The days in Genesis (Creation)

[David_Vestal]

Thoughts on this.

When we are reading in Genesis during the creation period, we see that God created light and day and time on the fourth day God closed it out, I guess my point is from day 1 - 6 God closed out the day but when you read the verses God never closed out the 7th day so that would implicate some things
A. Adam and Eve got kicked out of the Garden on the 7th day
B. Adam and Eve died as God told them they would on the 7th Day
C. The Sabbath is the 7 th day
D. If God never closed it out we are still living time wise IN the 7th day that God rested on

Gen 1:31

31 And God saw all the things that he had made, and they were very good. And the evening and morning were the sixth day.

Gen 2

3 And he blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. 4 These are the generations of the heaven and the earth, when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the heaven and the earth:

 

[spauline]

No, the days of Creation, according to Tradition, are simply a metaphor for the FORTHCOMING RE-creation of the world, that will begin unfolding with the Fall itself.

Hence a day consists in first evening, then morning, that is, first darkness then light, that is, first sin, then redemption.

Hence, from the fall until now has been seven days, but we are only in the darkness of the seventh day, the morning has not yet come.

Here are some ECFs:

Lactantius, Ecclesial Apologist (250 – 317 AD):

Since all the works of God were completed in six days, the world must continue through six ages, that is, six thousand years. For the great Day of God is limited by a circle of a thousand years , as the prophet shows, who says: ‘In Thy sight, O Lord, a thousand years are as one day’ (Ps. 89:4). And as God labored during those six days in creating such great works, so His religion must labor during these six thousand years, while wickedness prevails and bears rule. And again, since God, having finished His works, rested on the seventh day and blessed it, at the end of the six thousandth year all wickedness must be abolished from the earth, and righteousness reign for a thousand years; and here must be tranquility and rest from the labors which the world now long has endured.

(The Divine Institutes, Lactantius, Ante-Nicene Fathers, Henrickson Pub., Peabody, MA, 1995, Vol. 7, p. 211)

St. Augustine’s First Solution to the Millennium of Rev. 20:

Those who, on the strength of this passage (Rev. 20:1-6), …have been moved, among other things, specially by the number of a thousand years, as if it were a fit thing that the saints should thus enjoy a kind of Sabbath-rest during that period, a holy leisure after the labors of sixthousand years since man was created… (and) there should follow on the completion of six thousand years, as of six days, a kind of seventh-day Sabbath in the succeeding thousand years;… And this opinion would not be objectionable, if it were believed that the joys of the saints, in that Sabbath shall be spiritual, and consequent on the presence of God.(City of God, Bk. XX, Chp. 7)

Epistle of St. Barnabas, Chapter XV:

The Sabbath is mentioned at the beginning of the creation [thus]: “And God made in six days the works of His hands, and made an end on the seventh day, and rested on it, and sanctified it.” Attend, my children, to the meaning of this expression, “He finished in six days.” This implieth that the Lord will finish all things in six thousand years, for a day is with Him a thousand years. And He Himself testifieth, saying, “Behold, to-day will be as a thousand years.” Therefore, my children, in six days, that is, in six thousand years, all things will be finished. “And He rested on the seventh day.” This meaneth: when His Son, coming [again], shall destroy the time of the wicked man, and judge the ungodly, and change the-sun, and the moon, and the stars, then shall He truly rest on the seventh day. … Behold, therefore: certainly then one properly resting sanctifies it, when we ourselves, having received the promise, wickedness no longer existing, and all things having been made new by the Lord, shall be able to work righteousness. Then we shall be able to sanctify it, having been first sanctified ourselves. Further, He says to them, “Your new moons and your Sabbath I cannot endure.” Ye perceive how He speaks: Your present Sabbaths are not acceptable to Me, but that is which I have made, [namely this,] when, giving rest to all things, I shall make a beginning of the eighth day, that is, a beginning of another world. Wherefore, also, we keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead.

