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Footwasher
Guest
May I refer you to my post of 29th Jan. 2010. St.Thomas Aquinas has already worked through this in his Summa T. Peace of Christ be with you.
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F
Footwasher
Guest
May I refer you to my post of 29th Jan.2010.St Thomas Aquinas worked through this in his Summa T. Peace of Christ be with you
J
jimmyjames
Guest
I think the word “dead” in this case, was refering to those who are physically alive, however spiritually dead, in other words, dead to sin.
Those who are spiritually dead, are blind to reality, even of their own mortality.
Those who are spiritually dead, are blind to reality, even of their own mortality.
P
panevino
Guest
there is a story included by Eusebius in “history of the church”
written early300’s
about a girl who is martyred
and prays/intercedes after she dies for someone still alive
and her request is granted.
it was a virgin called Potamiaena, see Eusebius book6:5
written early300’s
about a girl who is martyred
and prays/intercedes after she dies for someone still alive
and her request is granted.
it was a virgin called Potamiaena, see Eusebius book6:5
N
NHInsider
Guest
Scriptures that seem to indicate David’s confidence in an afterlife include Psalm 16 (“joy in your presence forever”) and Psalm 49 (which is a riff on the age-old question “why do the wicked prosper?”) and his expectation of seeing his son again (2 Sam. 12:23).I’d be happy if you can give me scripture that Solomon’s father- David did believe in an afterlife. That would be proof that Solomon did lean on his own understanding- much needed for my witness witnessing
Of course, since the JWs are already convinced that their interpretation is correct, they explain these verses differently.
I think the underlying problem is an insistence that every verse of Scripture be interpreted according to a certain, literalist standard. Different books have different genres, formats and backgrounds, and a truly literal (as the Catechism uses the term) rather than a literalist standard takes those differences into account. Which is to say, we must not force the text to be something it is not.
J
Javl
Guest
The JWs, and other cultists, do this. They do force the text to be something it is not and regardless of what proof you give otherwise they refuse to accept it or ignore it. In this case it is practically an exercise in futility.
PAX DOMINI
Shalom Aleichem
S
Stephen5
Guest
Those humans who die physically have no awarness of time passing on the earth … an example of this would be the thief on the cross … the Lord knew this truth and responded accordingly … the thief died and he will not awake until the Lord’s call to awaken him [Ecclesiastes 9:5; 1Corinthians 15:22-58]
Here is a search engine result on the subject:
Daniel 12:2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame [and] everlasting contempt.
Matthew 9:24 He said to them, “Make room, for the girl is not dead, but sleeping.” And they ridiculed Him.
Matthew 27:52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised;
Mark 5:39 When He came in, He said to them, “Why make this commotion and weep? The child is not dead, but sleeping.”
Luke 8:52 Now all wept and mourned for her; but He said, “Do not weep; she is not dead, but sleeping.”
John 11:11 These things He said, and after that He said to them, “Our friend Lazarus sleeps, but I go that I may wake him up.”
John 11:12 Then His disciples said, “Lord, if he sleeps he will get well.”
John 11:13 However, Jesus spoke of his death, but they thought that He was speaking about taking rest in sleep.
Acts 7:60 Then he knelt down and cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not charge them with this sin.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
Acts 13:36 "For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell asleep, was buried with his fathers, and saw corruption;
1 Cor 15:6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep.
1 Cor 15:18 Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.
1 Cor 15:20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, [and] has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
1 Cor 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed –
1 Thess 4:13 . But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.
1 Thess 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
1 Thess 4:15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive [and] remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
1 Thess 5:10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.
2 Peter 3:4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as [they were] from the beginning of creation.”
Here is a search engine result on the subject:
Daniel 12:2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame [and] everlasting contempt.
Matthew 9:24 He said to them, “Make room, for the girl is not dead, but sleeping.” And they ridiculed Him.
Matthew 27:52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised;
Mark 5:39 When He came in, He said to them, “Why make this commotion and weep? The child is not dead, but sleeping.”
Luke 8:52 Now all wept and mourned for her; but He said, “Do not weep; she is not dead, but sleeping.”
John 11:11 These things He said, and after that He said to them, “Our friend Lazarus sleeps, but I go that I may wake him up.”
John 11:12 Then His disciples said, “Lord, if he sleeps he will get well.”
John 11:13 However, Jesus spoke of his death, but they thought that He was speaking about taking rest in sleep.
Acts 7:60 Then he knelt down and cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not charge them with this sin.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
Acts 13:36 "For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell asleep, was buried with his fathers, and saw corruption;
1 Cor 15:6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep.
1 Cor 15:18 Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.
1 Cor 15:20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, [and] has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
1 Cor 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed –
1 Thess 4:13 . But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.
1 Thess 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
1 Thess 4:15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive [and] remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
1 Thess 5:10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.
2 Peter 3:4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as [they were] from the beginning of creation.”
P
piejesu
Guest
I think it is well understood that these are the writings of a somber old man who has become very jaded and nihilistic in his thinking. The scriptures must be read in context and always in the analogy of the faith.
