The Dark Knight (Batman Movie) - A religious statement?

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Contarini said:
Your criticisms of Christianity would have more weight if it appeared that you actually knew something about it.

Edwin
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Indeed

The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree…

Now, how about you create a thread detailing how one can disobey God and still get to heaven.:rolleyes:
 
MarcoPolo said:
I’m gonna have to warn you to be a little more respectful on this forum. Especially if you are going to prop up a fictitious clown murderer instead…
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Perhaps not the most PC description, but is it inaccurate?😉

Back ontopic, I think the Dark Knight has more in common with the myth of Orestes than anything remotely religious.
 
Isambard said:
He came back with his death wounds, showing them to Thomas did he not?
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Coming back from the dead with wounds does not make one a zombie.

Definition of zombie as follows:

a: the supernatural power that according to voodoo belief may enter into and reanimate a dead body b: a will-less and speechless human in the West Indies capable only of automatic movement who is held to have died and been supernaturally reanimated…

or a mixed drink made of several kinds of rum, liqueur, and fruit juice

Jesus doesn’t fit either of these description.

Back to topic The movie was awesome and great from begining to end. The ending was straight out of the Comic Books. So I thought it made sense.
 
jimmy said:
Actually that was the point that the joker was trying to make. The movie ended with the opposite point being emphasized. With the final experiment of the joker he failed and the people decided to not do evil for the sake of saving their lives. The joker was trying to make the point the laws only exist to create order so he tried to create chaos. He was proved wrong by the goodness in man.
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yeah, but again. who was the guy that
stepped up and saved the day in the
boat experiment? a “bad” guy.

i think the final words from batman
suggests that man created gods/devils,
just like they made the dead guy the hero
and batman the villian. a few people saw
that the world was in chaos and decided
to do something about it.
 
KenEOTE said:
Coming back from the dead with wounds does not make one a zombie.

Definition of zombie as follows:

a: the supernatural power that according to voodoo belief may enter into and reanimate a dead body b: a will-less and speechless human in the West Indies capable only of automatic movement who is held to have died and been supernaturally reanimated…

or a mixed drink made of several kinds of rum, liqueur, and fruit juice

Jesus doesn’t fit either of these description.
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Don’t forget how zombies have to stick their fists back into the dirt of their original grave in order to snap out of zombie-ness. Nor does following a zombie get you into heaven… :rolleyes:
 
Isambard said:
Indeed

The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree…
Click to expand...
No doubt you think you are very clever. In about ten years, when you have grown up (hopefully), come back and make an actual argument.
Now, how about you create a thread detailing how one can disobey God and still get to heaven.:rolleyes:
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One can’t. But neither can one reduce Christianity to “following God=good; not following God=bad.” Obviously any theistic religion is going to say this. But this is not an adequate statement of Christianity.

Of course, you are not in the least interested in summarizing adequately or fairly views with which you disagree, are you?

Edwin
 
KenEOTE said:
Coming back from the dead with wounds does not make one a zombie.

Definition of zombie as follows:

a: the supernatural power that according to voodoo belief may enter into and reanimate a dead body b: a will-less and speechless human in the West Indies capable only of automatic movement who is held to have died and been supernaturally reanimated…

or a mixed drink made of several kinds of rum, liqueur, and fruit juice

Jesus doesn’t fit either of these description.
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I guess it depends on the dictionary. Jesus as a zombie fits mine

"Main Entry: zom·bie
Variant(s): also zom·bi \ˈzäm-bē\
Function: noun
Etymology: Louisiana Creole or Haitian Creole zonbi, of Bantu origin; akin to Kimbundu nzúmbe ghost
Date: circa 1871
1usually zombi a: the supernatural power that according to voodoo belief may enter into and reanimate a dead body "
merriam-webster.com/dictionary/zombie
😃
KenEOTE said:
Back to topic The movie was awesome and great from begining to end. The ending was straight out of the Comic Books. So I thought it made sense.
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Agreed. The one thing bugging me however is how they are going top it. I mean Ledger’s performance was very much singular witch imo, was better than even the comicbook Joker.

What next?:confused:
 
Contarini said:
No doubt you think you are very clever. In about ten years, when you have grown up (hopefully), come back and make an actual argument.
Click to expand...
And perhaps once you’ve attended a post-secondary learning institution, you’ll learn not to use ad hominems.:rolleyes:
Contarini said:
One can’t. But neither can one reduce Christianity to “following God=good; not following God=bad.” Obviously any theistic religion is going to say this. But this is not an adequate statement of Christianity.

Of course, you are not in the least interested in summarizing adequately or fairly views with which you disagree, are you?

Edwin
Click to expand...
If one cant, then my statement holds. Thanks for playing.
 
I think the Joker is the ideal “bad guy” because it is the type of bad guy I would have created if I were a writer. FAR too often the movies make the bad guy wanting money or power to the point it makes you tired of it all. But Joker was different, he was mad at the world and had nothing to live for so that made him TRULY bad and dangerous.
In some ways it is like the Devil, who knows the game is up but is trying to take down as many people as he can with the time left.
 
I love this movie! It was one of the few “superhero” that actually made me think. It was like a psychological study of human nature. The Joker was a master of mind games.

God Bless,
Michael
 
Isambard said:
according to voodoo belief
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Oh, so by your own definition Jesus is not a zombie. Remind me to avoid your recommendation of secondary institutions of “higher” ed.