more continued in next post:

 

[spauline]

St. Methodius of Olympus, Ecclesiastical Writer (+300 AD):

Writing on the eight ages of the world: “Five are the ages of the old law, the sixth age is designated to the Church, the seventh is the millennium of rest [when Christ will reign over the earth], and the eighth designates the eternity of heaven” (New Catholic Encyclopedia, Ibid., Vol. IX, p. 742)

Now leaving the book on the Millennium by Father Iannuzzi above, the following quote I discovered by St. Augustine concerning the “six ages of the world” to correspond essentially exactly as I had attempted to partition the “five kings who have fallen” (Rev. 17:9) and the “five ages of the old law” of St. Methodius and St. Hypollytus above:

St. Augustine, On the Catechising of the Uninstructed

CHAP. 17.–THE SPECIMEN OF CATECHETICAL DISCOURSE CONTINUED, IN REFERENCE SPECIALLY TO THE REPROVAL OF FALSE AIMS ON THE CATECHUMEN’S PART

.…28. "Now, on the subject of this rest Scripture is significant, and refrains not to speak, when it tells us how at the beginning of the world, and at the time when God made heaven and earth and all things which are in them, He worked during six days, and rested on the seventh day. For it was in the power of the Almighty to make all things even in one moment of time. For He had not labored in the view that He might enjoy (a needful) rest, since indeed “He spake, and they were made; He commanded, and they were created;” but that He might signify how, after six ages of this world, in a seventh age, as on the seventh day, He will rest in His saints; inasmuch as these same saints shall rest also in Him after all the good works in which they have served Him,–which He Himself, indeed, works in them, who calls them, and instructs them, and puts away the offenses that are past, and justifies the man who previously was ungodly. For as, when by His gift they work that which is good, He is Himself rightly said to work (that in them), so, when they rest in Him, He is rightly said to rest Himself. For, as regards Himself, He seeks no. cessation, because He feels no labor Moreover He made all things by His Word; and His Word is Christ Himself, in whom the angels and all those purest spirits of heaven rest in holy silence…

CHAP. 22.–OF THE SIX AGES OF THE WORLD.

1. "Five ages of the world, accordingly, having been now completed (there has entered the sixth). Of these ages the first is from the beginning of the human race, that is, from Adam, who was the first man that was made, down to Noah, who constructed the ark at the time of the flood. Then the second extends from that period on to Abraham, who was called the father indeed of all nations which should follow the example of his faith, but who at the same time in the way of natural descent from his own flesh was the father of the destined people of the Jews; which people, previous to the entrance of the Gentiles into the Christian faith, was the one people among all the nations of all lands that worshipped the one true God: from which people also Christ the Saviour was decreed to come according to the flesh. For these turning-points of those two ages occupy an eminent place in the ancient books. On the other hand, those of the other three ages are also declared in the Gospel, where the descent of the Lord Jesus Christ according to the flesh is likewise mentioned. For the third age extends from Abraham on to David the king; the fourthfrom David on to that captivity whereby the people of God passed over into Babylonia; and the fifth from that transmigration down to the advent of our Lord Jesus Christ. With His coming the sixth age has entered on its process; so that now the spiritual grace, which in previous times was known to a few patriarchs and prophets, may be made manifest to all nations; to the intent that no man should worship God but freely, fondly desiring of Him not the visible rewards of His services and the happiness of this present life, but that eternal life alone in which he is to enjoy God Himself: in order that in this sixth age the mind of man may be renewed after the image of God, even as on the sixth day man was made after the image of God.

