The dead...

[Sixtus]

Question. Why did Jesus Christ {our Creator} have to wait until the 3rd day to be resurrected from the dead but His creation does not ever die?

Had He rose within the hour, humanity would never have believed that He died. Certainly not the present age.

He died because He DIED IN OUR PLACE. On Calvary, judgment was passed on this world and because of its wickedness, it was condemned to death. That is WHY HE DIED.

Thank you Lord Jesus for dying for a wretch like me.

 

[NotWorthy]

“Just as Jonah resided three days in the belly of the whale…”

Prophecies and Fulfillments!!!

 

[Sixtus]

Not Worthy I’l say AMEN to that

 

[M_Oliver]

Punctation, grammer, translations, oh my
Punctation, grammer, translations, oh my.

no problem there.

since there is no upper and lower case as well,

The you will have no problem acknowledging Satan, Lucifier or whoever is being talked about as a God, as the God of this world?

2 Cor 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

2 Cor 4:4 in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of christ, who is the image of god, should shine unto them.

Does or does not the Bible recognize a God other than our Trinitarian God?

Brother, I have understood for years now that satan is the god of this world. That’s why I know that most of Christendom is flat out wrong. You are not telling me anything new, trust me.

 

[M_Oliver]

Revelation 6:9-10
When he broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of all the people who had been killed on account of the word of God, for witnessing to it. They shouted aloud, "Holy, faithful Master, how much longer will you wait before you pass sentence and take vengeance for our death on the inhabitants of the earth?"

**The Bible is saying that martyrs go to heaven before the Judgment. Note that this takes place before the resurrection, before the end of the world, before the Judgment, while life is going on as usual on the earth. Also, the martyrs, despite being “dead”, have their own memories, and remember that they have been martyred. So to say that these martyrs “know nothing” (Ecclesiastes 9:5) in the sense of being unconscious, or something like that, would be incorrect. **

Everybody is in such a hurry to read the Revelation of Jesus Christ they miss two very important words in just the first three verses.

First, “signified” {Rev. 1:1}. This word means to SYMBOLIZE. Christ tells us right from the get go that this book is a book of SYMBOLS. You are trying to make it literal.

Second, “keep” {Rev. 1:3}. How could ANYONE “keep” the words of this prophecy if it is literal. Has anyone reading this ever stopped to think about that for a minute? Try it out. Read the book and constantly remind yourself that Christ said you are blessed if you “keep” the words of this prophecy. If He meant that literally it is impossible.

But He did not and He tells us so right in the beginning. I was where you are once Joey, God willing it will pass.

 

[Mr.Ex_Nihilo]

No, the argument is not a valid one. The appearance of the dead Samuel to Saul in I Samuel 28:12-20 gives no indication of being a diabolical deception. The text does not support the SDA interpretation in the least. Indeed, no one would put forth such an uncontextual interpretation if they did not already hold to such a belief.

The inspired author is extremely clear in his belief that Samuel was Samuel. To wit: “When the woman saw Samuel…” (v. 12), “Samuel then said…” (v. 15), “To this Samuel said…” (v. 16), “…shaken by Samuel’s message.” (v. 20). Note that the author never once implies that Samuel isn’t Samuel. It is an SDA invention that Samuel wasn’t Samuel.

It is forbidden to contact the dead in order to gain information (Deuteronomy 18:9-14). Contacting the dead for information shows a lack of faith in God to supply what is necessary. This is exactly what Saul did in contacting Samuel.

" ‘I am in great straits, for the Philestines are waging war against me and GOD HAS ABANDONED ME. Since he no longer answers me through prophets or in dreams, I have called you to tell me what I should do’" (v. 15).

I see God as punishing Saul by allowing Samuel to appear to Saul in order to condemn him. This would be severe punishment–to be condemned by one’s hero. Our Lord used the same type of punishment on the unbelieving Jews.

“Do not imagine that I will be your accuser before the Father; the one to accuse you is Moses on whom you have set your hopes” (John 5:45).

How did the Jews themselves view the appearance of Samuel?

“Even while he (Samuel) lay buried, his guidance was sought; he made known to the king (Saul) his fate, and from the grave he raised his voice as a prophet, to put an end to wickedness” (Sirach 46:20).

It is obvious from the above that there was no doubt that Samuel was Samuel. No one saw his appearance as violating God’s revelation concerning the state of the dead.

Michael, may I suggest that you ask your SDA friend what is the point of a demon announcing the just judgment of God? Would a demon even know what God was about to do? Would a demon say the sacred name of God so often (vv. 16&17 once each, vv. 18&19 twice each)?

I believe that the evidence is clear. The context of I Samuel 28:12-20, as well as common sense, renders the SDA position on the state of the dead untenable.

Excellent post.

When one adds to this fact that Samuel also spoke the truth, and that’s God’s will did indeed come to pass through the words spoken by Samuel, it seems clear to me that God was indeed speaking through his spirit in this most unusual encounter.