R
RBoquist
Guest
I am doing research on this topic, and I ended up here. This is a response I wrote for the mis-interpretation of Ecclesiastes 9:5.
At Ecclesiastes 9:5 we read “The dead know nothing more, neither have they a reward any more: for the memory of them is forgotten.” When we look and the immediate context this verse was not intended for doctrinal basis, actually very early in the book the author claims to know nothing about the state of the dead (Eccl 3:21). If we turn to Eccl 9:3 we read “This is a very great evil among all things that are done under the sun, that the same things happen to all men,” This statement is in contradiction to the rest of the bible (Matt 25:46. Dan 12:2). Throughout Ecclesiastes Solomon (the author) uses phrases to indicate that what he is stating is not the view of Godly people, but that of “secular peoples.” The primary phrase he uses to this effect is “under the sun.” Now that this has been shown we can look at Eccl 9:5 again, but this time we will look at the entire thought (v. 4-6).
“4. There is no man that lives always, or that hopes for this: a living dog is better than a dead lion. 5. For the living know that they shall die, but the dead know nothing more, neither have they a reward any more: for the memory of them is forgotten. 6. Their love also, and their hatred, and their envy are all perished, neither have they any part in this world, and in the work that is done under the sun.”
This entire thought is in contradiction to the rest of scripture. For instance, “There is no man that lives always, or that hopes for this,” The hope of living always with Christ is the foundation of the Christian faith. Next we read “a living dog is better than a dead lion,” as Christ is in heaven, as well as those who are “asleep” in the Lord (Acts 7:60. 1 Cor 15:18 1 Thess 4:13-14), and they are all perfect, making them better than any “living dog.” Also in the middle of verse 5 we see “neither have they a reward any more,” this form of interpretation was refuted in the previous paragraph. Right at the beginning of verse 6 we read “Their love also, and their hatred, and their envy are all perished, neither have they any part in this world,” This is outright heretical. Love is eternal, as written at 1 Cor 13:8 (In the Douay-Rheims this verse is translated “Charity”, which is the physical manifestation of love), if Solomon is speaking in terms of Godly Wisdom than we would be forced to reject Paul’s letter and the rest of the New Testament.
Finally at the end of Eccl 9:6 we read, “neither have they any part in this world, and in the work that is done under the sun.” As demonstrated before this phrase (see underline) is used to indicate the secular view of the world. What Solomon is trying to point out in this entire book is the pointlessness of life without God, without something after this life.
“I have seen all things that are done under the sun, and behold all is vanity, and vexation of spirit”
-Ecclesiastes 1:14
If the formatting off, it’s because I pasted it from Microsoft Word.
Hope this helps, God bless!
At Ecclesiastes 9:5 we read “The dead know nothing more, neither have they a reward any more: for the memory of them is forgotten.” When we look and the immediate context this verse was not intended for doctrinal basis, actually very early in the book the author claims to know nothing about the state of the dead (Eccl 3:21). If we turn to Eccl 9:3 we read “This is a very great evil among all things that are done under the sun, that the same things happen to all men,” This statement is in contradiction to the rest of the bible (Matt 25:46. Dan 12:2). Throughout Ecclesiastes Solomon (the author) uses phrases to indicate that what he is stating is not the view of Godly people, but that of “secular peoples.” The primary phrase he uses to this effect is “under the sun.” Now that this has been shown we can look at Eccl 9:5 again, but this time we will look at the entire thought (v. 4-6).
“4. There is no man that lives always, or that hopes for this: a living dog is better than a dead lion. 5. For the living know that they shall die, but the dead know nothing more, neither have they a reward any more: for the memory of them is forgotten. 6. Their love also, and their hatred, and their envy are all perished, neither have they any part in this world, and in the work that is done under the sun.”
This entire thought is in contradiction to the rest of scripture. For instance, “There is no man that lives always, or that hopes for this,” The hope of living always with Christ is the foundation of the Christian faith. Next we read “a living dog is better than a dead lion,” as Christ is in heaven, as well as those who are “asleep” in the Lord (Acts 7:60. 1 Cor 15:18 1 Thess 4:13-14), and they are all perfect, making them better than any “living dog.” Also in the middle of verse 5 we see “neither have they a reward any more,” this form of interpretation was refuted in the previous paragraph. Right at the beginning of verse 6 we read “Their love also, and their hatred, and their envy are all perished, neither have they any part in this world,” This is outright heretical. Love is eternal, as written at 1 Cor 13:8 (In the Douay-Rheims this verse is translated “Charity”, which is the physical manifestation of love), if Solomon is speaking in terms of Godly Wisdom than we would be forced to reject Paul’s letter and the rest of the New Testament.
Finally at the end of Eccl 9:6 we read, “neither have they any part in this world, and in the work that is done under the sun.” As demonstrated before this phrase (see underline) is used to indicate the secular view of the world. What Solomon is trying to point out in this entire book is the pointlessness of life without God, without something after this life.
“I have seen all things that are done under the sun, and behold all is vanity, and vexation of spirit”
-Ecclesiastes 1:14
If the formatting off, it’s because I pasted it from Microsoft Word.
Hope this helps, God bless!
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