 

[strngrnrth]

The word “day” is a translation of a Hebrew compound meaning “dark-light”. Astronomers use that word to mean any passage of any body from light to dark and back (as a star passes from spiral arm to spiral arm) or rotation period.
The first day began with the creation of light (Big Bang). Thus it lasted until a cooling of matter (darkening, in which the fluids above the solids separated from those trapped below the solids and the mineral matter or “earth” in between solidified) and then a renewed brightness as matter attracted matter and left large spaces where ligth could be seen. Thus a darkening and lightening were the first day. That was aperiod of several billion years. The second day, which happened at the same time as the planet Earth became cool enough to allow life to begin, happened in roughly one rotation (day) of a cluster of galaxies of which the Milky Way is part. Life began in the sea. The third day saw non-flowering plants spread over land, and animal sea life begin to take wing and go out of the water. It took about one Milky Way Day (480 million years). The sky cleared and the stars, sun and moon became lights, rather than indistinct sources of undifferentiated light, to allow some creatures to keep a circadian rhythm. This was a cosmic day, in which our sun traveled the galaxy. In the next day, a spiral arm day, 11,000 years, mammal life developed, and in the period of a few hundred years in which our solar system spins once, a human being was born with all the elements of the clay, and with the image and breath of God, a male-female intelligent solitary being who left no evidence because he did not die and leave a skeleton. No change occurred in the seventh day, which may have been roughly a month, the time in which our sun turns, but the Fall, which caused massive mutation and die-offs, was a huge change. Thus the Fall must have occurred on Day Eight, probably an actual earth day.

 

[Joe_5859]

Dr. Scott Hahn puts forth an interesting take on Genesis 1 in his book Understanding the Scriptures. He points out the literary form of the passage. In the first three days, God creates time, space, and life, and in the next three days he creates rulers over these three realms.

Day 1: Day and night (time)
Day 2: Sky and sea (space)
Day 3: Land and vegetation (life)

Day 4: Sun and Moon (to rule over day and night)
Day 5: Birds and fish (to rule over the sky and sea)
Day 6: Humans and animals (to rule over the land and vegetation)

Day 7 is the crown of creation. The roof of the structure, if you will.

I think it’s an interesting take. There is definitely a literary structure to the account.

And I would say we are not living in the 7th day. It would be more accurate to say that we are living in the 8th day, the day of our re-creation in Christ. The Early Church Fathers often referred to the day of Christ’s resurrection as the 8th day (it occurred the day after the 7th day of the week). That’s why Christians celebrate on Sunday (the 1st/8th day), not Saturday (the 7th day).

 

[spauline]

And I would say we are not living in the 7th day. It would be more accurate to say that we are living in the 8th day, the day of our re-creation in Christ. The Early Church Fathers often referred to the day of Christ’s resurrection as the 8th day (it occurred the day after the 7th day of the week). That’s why Christians celebrate on Sunday (the 1st/8th day), not Saturday (the 7th day).

Day eight is not fulfilled until the General Resurrection. If you are Augustinian, we are living in the sixth day, the age of the Church. If you follow the general private revelation instead, the sixth day has passed, and we are in the night of the seventh day. Either way, we are not in the eighth day, because that is beyond human history, the UNENDING New Creation. At least ,when we apply the metaphor to Salvation history.

 

[Joe_5859]

Day eight is not fulfilled until the General Resurrection. If you are Augustinian, we are living in the sixth day, the age of the Church. If you follow the general private revelation instead, the sixth day has passed, and we are in the night of the seventh day. Either way, we are not in the eighth day, because that is beyond human history, the UNENDING New Creation. At least ,when we apply the metaphor to Salvation history.

So, in the Augstinian view, Genesis 2:2 (God resting on the 7th day) hasn’t happened yet?

Couldn’t you say that the 8th day began with the Resurrection of Jesus? Thus, we would at least be living in the beginning of the 8th day even if its ultimate fulfillment is in heaven? Or maybe I’m just pushing the metaphor too far?

I admit I haven’t really read much on this. If you have any links to articles/documents on this, please share!

 

[spauline]

So, in the Augstinian view, Genesis 2:2 (God resting on the 7th day) hasn’t happened yet?