Well, I’ve had my fun feeding today…
 
WindyHair said:
yeah, but again. who was the guy that
stepped up and saved the day in the
boat experiment? a “bad” guy.

i think the final words from batman
suggests that man created gods/devils,
just like they made the dead guy the hero
and batman the villian. a few people saw
that the world was in chaos and decided
to do something about it.
Click to expand...
It doesn’t matter who was the one who saved the day on the boat whether he was good or bad. The history of Christianity is full of sinners who turned into great saints. There are examples of murderers who became saints. Take for example Mary Magdalene who had seven demons cast out of her.

The point was that man has some degree of honor and truth. There is a limit to what they will do before they say something is evil and should not be done. The joker tried to prove it wrong. He tried to prove that when the rules are upset and chaos ensues man will do anything to save himself or get what he needs. He was proved wrong when a criminal did what was necessary to avoid evil.
 
jimmy said:
Actually that was the point that the joker was trying to make. The movie ended with the opposite point being emphasized. With the final experiment of the joker he failed and the people decided to not do evil for the sake of saving their lives. The joker was trying to make the point the laws only exist to create order so he tried to create chaos. He was proved wrong by the goodness in man.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I understand the message they were trying to get across with the whole ‘social experiment’ thing at the end, but do you honestly think it would have worked out that way? Men aren’t good. No man is good. And one practically has to imagine goodness to see a glimmer of it in anyone.

Then again, such a dark film does bring out the pessimist in me, but I think the outcome would have been entirely different. On the prisoner barge? Possibly. The guilty yearn for justice. But on the passenger ferry? I envision the mother, in a frantic gesture to save her child, would have snatched the detonator away and turned the firing mechanism.

Which would, I think, have blown up the boat THEY were on, and not the other ship. Simply because, well, that’s how I’d rig it.

I think the Joker would have been much more pleased, not to see a dead Batman, but rather, a corrupted, or at very least broken one. In a way, he got just that, as Batman had to leave behind his place as Gotham’s hero to become it’s next monster. All so the people could believe a lie.

Essentially, I saw it very much so as being akin to the Watchmen, in which the evil means are presented as justifying the noble ends.

And to that end, I saw the Joker as being a degree more honest, depite the fact that he was a liar, in that his actions were in every way directed at a singular purpose, chaos.

Be hot or be cold! If you’re good, act that way! Stay that way! If evil, be evil! And let the world know you for what you are! The facade is not deceptive, it’s annoying!:banghead:
 
Isambard said:
No other thread is necessary, observe:

Dark Knight’s approach tells a story of greys more reminisant of reality. Batman must break the law to uphold it. In an ironic twist, his zeal to clean the streets of gotham creates more pain and suffering in the world through the Joker. Another theme held over from the comics, is identity. Despite making the life of Batman much easier (and sparing the world from future suffering), batman cannot bring himself to kill the Joker, whereas the Joker cant bring himself to kill batman.

Now compare this to christian mythology
Following God (personified by Jesus) = good
Not following God (personified by Satan) = bad.
Deep indeed:rolleyes:
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Yes well put!
Joker held people in bondage for their sins and Batman held himself in bondage. We are all guilty of sin and at the same time victims of other peoples sin. Now the question lies do we accept forgiveness from G-d for our sins and be merciful to others; or do we hold others in bondage for their sins. I think Joker was guilty of denying his own sins and charging others (pretty evil). And Batman knew his sin but did not ask for forgiveness, and forced himself to battle an evil that only one with superhuman powers could take on. It is important to remember that our G-d already sent someone to conquer evil, including death. Batman character was glamourized by Hollywood, though in reality his life would be much darker and sad because of the overall corruption of man (businessman, mayor, bank robber, etc…). Hopefully the generation that this movie was targeted towards can see through this mess of a false reality, and see life for what it is. I did think it was an interesting movie, but over glamourized with many mixed messages.🤷
 
:knight2: :knight2:
Isambard said:
No other thread is necessary, observe:

Dark Knight’s approach tells a story of greys more reminisant of reality. Batman must break the law to uphold it. In an ironic twist, his zeal to clean the streets of gotham creates more pain and suffering in the world through the Joker. Another theme held over from the comics, is identity. Despite making the life of Batman much easier (and sparing the world from future suffering), batman cannot bring himself to kill the Joker, whereas the Joker cant bring himself to kill batman.

Now compare this to christian mythology
Following God (personified by Jesus) = good
Not following God (personified by Satan) = bad.
Deep indeed:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Yes well put!
Joker held people in bondage for their sins and Batman held himself in bondage. We are all guilty of sin and at the same time victims of other peoples sin. Now the question lies do we accept forgiveness from G-d for our sins and be merciful to others; or do we hold others in bondage for their sins. I think Joker was guilty of denying his own sins and charging others (pretty evil). And Batman knew his sin but did not ask for forgiveness, and forced himself to battle an evil that only one with superhuman powers could take on. It is important to remember that our G-d already sent someone to conquer evil, including death. Batman character was glamourized by Hollywood, though in reality his life would be much darker and sad because of the overall corruption of man (businessman, mayor, bank robber, etc…). Hopefully the generation that this movie was targeted towards can see through this mess of a false reality, and see life for what it is. I did think it was an interesting movie, but over glamourized with many mixed messages.🤷
 
Be hot or be cold! If you’re good, act that way! Stay that way! If evil, be evil! And let the world know you for what you are! The facade is not deceptive, it’s annoying!

you have a good point but here’s the dilemma,
EVERYONE claims to be the good guy,
and accuses others of being the bad.
everyone claims they have the truth
and the accuses the others of lies.

ofcourse WE aren’t the terrorists.
we only dropped 2 of the biggest bombs
in the world on innocent civilians.
what can be more terrorfying than
setting off nuclear bombs in cities?

it’s all a matter of perspective.
in the end there’s order and chaos.
but order is not always good,
and chaos is not always bad.
 
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