The Darker Ages?

[colliric]

The thought occurred to me the other day that during the Dark Ages some or indeed most of the laws were very just and very very moral.

Abortion was outlawed
Homosexuality outlawed
Slavery outlawed
Pornography outlawed
and perhaps most famously of all there was severe restrictions on warfare…

I don’t think they would have stood for utterly terrible state of modern media these days either, especially the Video Game industry which is effectively totally uncensored. And Scientists would have probably been forced to follow stricter “Bioethics” rules.

So here’s my question… does anyone else believe that we are living in even Darker Ages right now? does anyone else believe that the so called “nuclear age” is one of the most violent immoral times in history? I mean last century was the first time that for the entire century, every single second there was war on somewhere…

I submit that we live in “The Darker Ages”…

 

[vern_humphrey]

Actually the “Dark Ages” refers to that era following the fall of the Roman Empire, when written records were no longer kept (or were very rare.) Toynbee defines the Dark Ages as “From Boethus to Abelard.”

Boethus was a classically trained philosopher who served Theodoric (who captured Rome) and who fell out of grace with Theodoric and was imprisoned and executed. In prison, he wrote The Consolation of Philosophy – the last book of the Classic or Ancient World.

Abelard was a Catholic priest who wrote Sic et Non, a book which lays out the philosophical arguments of his day.

Between the two there is very little writing at all. So we really cannot say what the laws were in the Dark Ages – we have no record of them.

 

[st_lucy]

I agree we are living in a very dark age. I always think it very curious when someone spouts out how much man kind has evolved into smarter beings. One only needs to look around and see how far back we have fallen. As a society we are very barbaric. Unlike other pagan societies we are not performing such barbaric acts out of fear of some god. We do it to satisfy our own selves. I am horrified when I think how we allow the murder of our own children. And those children who survive are than subjected to an early and perverse sexuality. Our society tends to approve of the strange acts that the media subjects on our children.

As a society we have not only killed our children but we hate anything that remotely has to do with family. Which gives our children little to no chance of coming out of childhood unscathed.

It is very scary, but we do have so many good Christian families who work so hard to fight the “norm” of the society and so I have no fear because we know that in the end God wins.

 

[colliric]

Actually the “Dark Ages” refers to that era following the fall of the Roman Empire, when written records were no longer kept (or were very rare.) Toynbee defines the Dark Ages as “From Boethus to Abelard.”

Boethus was a classically trained philosopher who served Theodoric (who captured Rome) and who fell out of grace with Theodoric and was imprisoned and executed. In prison, he wrote The Consolation of Philosophy – the last book of the Classic or Ancient World.

Abelard was a Catholic priest who wrote Sic et Non, a book which lays out the philosophical arguments of his day.

Between the two there is very little writing at all. So we really cannot say what the laws were in the Dark Ages – we have no record of them.

Meh, I think it’s a common mistake to “blur history” in this case, I wasn’t really sure of the distinction between “The Age of Chivalry” and “The Dark Ages”, nevertheless the Chivalric age is seen by many secularists and atheists as being a dark barbaric time itself, hence many people, myself included, get confused about both era’s.

 

[anthony022071]

I would say that we live in a very “hygenic” age. We cover up our moral ugliness better. On the exterior,modern society is very rational and rationally organized,smooth,slick,sleek,whitewashed.
On the inside,there is a lot of hard-heartedness,cruelty,sordidity,deceitfulness,moral casuistry. There is still much slavery and exploitation of poor people in the world,and American businesses are involved,but not so directly and obviously,and not in this country. Warfare has become more impersonal,detatched,and clinical. Abortions are provided in a safe,clean,professional,clinical environment. So as far as morality
goes,this is a very dark age in some respects.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Meh, I think it’s a common mistake to “blur history” in this case, I wasn’t really sure of the distinction between “The Age of Chivalry” and “The Dark Ages”, nevertheless the Chivalric age is seen by many secularists and atheists as being a dark barbaric time itself, hence many people, myself included, get confused about both era’s.

History can be defined as “The study of Man and Society through written records.” Where written records fail, history fails. So the era when there were few written records are truly the “Dark Ages.”

If you start with the ancient Greeks and Romans, you find a lot of written records – from census data to letters to books and so on. That comes to a halt around 500 AD, and written records don’t become common again for some 300 years. The time varies from place to place, of course, since some places were overrun by illiterate barbarians earlier and recovered later.