Couldn’t you say that the 8th day began with the Resurrection of Jesus? Thus, we would at least be living in the beginning of the 8th day even if its ultimate fulfillment is in heaven? Or maybe I’m just pushing the metaphor too far?

I admit I haven’t really read much on this. If you have any links to articles/documents on this, please share!

well,no, on one layer of meaning, i think we could say that we are in the eighth day, yes, as a secondary meaning of the days.

But it is the idea that the days OF creation themselves POINT to a greater reality, that of the RE-creation of the world, that is, the REDEMPTION of man, the remaking of man in God’s Image through his restoration. In that vein, the entire history of Salvation is eight, days, inclusive, from the Fall to the general Resurrection.

For a deeper commentary, you could see the quotes I Have above, for a full reading, try the following article by Augustine, which is quoted above:

newadvent.org/fathers/1303.htm

On the Catechising of the Uninstructed

see chapters 17 and 22

also see the quotes above from earlier Fathers.

Maybe this will help you.

blessings,
scott

 

[Joe_5859]

well,no, on one layer of meaning, i think we could say that we are in the eighth day, yes, as a secondary meaning of the days.

But it is the idea that the days OF creation themselves POINT to a greater reality, that of the RE-creation of the world, that is, the REDEMPTION of man, the remaking of man in God’s Image through his restoration. In that vein, the entire history of Salvation is eight, days, inclusive, from the Fall to the general Resurrection.

For a deeper commentary, you could see the quotes I Have above, for a full reading, try the following article by Augustine, which is quoted above:

newadvent.org/fathers/1303.htm

On the Catechising of the Uninstructed

see chapters 17 and 22

also see the quotes above from earlier Fathers.

Maybe this will help you.

blessings,
scott

Ahh, I think I understand what you’re getting at now. Thanks for the link!

 

[David_Vestal]

Wow those are diffrent views
so you would not disagree in calling now the 7th day, and the 8th day would be judgement day??

 

[spauline]

Wow those are diffrent views
so you would not disagree in calling now the 7th day, and the 8th day would be judgement day??

I realize that i am in a dangerous position, seeing as the Church has tended towards Augustine in its view of this. That is, the Church has tended to allegorize away either the seventh or eighth days, so that the Church era has but two primary darknesses, pagan Rome in the beginning, and the Antichrist at the very end, leaving the Millennium as the intervening light that spans them.

But this view is not the most ideal when we consider the plethora of fully approved private revelation we now have that speaks of an intermediate darkness, the current minor apostasy, and subsequent reunion of Christians and age of spiritual peace.

Hence, ideally, the sixth day has passed, because the sun that shone in Catholic Christendom has now set, placing us in the darkness of the seventh day, so that the light that is coming is the glorious age of peace, in which Catholicism shall be restored and reign in most of the earth before the final falling away at the end.

So I think the Church needs to reconsider these days of creation metaphors that have been forgotten, or else assumed to be totally bogus from a presumed inseparable connection with chiliasm, which the Church condemns.

 

[David_Vestal]

And by the end, you just mean judgment day?

 

[spauline]

And by the end, you just mean judgment day?

right, that is, the great apostasy, tribulation and Second Coming, the end of time, the General Resurrection and General Judgement, and eternal New Creation.

 

[David_Vestal]

right, that is, the great apostasy, tribulation and Second Coming, the end of time, the General Resurrection and General Judgement, and eternal New Creation.

Wow I just remember reading Jesus will judge the world, no need for that other stuff, its quite simple rather. None of that stuff is Biblical; second coming??? Um you lost me with second coming

 

[spauline]

Wow I just remember reading Jesus will judge the world, no need for that other stuff, its quite simple rather. None of that stuff is Biblical; second coming??? Um you lost me with second coming

don’t know why you are confused: a little before the world ends, there will be a great apostasy, a deception, a great persecution of the Church, followed by and including the great tribulation of the end. At an indeterminate time in the great Tribulation, Jesus will come again on the clouds of Heaven to judge the Living and the Dead. At that time, time ends, the world is recreated, all men receive their bodies in Resurrected form, the just unto eternal life, the damned, unto Hell. And this New Creation shall have no end.

