The Dark Side of Darwin's Legacy

[Catholic_Johnny]

Just because a scientific theory can be used to try to justify evil, that does not mean that the theory is incorrect. The Argentine Junta killed dissidents by throwing them out of aircraft; does that mean that the Theory of Gravity and the Theory of Flight are both incorrect because they were capable of being misused? Hitler used Pasteur to justify racism, yet that does not affect the fact that bacteria and viruses do indeed cause diseases. Christianity was used to justify killing witches - “You shall not allow a witch to live” - yet that does not invalidate Christianity.

Your argument fails because it casts too wide a net. Hitler and the others used a great many things to try to justify evil. You cannot pick just one of those things without also implicating the others. rossum

If this were merely a matter of syllogisms, your points might be accepted as plausible in theory. But this is not about syllogisms, abstractions, nor theoreticals. Certainly the math will not hold up when you compare the millions condemned to die at the hands of Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, Kim Il Sung, et al, all doctrinaire darwinists, all eager eugenicists, *all *materialists, all socialists, collectivists, idolaters, and deniers of Christ. In vain do you suppose to draw a convinced Christian as myself into conflating our Blessed Religion which is the Word of God with pagan grotesquery like darwinism. You yourself know quite well without my rehearsing arguments that natural selection is understood by these murderous tyrants as the moral justification for their butchery, destruction and oppression of humanity.

Now, to you Christians agape at my remarks: repent! Or do you think baptizing this pernicious and murderous heresy is a small thing? Do you not hear our Lord’s warnings?

34 The lamp of the body is the eye. Therefore, when your eye is good, your whole body also is full of light. But when your eye is bad, your body also is full of darkness. 35 Therefore take heed that the light which is in you is not darkness. Luke 11

Let us hear it from a Hebrew Catholic whose parents suffered under Hitler’s hand:

“There is facile temptation to think of Nazi anti-Semitism as an expression of Christianity and Christian theology – “applied Christianity”, if you will. Yet even a cursory examination of Nazi writings and policies shows that this is far from the truth – on the contrary, the campaign to exterminate the Jews grew out of the worldview of secular materialism, of evolution, and the exaltation of the natural over the supernatural, and was in fact, an extreme expression of “applied Darwinism”.
Roy H. Shoeman, Salvation is from the Jews, © 2003, Ignatius Press

 

[Catholic_Johnny]

The National Academies of Sciences states that Darwin’s book has had an effect on society. Right now, it is the primary ideological weapon of the anti-theist. This appears to be its most common use. As far as its value in present day science, there does not appear to be any demonstrable connection between the theory and what goes on in labs around the world. (A) The ‘minimal cell’ is turning out to be more complex than originally thought. (B) Attempting to find out what certain genes do by conducting ‘genetic knock out’ experiments and seeing what happens. (C) Synthetic biology is attempting to reverse engineer living cells in an attempt to duplicate/control/modify some/all function.

Peace,
Ed

Well said, Ed. There are simply no steps forward in the sciences that are directly attributable to evolutionism. Every stride forward that advances humanity is dependent on altruistic motives. Christ commands ‘serve the poor.’ Evolutionism demands ‘kill the weak.’

 

[Sair]

You make my point for me. Darwinism is animated by the same spirit as all other atrocities - satan. Your gratuitous conflation of the Church’s errors (miniscule compared to the scourge wrought by communists) gives great occasion to the Lord’s enemies to blaspheme His worthy name.

Actually, all it proves is that people will use whatever ideology can best be manipulated to support their desires for power and destruction - Christianity, evolutionary theory, Islam, socialism, capitalism…you name it, they’re all ripe for the picking by the unscrupulous, the selfish and the stupid amongst the human race.

 

[Catholic_Johnny]

Actually, all it proves is that people will use whatever ideology can best be manipulated to support their desires for power and destruction - Christianity, evolutionary theory, Islam, socialism, capitalism…you name it, they’re all ripe for the picking by the unscrupulous, the selfish and the stupid amongst the human race.

