The Darkness and God

[BarbaraTherese]

Thomas Merton is one of my favourite authors. Sometimes I can agree with his thoughts, at other times not:coffeeread: - but he always makes me think. He has the gift of taking one so far, and leaving the rest of the journey as something very personal.
We tend to think that eternity is something that begins after death. Rather we are in eternity now which has no beginning nor end. Death and Heaven simply remain a stage in that eternity that is the eternal now.

"In one sense we are always traveling, and traveling as if we did not know where we were going.

In another sense we have already arrived.
We cannot arrive at the perfect possession of God in this life, and that is why we are traveling and in darkness. But we already possess Him by grace, and therefore, in that sense, we have arrived and are dwelling in the light.
But oh! How far have I to go to find You in Whom I have already arrived!

Thomas Merton. The Seven Storey Mountain. New York: Harcourt, Brace, 1948: 419
Thought to Remember

“I will travel to You, Lord, through a thousand blind alleys. You want to bring me to You through stone walls.”

Thomas Merton. *Entering the Silence. *Journals Volume 2. Jonathan Montaldo, editor. San Francisco: HarperSanFrancisco, 1996: 46

Blessings all…Barb

 

[blessedstar]

Beautiful

As I say, ‘I am always beginning’

 

[ncjohn]

Beautiful Barb!

I’ve not read much Merton at all, as I’ve mentioned to you, but I’m going to ask God to put him in my hands when I ask for my next book off the shelf. God tends to be quite good about putting what I need at the moment in my hands.

That idea of already “living in eternity” is one I’ve played with in my mind a few times. That I am here but already wherever the final destination will be simultaneously. Living here but simultaneously living in eternity in heaven (hopefully).

We are at the same time on the journey and arrived at the destination. We know the ending, but don’t know it yet. And in the end, of course, we still have to make the journey with all the choices that entails. I find great comfort in the journey however when I read this prayer from Thoughts in Solitude:

MY LORD GOD…
I have no idea where I am going.
I do not see the road ahead of me.
I cannot know for certain where it will end.
Nor do I really know myself,
And the fact that I think that I am following your will
Does not mean that I am actually doing so.
But I believe that the desire to please you
Does in fact please you.
And I hope I have that desire in all that I am doing.
I hope that I will never do anything apart from that desire.
And I know that if I do this you will lead me
by the right road though I may know nothing about it.
There will I trust you always though I may seem to be lost
and in the shadow of death.
I will never fear, for you are ever with me,
and you will never leave me to face my perils alone.

Peace Barb, and thanks for another bit of wisdom.

 

[InLight247]

We tend to think that eternity is something that begins after death. Rather we are in eternity now which has neither beginning nor end. Death and Heaven simply remain a stage in that eternity that is the eternal now.

Well said, Barb.

I have never read Thomas Merton. But I always believe heaven starts on earth.
And the heart controls one’s destiny.

From the point God gives us lives, we enter into God’s eternity.
If we know God and bring ourselves close to Him, if our hearts are full of peace, joy, hope, love and grace, we may consider as being in heaven. This heaven is not without struggles and pain, but the struggle of being holy can help us heading toward the Heaven.

If we are far away from God and our hearts are full of bitterness, selfishness, and darkness, then not only have we no taste of heaven, we are not likely heading toward Heaven either.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Very well said, I thought, InLight!

If we are in Grace then we are not only in eternity but in Heaven already - since Grace is a sharing in the Divine Life of God - and a stupendous and awesome thought. After death once we are purified and arrive where we call “Heaven” , it is where we will see God face to face in the Beatific Vision. This absolutely stuns even my very active imagination into absolute silence and darkness. Oh happy night! … What wondrous experiences are yet ahead of us including that one day we will walk and talk with Jesus and Our Lady, St. Joseph, and the saints…as well as the Sacred and Holy Beatific Vision…and I hope I can remember all that on my deathbed - I pray so - for death is sometimes called “the final crisis”. St. Joseph is the patron of a happy and joyous death.
We have much to praise and thank God always for!

Blessings and regards…Barb
iHs
St. Joseph patron of a happy and joyous death
please pray for us great patron of The Church!

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Beautiful Barb!

