religion or that religion and faith are unnecessary? I would be interested in reading them.

In this link he discourgages people of other religions from converting to Buddhism.

“If you have a particular faith or religion, that is good. But you can survive without it.”

“The ultimate authority must always rest with the individual’s own reason and critical analysis.”

"There is no need for temples, no need for complicated philosophies. My brain and my heart are my temples; my philosophy is kindness. "

"We can live without religion and meditation, but we cannot survive without human affection. "

"We do not need to become religious, nor do we need to believe in an ideology. All that is necessary is for each of us to develop our good human qualities. "

"… if scientific analysis were conclusively to demonstrate certain claims in Buddhism to be false, then we must accept the findings of science and abandon those claims. "

“I am convinced that everyone can develop a good heart and a sense of universal responsibility with or without religion.”