That statement appears to regard Christianity as just another ideological vehicle for tyrants. Sad. “By their fruits you shall know them.”

 

[rossum]

If this were merely a matter of syllogisms, your points might be accepted as plausible in theory.

My syllogisms are correct. Your arguments fail logically, the error is known as the argumentum ad consequentiam. Merely because something has bad consequences does not mean that it is not true. Some true things do have bad consequences.

Certainly the math will not hold up when you compare the millions condemned to die at the hands of Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, Kim Il Sung, et al, all doctrinaire darwinists,

You are being lied to by your sources. Please go away and study the history of Lysenkoism in the Soviet Union under Stalin. Then look up the lives and deaths of Isaak Agol, Solomon Levit, Grigorii Levitskii, Georgii Karpechenko, Georgii Nadson and Nikolai Vavilov. Why do you follow a source that lies to you?

In vain do you suppose to draw a convinced Christian as myself into conflating our Blessed Religion which is the Word of God with pagan grotesquery like darwinism. You yourself know quite well without my rehearsing arguments that natural selection is understood by these murderous tyrants as the moral justification for their butchery, destruction and oppression of humanity.

Just as other murderous tyrants have used religion to justify butchery. We have seen in the past that Christianity is not immune to being abused by murderous tyrants - why do you say that it cannot be so abused when history tells us that it can be so abused?

Let us hear it from a Hebrew Catholic whose parents suffered under Hitler’s hand:

Let us also hear from the Anti-Defamation League:Hitler did not need Darwin to devise his heinous plan to exterminate the Jewish people and Darwin and evolutionary theory cannot explain Hitler’s genocidal madness.

Using the Holocaust in order to tarnish those who promote the theory of evolution is outrageous and trivializes the complex factors that led to the mass extermination of European Jewry.

• Source: adl.org/PresRele/HolNa_52/5277_52.htm

rossum

 

[Sair]

That statement appears to regard Christianity as just another ideological vehicle for tyrants. Sad. “By their fruits you shall know them.”

Read some history. If Christianity is to be judged by its ‘fruits’ - its consequences - then it will appear no rosier than any other absolutist ideology. I rather think, though, that the phrase you quote refers to individuals and their honesty. Those who use an ideology to serve their own ends, rather than using it to benefit humanity and the world, are seldom honest.

 

[Catholic_Johnny]

My syllogisms are correct. Your arguments fail logically, the error is known as the argumentum ad consequentiam. Merely because something has bad consequences does not mean that it is not true. Some true things do have bad consequences.

You, an atheist, do err because you have not the apparatus nor the conscience to weigh the morality of the said syllogisms. The consequences of evolutionism, especially as measured when applied to social policy and political theory are manifestly murderous, and no sophistry you appeal to can undo the deaths of countless millions sacrificed on the altar of social darwinism.

You are being lied to by your sources. Please go away and study the history of Lysenkoism in the Soviet Union under Stalin. Then look up the lives and deaths of Isaak Agol, Solomon Levit, Grigorii Levitskii, Georgii Karpechenko, Georgii Nadson and Nikolai Vavilov. Why do you follow a source that lies to you?

Indeed, one of us* is* being lied to. So Josef Stalin is actually a victim of his advisors? They shall be your judges.

Just as other murderous tyrants have used religion to justify butchery. We have seen in the past that Christianity is not immune to being abused by murderous tyrants - why do you say that it cannot be so abused when history tells us that it can be so abused?

Please, cite for our readers the Christian leaders that ordered 21 million murders (Hitler), 49 million murders (Mao), or 62 million murders (Stalin)? These figures of course excluding the untold millions murdered in abortion mills.

Let us also hear from the Anti-Defamation League:
Hitler did not need Darwin to devise his heinous plan to exterminate the Jewish people and Darwin and evolutionary theory cannot explain Hitler’s genocidal madness.