I’ve not read much Merton at all, as I’ve mentioned to you, but I’m going to ask God to put him in my hands when I ask for my next book off the shelf. God tends to be quite good about putting what I need at the moment in my hands.

That idea of already “living in eternity” is one I’ve played with in my mind a few times. That I am here but already wherever the final destination will be simultaneously. Living here but simultaneously living in eternity in heaven (hopefully).

We are at the same time on the journey and arrived at the destination. We know the ending, but don’t know it yet. And in the end, of course, we still have to make the journey with all the choices that entails. I find great comfort in the journey however when I read this prayer from Thoughts in Solitude:

MY LORD GOD…
I have no idea where I am going.
I do not see the road ahead of me.
I cannot know for certain where it will end.
Nor do I really know myself,
And the fact that I think that I am following your will
Does not mean that I am actually doing so.
But I believe that the desire to please you
Does in fact please you.
And I hope I have that desire in all that I am doing.
I hope that I will never do anything apart from that desire.
And I know that if I do this you will lead me
by the right road though I may know nothing about it.
There will I trust you always though I may seem to be lost
and in the shadow of death.
I will never fear, for you are ever with me,
and you will never leave me to face my perils alone.

Peace Barb, and thanks for another bit of wisdom.

Hi John…Your prayer of Thomas Merton is a favourite of mine too…it is absolutely beautiful huh?

That idea of already “living in eternity” is one I’ve played with in my mind a few times. That I am here but already wherever the final destination will be simultaneously. Living here but simultaneously living in eternity in heaven (hopefully).

The Doctrine of Sanctifying Grace is really extremely beautiful and entirely encouraging in every way (as is Active Grace which is always present with Sanctifying Grace). I went through an appalling and dreadful case of scruples many years ago for quite a long time and no matter which way I whatever, no way could I assure myself I was in the state of Grace coupled with consistently double thinking every little action thinking it was sinful. I wont go into how I was cured, but when it happened suddenly I knew I was in Grace and my joy was overwhelming. No matter how one tries to revisit these times of “overwhelming” one can never quite get there which is as things should be.

I dont know if you experience it, but though I know I am in the state of Grace and hence The Church assures me I will one day be in Heaven as long as I persevere, I still know that if and when I do go to Heaven it will be through God’s Mercy which I appeal to and will appeal to.
If we have not committed mortal sin and not in the state of mortal sin, The Church assures us we will be saved, through God’s Mercy. And yet we cannot be complacent about salvation “work out your own salvation in fear and trembling”.

St. Therese of Lisieux apparently found that spiritual books became too complex for her and left her very much cold and she found her comfort and consolation in the simplicity of Scripture.

This spiritual life and life of Faith business can be a confusing thing if one tries to test it with reason and logic at times. The darkness and nakedness of Faith is indeed a happy night!

Blessings John and regards…Barb
iHs

 

[ncjohn]

I dont know if you experience it, but though I know I am in the state of Grace and hence The Church assures me I will one day be in Heaven as long as I persevere, I still know that if and when I do go to Heaven it will be through God’s Mercy which I appeal to and will appeal to.
If we have not committed mortal sin and not in the state of mortal sin, The Church assures us we will be saved, through God’s Mercy. And yet we cannot be complacent about salvation “work out your own salvation in fear and trembling”.

While certainly not giving in to presumption, and recognizing that I can always fall away, I am greatly comforted by the fact that at least at this time it would be almost impossible for me to commit a mortal sin, requiring as it does a willing desire to separate one’s self from God. It does at time get hard to balance that against the knowledge that I am completely unworthy regardless, and that my only worthiness comes from the fact that God has proclaimed me to be “beloved” in His sight.

From Psalm 91:
Whoever clings to me I will deliver;
whoever knows my name I will set on high.
All who call upon me I will answer;
I will be with them in distress;
I will deliver them and give them honor.

This spiritual life and life of Faith business can be a confusing thing if one tries to test it with reason and logic at times. The darkness and nakedness of Faith is indeed a happy night!

Absolutely Barb! “Head” knowledge won’t get us into heaven. Trusting with childlike faith and passing His love on to those we meet out of gratitude at having been loved is still the way through the narrow gate.