That is all either dogma or general teaching and in Scripture. see 2 Thess. 2, see 2 Peter 3, see Matthew 25, Matthew 24.

What do you mean by, " none of this is Biblical"?

 

[David_Vestal]

don’t know why you are confused: a little before the world ends, there will be a great apostasy, a deception, a great persecution of the Church, followed by and including the great tribulation of the end. At an indeterminate time in the great Tribulation, Jesus will come again on the clouds of Heaven to judge the Living and the Dead. At that time, time ends, the world is recreated, all men receive their bodies in Resurrected form, the just unto eternal life, the damned, unto Hell. And this New Creation shall have no end.

That is all either dogma or general teaching and in Scripture. see 2 Thess. 2, see 2 Peter 3, see Matthew 25, Matthew 24.

What do you mean by, " none of this is Biblical"?

Not exactly, the Catholic standpoint is a-millenia, none of the tribulation and all that is Catholic doctrine, however we do wait for Jesus to return to JUDGE the living and the dead as the creed says. I am mean where does Christ dwell? Then Jesus is already here, but what we are waiting for is judgment day, not all this post-apocalyptic hibber jabber, if any of those things happened they did already but it was not anywhere our lifetime to see it
There is a very good book by Paul Thigpen called “Rapture Trap” i bought it and read it was very worth while reading.

 

[spauline]

Not exactly, the Catholic standpoint is a-millenia, none of the tribulation and all that is Catholic doctrine, however we do wait for Jesus to return to JUDGE the living and the dead as the creed says. I am mean where does Christ dwell? Then Jesus is already here, but what we are waiting for is judgment day, not all this post-apocalyptic hibber jabber, if any of those things happened they did already but it was not anywhere our lifetime to see it
There is a very good book by Paul Thigpen called “Rapture Trap” i bought it and read it was very worth while reading.

the Catholic Church only TENDS to be amillennial, the millennium has never been dogmatically defined, except to say what it isn’te, that is, it condemns chiliasm. But i am not advocating chiliasm. What happens in between pagan ROme and the very end is unsettled. Admittedly, the private reve scenarios are not Catholic doctrine. but by the fact that they are approved, it means they COULD happen, and that such scenario is not opposed to Catholic teaching.

ANd, therefore, since the Church also recognizes spiritual historicism as a possible layer of meaning in the apocalypse, theoretically, the scriptures could treat of this intermediate part, and it simply needs to be discovered through doctrinal development.

Consequently, you do not know entirely what you are talking about.

 

[Jzyehoshua]

I don’t agree with the day is a thousand years theory supporting evolution simply because of the order of events in Genesis 1.

-Plants are made before the sun and planets (v. 12, 14) so unless a literal 24-hour day wouldn’t have been able to survive without sunlight.
-Birds are made before land animals (v. 22, 24), which is contrary to evolutionary theory.
-Birds are made before or at the same time as sea creatures (v. 20, 21), not in keeping with evolutionary theory.

 

[spauline]

Not exactly, the Catholic standpoint is a-millenia, none of the tribulation and all that is Catholic doctrine, however we do wait for Jesus to return to JUDGE the living and the dead as the creed says. I am mean where does Christ dwell? Then Jesus is already here, but what we are waiting for is judgment day, not all this post-apocalyptic hibber jabber, if any of those things happened they did already but it was not anywhere our lifetime to see it
There is a very good book by Paul Thigpen called “Rapture Trap” i bought it and read it was very worth while reading.

also, I did not say the Kingdom is not already present, and that Jesus is not reigning. What we are talking about is DEGREES of His reigning. Already Jesus reigns in heaven and His Kingdom is on earth, the Woman, in REvelation 12. But is the dragon chained during this time? That’s BS. the dragon has been quite active during the last 2000 years. But in the age of peace, he’ll really be chained in a far more practical sense, because spiritual peace shall reign.