Using the Holocaust in order to tarnish those who promote the theory of evolution is outrageous and trivializes the complex factors that led to the mass extermination of European Jewry.

• Source: adl.org/PresRele/HolNa_52/5277_52.htm
  rossum

The ADL is its own worst enemy if it seeks cover for darwin. Sadly, that is the Biblical history of the Chosen People - siding with paganism against their own status as the Elect of God. Anyone who has read the Old Testament knows this.

 

[tjm190]

There are currently two competing worldviews, neo_darwinism and Christianity. The fruits of each and their goals are obvious. The more people embrace the neo-darwin worldview the darker the world will become. Of this there can be no doubt.

If this were true, nations with lower acceptance rates of evolution would be better off- do some poking around, you’ll find this is not the case.

 

[Catholic_Johnny]

Read some history. If Christianity is to be judged by its ‘fruits’ - its consequences - then it will appear no rosier than any other absolutist ideology.

I rest my case. Either you are hopelessly misinformed, or no Christian at all. No lover of Jesus could make such a claim. Perhaps you misunderstood those passages about salt and light and being a Royal Priesthood, a Chosen Generation and a light to the Gentiles.

Perhaps you should acqaint yourself with the Calvinist D. James Kennedy’s work, What if Jesus Had Never Been Born?

 

[Catholic_Johnny]

If this were true, nations with lower acceptance rates of evolution would be better off- do some poking around, you’ll find this is not the case.

Define better off, thou modernist.

 

[tjm190]

Well said, Ed. There are simply no steps forward in the sciences that are directly attributable to evolutionism. Every stride forward that advances humanity is dependent on altruistic motives. Christ commands ‘serve the poor.’ Evolutionism demands ‘kill the weak.’

Evolution states that the weak are more likely to die by natural means prior to passing on their genes- do you disagree? (No demands are made)

 

[Catholic_Johnny]

Evolution states that the weak are more likely to die by natural means prior to passing on their genes- do you disagree? (No demands are made)

That itself is an assertion of antisupernaturalism. Have you never read Deuteronomy 7:

6"For you are (A)a holy people to the LORD your God; the LORD your God has chosen you to be (**(“http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+7:6-8&version=NASB#cen-NASB-5118B”))a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.

7"(C)The LORD did not set His love on you nor choose you because you were more in number than any of the peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples, 8but because the LORD loved you and kept the (D)oath which He swore to your forefathers, (E)the LORD brought you out by a mighty hand and redeemed you from the house of slavery, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

God champions the Elect through His supernatural favor. If you really follow evolutionism, it is a self-fulflling ‘prophecy’ inasmuch as those societies that adopt it become the victims of it. Europe’s birthrates have fallen well below the replacement rate and Europe will be Muslim in the near future.

 

[tjm190]

That itself is an assertion of antisupernaturalism. Have you never read Deuteronomy 7:.

I’m abit confused- do you or do you not believe that the individual most likely to pass down their genes are those most fit to survive?

God champions the Elect through His supernatural favor. If you really follow evolutionism, it is a self-fulflling ‘prophecy’ inasmuch as those societies that adopt it become the victims of it. Europe’s birthrates have fallen well below the replacement rate and Europe will be Muslim in the near future.

Non sequitur, unless you have evidence of a casual relationship. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_transition explains the phenomena you’re speaking of)

 

[rossum]

You, an atheist,

I strongly suggest that you do not give up your day job in order to became a mind reader. You are not very good at telling what other people are thinking. You even failed to read the bit at the top right of my posts where it says “Religion: Buddhist”. You are closer to being an atheist than I am:At that time Shakra Devanam Indra with his followers, twenty thousand gods, also attended. There were also the gods Rare Moon, Pervading Fragrance, Jeweled Glow, and the Four Great Heavenly Kings, along with their followers, ten thousand gods.

Present were the gods Freedom and Great Freedom and their followers, thirty thousand gods, Present were King Brahma, lord of the saha world, the great Brahma Shikhin, and the great Brahma Light Bright, and their followers, twelve thousand gods.