Peace,

 

[BarbaraTherese]

While certainly not giving in to presumption, and recognizing that I can always fall away, I am greatly comforted by the fact that at least at this time it would be almost impossible for me to commit a mortal sin, requiring as it does a willing desire to separate one’s self from God. It does at time get hard to balance that against the knowledge that I am completely unworthy regardless, and that my only worthiness comes from the fact that God has proclaimed me to be “beloved” in His sight.

From Psalm 91:
Whoever clings to me I will deliver;
whoever knows my name I will set on high.
All who call upon me I will answer;
I will be with them in distress;
I will deliver them and give them honor.

Absolutely Barb! “Head” knowledge won’t get us into heaven. Trusting with childlike faith and passing His love on to those we meet out of gratitude at having been loved is still the way through the narrow gate.

Peace,

Hi John…Beautiful extract from the Psalms above, which is one of the reasons I love The Divine Office so much. The quote above reminded me of : “Come to me all ye who labour and I will give you rest”.

Thank goodness we dont need “head” knowledge for salvation…I’d be in considerable trouble I know.

Blessings and Peace…Barb
iHs

 

[blessedstar]

I will say there is no darkness in God, it is only us so dulled and darkened that we cannot tolerate His most sublime yet intense light. If you stare into the sun you are blinded, so when we are deeply submerged into the Light of God we are seemingly in darkness, but there is no such darkness in God, He is only light and life.

It is always the case that when we are accustomed to the light we can see and after a period of adjustment we come out the other side richer and enlightened to the ways in which God works in the soul.

It is no mystery, God is far beyond our human thinking, why then would we be amazed that when we are drawn close to Him for His glory that we feel blinded and left in darkness when exactly the opposite is happening. We are silly creatures, so distrusting. Sweet so-called darkness that is truly light to the dark soul and leads to ultimate bliss. If we had any wisdom at all we would desire to be left without all consolation.

In my Living Prayer of life.

 

[littleone]

Beautiful

n my Living Prayer of life.

---

As I say, ‘I am always beginning’

I thank you Lord for a sister as Therese thank You Lord.
I can so much relate to " I am always just begining"!!! I am so much still beging. I have a new job and as in all jobs I start again and it is NOT in the human sence so much but Jesus using these jobs to take the sandpaper the grade He desires to sand off me the humanness. Oh and my humanness repells against it wondering why, when I try to do the best job it turns to ashes and brings joy to those around me, dispells the temper in them the bgad language. I feel so AAAAAAHHHHH.

I go to work all elated and leave so deflated BUT and it is the BUT that counts, I know that Jesus my Lord and my God who loves me imaginably and imeasurably is being glorified and that… I love sooooo much. I take a step in my humanness and fall down three or two and it is in this that I cry out My Jesus take me, lift me, I can’t do it without You. Please help me.

Yes, All is always a new begining until Jesus tells Himself enough, I have Wayne right where I can do what I want.
And then the perfect Love He desires will be created in me for His use.

Oh presious Jesus. All is Yours
God bless
littleone

 

[BarbaraTherese]

It is no mystery, God is far beyond our human thinking, why then would we be amazed that when we are drawn close to Him for His glory that we feel blinded and left in darkness when exactly the opposite is happening. We are silly creatures, so distrusting. Sweet so-called darkness that is truly light to the dark soul and leads to ultimate bliss.

In Grace ***all ***is Grace and is Graced - if only we will accept and invest in the Grace and the Graced…

Blessings - Barb
iHs

 

[ncjohn]

Quote: littleone
…Jesus using these jobs to take the sandpaper the grade He desires to sand off me the humanness.

What a precious image!

I can just picture Jesus, the Master Carver, sitting patiently at his workbench, sanding away my rough edges so that I can be his masterpiece when he’s done.

Of course it’s tough to sand a squirming object…

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I think what Thomas Merton is describing is “faith” as St. John of the Cross describes it, in being a dark night.

When we receive faith, it is like a dark night, where we see very little. As we grow in faith, various things take on light and become illuminated as part of our understanding. God in his wisdom, only illuminates those things about himself that we are ready for. As we grow, we go through the process of transforming union, things take on light and we see more than when we first received faith. All the time, we are drawn towards the source of light, which is Christ Jesus. We receive the fullness of light when we are united in spiritual marriage with him.