Therefore, Jesus already reigns from His Ascension, but not to the same degree. Yes, in the sixth day, the first age of the Church, Jesus reigns, but it is a period of distress, persecution, Christian division, etc. But in the seventh day, Jesus reign is far more practical, humanity having been restored to faith, and having found out the hard way that they need Him, they live the Gospel far more fervently, so much so, that it is a rest from the sin of history, not perfect, but a rest none the less.

Admittedly, this is just speculation, and not Catholic doctrine, but it is highly plausible and fits with far more Catholic and Scriptural data than the traditional Augustinian view.

Again, the Church has only TENDED towards amillennialism, but that is not dogma. It condemns chiliasm, but what I am proposing is somewhere in between these extremes. When all data and theology is analyzed, Augustinian amillennialism is inferior and leaves too many questions and problems unanswered.

but the ECF analogy of eight days answers all the questions and fits with all other data far better. It is just that this theology is virtually unknown because the Church has evidently assumed that the days of Creation model is INSEPARABLE from chiliasm, and hence bogus. But when we tweak it with the private reve scenario, everything fits perfectly.

 

[spauline]

Not exactly, the Catholic standpoint is a-millenia, none of the tribulation and all that is Catholic doctrine, however we do wait for Jesus to return to JUDGE the living and the dead as the creed says. I am mean where does Christ dwell? Then Jesus is already here, but what we are waiting for is judgment day, not all this post-apocalyptic hibber jabber, if any of those things happened they did already but it was not anywhere our lifetime to see it
There is a very good book by Paul Thigpen called “Rapture Trap” i bought it and read it was very worth while reading.

BTW, leaving aside the private rev scenarios, which treat of intermediate developmentst, the general events toward the end, though not dogma, ARE Church teaching in the basic sense, that is, the final developments of fullness of Gentiles, the great apostasy, the great tribulation (although not in fundamentalist sense) and the Second Coming, ARE all in the Catechism and Scripture.

Read it and weep:

CCC:

The glorious advent of Christ, the hope of Israel
[673](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/673.htm’) Since the Ascension Christ’s coming in glory has been imminent,566 even though "it is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has fixed by his own authority."567. This eschatological coming could be accomplished at any moment, even if both it and the final trial that will precede it are “delayed”.568
[674](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/674.htm’) The glorious Messiah’s coming is suspended at every moment of history until his recognition by “all Israel”, for “a hardening has come upon part of Israel” in their “unbelief” toward Jesus.569 St. Peter says to the Jews of Jerusalem after Pentecost: "Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out, that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that he may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus, whom heaven must receive until the time for establishing all that God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets from of old."570 St. Paul echoes him: "For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead?"571 ***The “full inclusion” of the Jews in the Messiah’s salvation, in the wake of “the full number of the Gentiles”,572 will enable the People of God to achieve “the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ”, in which “God may be all in all”.573 ***
The Church’s ultimate trial

[675](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/675.htm’)*** Before Christ’s second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers.574 The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth575 will unveil the “mystery of iniquity” in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh***.576
[676](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/676.htm’) The Antichrist’s deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgment. The Church has rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism,577 especially the “intrinsically perverse” political form of a secular messianism.578 [677](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/677.htm’) The Church will enter the glory of the kingdom only through this final Passover, when she will follow her Lord in his death and Resurrection.579 The kingdom will be fulfilled, then, not by a historic triumph of the Church through a progressive ascendancy, but only by God’s victory over the final unleashing of evil, which will cause his Bride to come down from heaven.580 God’s triumph over the revolt of evil will take the form of the Last Judgment after the final cosmic upheaval of this passing world.581