• Saddharmapundarika sutra, Chapter One

do err because you have not the apparatus nor the conscience to weigh the morality of the said syllogisms.

You have no idea what I think. You fail to even read what is on my posts and you have the temerity to try to tell me what I think. I have a perfectly well developed conscience.

As to the syllogisms, they are correct - you are making a logical error. Evolution describes how the world is, not how we would like it to be. Our likes and dislikes do not affect reality.

The consequences of evolutionism, especially as measured when applied to social policy and political theory are manifestly murderous, and no sophistry you appeal to can undo the deaths of countless millions sacrificed on the altar of social darwinism.

How many people have died by hanging, falling off cliffs or in crashing aircraft? This appalling massacre of human beings is all down to slavish following of the theory of gravity. The theory of gravity must be false because it kills lots of people. As I said, you are trying to push a logical fallacy here, and seem unable to realise it.

Hitler was able to kill so many because he was the leader of Germany, therefore Hitler was not the leader of Germany. You are guilty of false logic. Evolution describes what is, not what ought to be. You are making a category error.

Indeed, one of us* is* being lied to. So Josef Stalin is actually a victim of his advisors? They shall be your judges.

So, you are content to remain in ignorance about both Lysenko and Stalin’s persecution and killing of Darwinian biologists? For your next homework look at the list of books burned by the Nazis, with particular reference to books by one Charles Darwin.

Please, cite for our readers the Christian leaders that ordered 21 million murders (Hitler), 49 million murders (Mao), or 62 million murders (Stalin)? These figures of course excluding the untold millions murdered in abortion mills.

Hitler was a Christian, and I have quoted him saying that he was. He also referenced Luther’s notorious pamphlet “On the Jews and their Lies” and had it reprinted. Stalin was a Christian who started training as an Orthodox priest. As far as I am aware Mao was not a Christian.

The ADL is its own worst enemy if it seeks cover for darwin. Sadly, that is the Biblical history of the Chosen People - siding with paganism against their own status as the Elect of God. Anyone who has read the Old Testament knows this.

I will take the ADL’s word on the Holocaust over yours. None of the Jews killed in the Holocaust were alive during Old Testament times, so whatever happened in those times is irrelevant to what happened in Europe 1933-45.

rossum

 

[StAnastasia]

Darwinism was the philosophical underpinning for Marx, Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, Kim Il Sung, Castro and other mass murderers."

Wait a minute – Hitler was a Christian, and so were a lot of other murderers But I think it would be premature to throw out Christianity on that basis, particularly if the religion did some good.

 

[StAnastasia]

God champions the Elect through His supernatural favor. If you really follow evolutionism, it is a self-fulflling ‘prophecy’ inasmuch as those societies that adopt it become the victims of it.

Are you a Calvinist?

 

[buffalo]

Wait a minute – Hitler was a Christian, and so were a lot of other murderers But I think it would be premature to throw out Christianity on that basis, particularly if the religion did some good.

Hitler was born a Catholic, but did not practice.

 

[StAnastasia]

Hitler was born a Catholic, but did not practice.

Still, we might as well blame the Church for the Holocaust, because he was born a Catholic. We can’t hold him alone responsible.

 

[buffalo]

Still, we might as well blame the Church for the Holocaust, because he was born a Catholic. We can’t hold him alone responsible.

Hitler rejected the Catholic religion and its teachings on human dignity. He followed the eugenics leader of the time, the US. Margaret Sanger and the Birth Control league (predecessor of Planned Parenthood) as well as other eugenicists bought into the idea of social-darwinism.

 

[StAnastasia]

Hitler rejected the Catholic religion and its teachings on human dignity. He followed the eugenics leader of the time, the US. Margaret Sanger and the Birth Control league (predecessor of Planned Parenthood) as well as other eugenicists bought into the idea of social-darwinism.

If the Church had catechized Germans better, perhaps Hitler would not have rejected the Catholic religion, and Germans would not have followed him.