Jim

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Quote: littleone
…Jesus using these jobs to take the sandpaper the grade He desires to sand off me the humanness.

What a precious image!

I can just picture Jesus, the Master Carver, sitting patiently at his workbench, sanding away my rough edges so that I can be his masterpiece when he’s done.

Of course it’s tough to sand a squirming object…

Hi John and LittleOne…the more sat here and thought about the image of “sandpaper and Jesus”, the more it came home to me how very apt, very apt, an image it is…

Blessings - Barb

 

[BarbaraTherese]

I think what Thomas Merton is describing is “faith” as St. John of the Cross describes it, in being a dark night.

When we receive faith, it is like a dark night, where we see very little. As we grow in faith, various things take on light and become illuminated as part of our understanding. God in his wisdom, only illuminates those things about himself that we are ready for. As we grow, we go through the process of transforming union, things take on light and we see more than when we first received faith. All the time, we are drawn towards the source of light, which is Christ Jesus. We receive the fullness of light when we are united in spiritual marriage with him.

Jim

Thanks Jim. You have summarized it all in very few words. And while it sounds quite simple, the actual journey is another matter altogether…

Blessings - Barb

 

[BarbaraTherese]

I think what Thomas Merton is describing is “faith” as St. John of the Cross describes it, in being a dark night.

When we receive faith, it is like a dark night, where we see very little. As we grow in faith, various things take on light and become illuminated as part of our understanding. God in his wisdom, only illuminates those things about himself that we are ready for. As we grow, we go through the process of transforming union, things take on light and we see more than when we first received faith. All the time, we are drawn towards the source of light, which is Christ Jesus. We receive the fullness of light when we are united in spiritual marriage with him.

Jim

Dear Jim…checking this thread tonight for any needed response, on re reading my post to you:

Thanks Jim. You have summarized it all in very few words. And while it sounds quite simple, the actual journey is another matter altogether…
Blessings - Barb

…I thought with the re-read tonight that I may have sounded quite curt in my response above. I had not intended this as I realized that in writing of “a dark night” to the “spiritual marriage” you were not without understanding or perhaps even experience and hence would know that the stating of a concept in writing is not all that difficult to do, but to actually live it out can be another matter entirely. My sincere apologies if I did sound curt …the problem of touch typing the written word when the spoken word with voice inflections can be fully informative of meaning. I need to get into the habit of using Smilies more to convey what a voice inflection would normally effect.

Regards and apologies again!..Barb
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_14_5.gif iHs

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Dear Jim…checking this thread tonight for any needed response, on re reading my post to you:

…I thought with the re-read tonight that I may have sounded quite curt in my response above. I had not intended this as I realized that in writing of “a dark night” to the “spiritual marriage” you were not without understanding or perhaps even experience and hence would know that the stating of a concept in writing is not all that difficult to do, but to actually live it out can be another matter entirely. My sincere apologies if I did sound curt …the problem of touch typing the written word when the spoken word with voice inflections can be fully informative of meaning. I need to get into the habit of using Smilies more to convey what a voice inflection would normally effect.

Regards and apologies again!..Barb
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_14_5.gif iHs

No apologies necessary. I found nothing offensive or inaccurate in your original response.

As far as being difficult to live it out, that’s true, but mostly because of our own fault in that we can only grow in relation to the degree we detach ourselves from the things that keep us from growing closer to God. This is difficult and it is the transforming grace God gives us, that helps us.

As the scripture says, “no longer I, but Christ who lives within me.” It is He who transforms me. On my own, I’m nothing but a great sinner. But through grace given to me out of His great mercy, I am transformed.

God Bless
Jim

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Quoting JimR-OCDS

no apologies necessary. I found nothing offensive or inaccurate in your original response.

Thank for the reassurance, Jim. It did take me aback when I read my response last night.

As far as being difficult to live it out, that’s true, but mostly because of our own fault in that we can only grow in relation to the degree we detach ourselves from the things that keep us from growing closer to God. This is difficult and it is the transforming grace God gives us, that helps us.