 

[colliric]

I would say that we live in a very “hygenic” age. We cover up our moral ugliness better. On the exterior,modern society is very rational and rationally organized,smooth,slick,sleek,whitewashed.
On the inside,there is a lot of hard-heartedness,cruelty,sordidity,deceitfulness,moral casuistry. There is still much slavery and exploitation of poor people in the world,and American businesses are involved,but not so directly and obviously,and not in this country. Warfare has become more impersonal,detatched,and clinical. Abortions are provided in a safe,clean,professional,clinical environment. So as far as morality
goes,this is a very dark age in some respects.

It is certainly a damning statistic that in Pagan Rome, 15% of the population owned 90% of the wealth… and that today, guess what? it’s still the friggen same!

 

[edwest2]

Darker Ages? A Christian should live according to the will of God as described in the Bible. I have personally witnessed the darkening of the United States over the last 30 years and it was caused by a slow poison that gradually broke down the Body of Christ.

Divorce went from rare to No-Fault Divorce.
Abortion went from 1973 - use only in cases of rape, incest and the life of the mother was in danger to the present abortion on demand.
The National Organization of women aided and abetted the breakdown of the family by not seeking solutions for the legitimate problems between men and women but by creating an us/women vs them/men mind set. Strangely, the same woman that told her “sisters” to “throw off the chains of their oppression” went and married a man.
The media continued to “push the envelope” as they called it, producing “risky,” “edgy,” “ground breaking,” “no limits” entertainment. The “envelope” has and always will be pushing against Christian morality.

And the sad fact is that it caused some Christians to gradually lower their guard. Divorce among Christians is about the same as the secular world. And the kids? Recently, a scholar ‘discovered’ that divorce had a very bad effect on the children. Really? You mean all that crying and carrying on when mom or dad left home was unexplained in the past?

Wake up my brothers and sisters in Christ. There are no “modern” sins. Everything mentioned in the Bible is still going on today. Consider that every time you turn on the TV or radio or pick up a magazine or newspaper, the secular world is speaking with one voice. Wrong is right.

God bless,
Ed

 

[anthony022071]

Meh, I think it’s a common mistake to “blur history” in this case, I wasn’t really sure of the distinction between “The Age of Chivalry” and “The Dark Ages”, nevertheless the Chivalric age is seen by many secularists and atheists as being a dark barbaric time itself, hence many people, myself included, get confused about both era’s.

Since the Renaissance,there’s been an unfair prejudice among historians against the civilizations of the period from the fall of Rome to the barbarians and up to the 1400’s or so. To a large extent it has to do with distaste and prejudice for Christianity and Catholicism.

 

[colliric]

I think this quote sums up what I think about the Nuclear Age:

“Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should.” - Ian Malcolm

 

[colliric]

Since the Renaissance,there’s been an unfair prejudice among historians against the civilizations of the period from the fall of Rome to the barbarians and up to the 1400’s or so. To a large extent it has to do with distaste and prejudice for Christianity and Catholicism.

Which is funny because without the Church, the Renaissance itself wouldn’t have occurred… But don’t let that ruin their party ay?

 

[vern_humphrey]

It is certainly a damning statistic that in Pagan Rome, 15% of the population owned 90% of the wealth… and that today, guess what? it’s still the friggen same!

But the difference is, even the lowest socio-economic strata in industrialized countries are far wealthier than most Romans ever were.

 

[colliric]

But the difference is, even the lowest socio-economic strata in industrialized countries are far wealthier than most Romans ever were.

This matters not, it is all relative. We may have more wealth today, but that wealth is relative. For them, Poverty was much worse than it is for us.

The ratio has remained the same, and that is a damning testimony to the selfishness of the “creme de lar creme”

 

[Wolseley]

I would say that we live in a very “hygenic” age. We cover up our moral ugliness better. On the exterior,modern society is very rational and rationally organized,smooth,slick,sleek,whitewashed.
On the inside,there is a lot of hard-heartedness,cruelty,sordidity,deceitfulness,moral casuistry. There is still much slavery and exploitation of poor people in the world,and American businesses are involved,but not so directly and obviously,and not in this country. Warfare has become more impersonal,detatched,and clinical. Abortions are provided in a safe,clean,professional,clinical environment. So as far as morality
goes,this is a very dark age in some respects.

Or as Jesus put it, our society is a whitewashed sepulchre.

 

[vern_humphrey]

This matters not, it is all relative.

Actually, it matters a great deal.

We may have more wealth today, but that wealth is relative. For them, Poverty was much worse than it is for us.

Which is why it matters a great deal.

The ratio has remained the same, and that is a damning testimony to the selfishness of the “creme de lar creme”

How so? Are today’s rich the same people (or the direct descendants of) the rich of say, 100 BC?

And how are they “selfish?”

Let me ask you this – suppose we have two men, John and Jim, both the same age, intelligence, health and so on.

John works his way through school, gets a job, scrimps and saves, starts a business, hires people – and today has a thousand employees making a good living wage at his business.

Jim drops out of school, uses drugs and steals to pay for them. Most of the time he’s on welfare, or some other form of public assistance.

Which is “selfish,” John or Jim?

 

[LilyM]

The thought occurred to me the other day that during the Dark Ages some or indeed most of the laws were very just and very very moral.

Abortion was outlawed
Homosexuality outlawed
Slavery outlawed
Pornography outlawed
and perhaps most famously of all there was severe restrictions on warfare…

Slavery outlawed? Tell that to all the modern-day descendants of African-American slaves. Slavery and its near cousins such as serfdom or debt-slavery were very much alive and kicking. Abortion? May have been illegal, practiced very widely nonetheless. Possibly as widely as it is today, we’ll never know.

Pornography and homosexuality? Around since the time of the Greeks and Romans. Again not unpracticed, simply forced underground in some cases. In others, where the practitioners were rich or influential enough to get away with it (as in the case of a couple of the Kings of England and France, and even the Borgia Pope Alexander VI) they didn’t even bother to hide their tendencies to homosexuality or their collections of pornographic art.

Restrictions on war? Only the practical limits imposed by the fact that it was technically difficult to gather and supply large armies, fight in winter etc etc.

Certainly if you read up on Edward I’s and II’s wars with Robert the Bruce in Scotland you’d be under no illusions about the ‘chivalry’ of medieval warfare. Everything up to and including murdering opponents inside churches, hanging drawing and quartering others and cruelly torturing still more by putting them in iron cages hung from castle walls!

 

[anthony022071]

Or as Jesus put it, our society is a whitewashed sepulchre.

Yes,I was going to mention that saying.

 

[anthony022071]

It is certainly a damning statistic that in Pagan Rome, 15% of the population owned 90% of the wealth… and that today, guess what? it’s still the friggen same!

For me,that’s nothing to be suprised at or too outraged about. All great civilizations are pyramid shaped. That is to say,there is a small minority of extremely wealthy people on top,a larger proportion of aristocrats or upper middle class people,an even larger proportion of middle class people,an even larger proportion of lower middle class or proletarian people,and perhaps an even larger proportion of slaves or impoverished people at the bottom.
How could it be otherwise?
We can’t have a civilization structured like an upside-down pyramid. The structure of civilizations are subject to laws of gravity and mass just like mountains. And besides that,there will always be a few people who are far more ambitious and acquisitive and than most other people in society.

In the case of American civilization,the extent of poverty and unfairness is less obvious,because we no longer have a slave class or a large proportion of proletariat citizens within our borders,and there is much upward social mobility within our borders. But we do,in a sense,have a slave class in other countries by way of out-sourced jobs. A lot of our manufacturing,factory,and farming work is done by people in other countries who are badly underpaid and badly treated by the foreign businessmen and governments that American companies do business with. And we also take advantage of Mexican illegal immigrants who are not in a position to protest too much,who don’t have a full legal standing as citizens,who are desperate for any jobs and have to take what they can get.

 

[colliric]

Actually, it matters a great deal.

Which is why it matters a great deal.

How so? Are today’s rich the same people (or the direct descendants of) the rich of say, 100 BC?

And how are they “selfish?”

Let me ask you this – suppose we have two men, John and Jim, both the same age, intelligence, health and so on.

John works his way through school, gets a job, scrimps and saves, starts a business, hires people – and today has a thousand employees making a good living wage at his business.

Jim drops out of school, uses drugs and steals to pay for them. Most of the time he’s on welfare, or some other form of public assistance.

Which is “selfish,” John or Jim?

With that John and Jim example yes I agree with you John is not selfish, sadly with gigantic corporations that is rarely the case. Small business is Good, large corporations are not so good, mainly because they send the good small business out of business for the sake of “shareholders”.

 

[vern_humphrey]

With that John and Jim example yes I agree with you John is not selfish, sadly with gigantic corporations that is rarely the case. Small business is Good, large corporations are not so good, mainly because they send the good small business out of business for the sake of “shareholders”.

Can you back that up with real data?

How does employing millions of people and producing the goods and services the rest of us need add up to “not so good?”