I had never thought before that the reason we do indeed suffer and experience difficulties is because we are not sufficiently detached and from ourselves etc. Sounds very logical indeed. And Grace, indeed, is never lacking.

As the scripture says, “no longer I, but Christ who lives within me.” It is He who transforms me. On my own, I’m nothing but a great sinner. But through grace given to me out of His great mercy, I am transformed.

I agree wholeheartedly with this too…“all is Grace”. I have been quite 'smitten" lately by the theological concept that God not only forgives and forgets our sins repented of, but it is as if they never existed in the first place and this too is of Grace. “Thy great Mercy, Lord, is without end”

God bless also and regards…Barb
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_14_5.gif iHs

 

[blessedstar]

I have been quite 'smitten" lately by the theological concept that God not only forgives and forgets our sins repented of, but it is as if they never existed in the first place and this too is of Grace. “Thy great Mercy, Lord, is without end”

God bless also and regards…Barb
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_14_5.gif iHs

It took me a long time to understand that my sins once confessed are not only forgiven but are as though they never existed because God has wiped them from His own mind and will not recall them.

I used to spend long agonising hours considering my very wicked past and after conversion in faith, my not too shiny present. I would cry over my sins and ask God for mercy. I was angry at myself for ever committing them. I wanted to be perfect and found at every turn I am nothing but perfect, I am a sinner.

It was after a long time and much prayer I realised that to ‘be perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect’ I must come to Jesus, it is as simple as that. This is not something I can achieve, but what God will achieve in me if He so wills. How will He achieve this? By His mercy by giving me the grace to repent, by forgiving me and by kindly giving me the grace not to sin again. How did He do all of this for me? By dying on the Cross instilled in the Sacraments of the Church.

This is when my great love of the Cross came into being and it has never left me to this day all these years later. God has given me a great love for Jesus Crucified and for that I am most grateful because here I see how much God loves me who am made of the same atoms of dust and I am as dust and will return to dust. This is also when my great love of Priests came into being and I was compelled to give my life for the Priest hood, vocations to the Priesthood, conversion of people to Jesus and Peace on Earth. It is God’s salvific work that converts people by the power of the Holy Spirit and by the work of His Cross God made peace between men, and between man and God.

This love of the Cross has brought me great joy. I have joy because I know God loves me, I have joy because I am constantly being made anew in Jesus by His work of the Cross, I have joy because in Jesus I may live and in my cross I too may live in Jesus and so may others because of His Cross.

God’s Blessings of Divine Mercy to you this night.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

It took me a long time to understand that my sins once confessed are not only forgiven but are as though they never existed because God has wiped them from His own mind and will not recall them.

I used to spend long agonising hours considering my very wicked past and after conversion in faith, my not too shiny present. I would cry over my sins and ask God for mercy. I was angry at myself for ever committing them. I wanted to be perfect and found at every turn I am nothing but perfect, I am a sinner.

It was after a long time and much prayer I realised that to ‘be perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect’ I must come to Jesus, it is as simple as that. This is not something I can achieve, but what God will achieve in me if He so wills. How will He achieve this? By His mercy by giving me the grace to repent, by forgiving me and by kindly giving me the grace not to sin again. How did He do all of this for me? By dying on the Cross instilled in the Sacraments of the Church.

This is when my great love of the Cross came into being and it has never left me to this day all these years later. God has given me a great love for Jesus Crucified and for that I am most grateful because here I see how much God loves me who am made of the same atoms of dust and I am as dust and will return to dust. This is also when my great love of Priests came into being and I was compelled to give my life for the Priest hood, vocations to the Priesthood, conversion of people to Jesus and Peace on Earth. It is God’s salvific work that converts people by the power of the Holy Spirit and by the work of His Cross God made peace between men, and between man and God.

This love of the Cross has brought me great joy. I have joy because I know God loves me, I have joy because I am constantly being made anew in Jesus by His work of the Cross, I have joy because in Jesus I may live and in my cross I too may live in Jesus and so may others because of His Cross.

God’s Blessings of Divine Mercy to you this night.

Hello BlessedStar…God has richly blessed you and after a period of suffering sent you great consolation…Let us praise and thank Him for His Great Love is without end…

Regards and Blessings - Barb
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_14_2.gifJMJ