 

[M_Oliver]

Excellent post.

When one adds to this fact that Samuel also spoke the truth, and that’s God’s will did indeed come to pass through the words spoken by Samuel, it seems clear to me that God was indeed speaking through his spirit in this most unusual encounter.

Scripture does not contradict, you know that, I know. If the spirit returns to God…

and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it. (Ecclesiastes 12:7)

you have to beleive that God is in the earth if you beleive this really was Samuel because that is where Scripture says “Samuel” came from…

The king said to her, “Do not be afraid. What do you see?” And the woman said to Saul, **“I see a god coming up out of the earth.” ** (1 Samuel 28:13)

This was not Samuel my friends.

 

[Mr.Ex_Nihilo]

Scripture does not contradict, you know that, I know. If the spirit returns to God…

and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it. (Ecclesiastes 12:7)

you have to beleive that God is in the earth if you beleive this really was Samuel because that is where Scripture says “Samuel” came from…

The king said to her, “Do not be afraid. What do you see?” And the woman said to Saul, **“I see a god coming up out of the earth.” ** (1 Samuel 28:13)

This was not Samuel my friends.

Kind of over-literal there M.

Hmmm…so what rule of logic do you use to employ when reading the Scriptures in order to determine when something is literal and something is a metaphor?

 

[GregoryPalamas]

Gentlemen and Ladies,

I suppose you keep responding to this fellow who is typical of so many others because you hope to bring him to the truth of Christ. That may happen. I don’t have the patience. He thinks his “insights” are superior. Not so. I’ve heard this stuff for years from countless numbers of people.

The truth is that when St. Paul wrote to St. Timothy that “The Church is the pillar and ground of truth” I believe him. So, we know that we live the Revelation in Mass or Divine Liturgy. We know that the martyrs who are in heaven are even now praying for us.

I pray for Oliver that he surrender to Christ and become part of His Church.

CDL

 

[hosemonkey]

M_Oliver is just like this guy Pro_Universal over on another CA Forum. He continually pulls everybody’s chain just to get a response. M_Oliver is just another self-proclaimed guru with web access who claims to have knowledge beyond all others. Even beyond the Fathers and scholars of the Church who have had nearly two thousand years to study the Scriptures and to teach their revealed meaning. They, according to the all-wise M_Oliver, have gotten it wrong. There was another all-wise individual, Joseph Smith, who also was able to get everybody squared around when he created the LDS church to save us all from error. It never ceases to amaze me, the arrogance of some people, particularly self-taught protestant “scholars” who are so quick to point out the “errors” of the Church that Jesus Christ Himself founded and entrusted to Peter and his successors. Ignore him, deny him a platform and he will go away and bother others. You are not going to overcome invincible ignorance.

 

[NotWorthy]

I propose that instead of assasinating M_Oliver’s motives or knowledge, we just keep giving him the Truth as Catholics teach it. I understand the baiting that M does, but for every M_Oliver or pro_universal on these forums, there are dozens of anonymous people reading these posts that may want to see how the Catholic Church answers these people. We must remember that we are talking to these people as well as M_Oliver. The only difference is that they may be listening, while he is not, but that’s not our problem. As of the time of this posting, there are 188 guests viewing these threads, compared with 81 members. Please keep these guests in mind when we are posting!!!

Now granted, I threw in a crack at M in an earlier post, and I think he understood that I was joking with him, as we have both done in the past with each other.

But let’s all try and remember that we are an Apologetics Forum and allow the Holy Spirit to work through all of us in our postings.

And who knows, we may see M and pro-universal crossing the Tiber soon!!! This is my prayer.

 

[hosemonkey]

God bless you for your charity, but people like that just get my nanny goat. Perhaps they are placed here to test us.

 

[deb1]

I propose that instead of assasinating M_Oliver’s motives or knowledge, we just keep giving him the Truth as Catholics teach it. I understand the baiting that M does, but for every M_Oliver or pro_universal on these forums, there are dozens of anonymous people reading these posts that may want to see how the Catholic Church answers these people. We must remember that we are talking to these people as well as M_Oliver. The only difference is that they may be listening, while he is not, but that’s not our problem. As of the time of this posting, there are 188 guests viewing these threads, compared with 81 members. Please keep these guests in mind when we are posting!!!

Now granted, I threw in a crack at M in an earlier post, and I think he understood that I was joking with him, as we have both done in the past with each other.

But let’s all try and remember that we are an Apologetics Forum and allow the Holy Spirit to work through all of us in our postings.

And who knows, we may see M and pro-universal crossing the Tiber soon!!! This is my prayer.

We have to remember that we are potentially reaching a much wider audience then just M Oliver. Even if we don’t convince him, we might convince a lurker reading these posts.

 

[M_Oliver]

He thinks his “insights” are superior. Not so. I’ve heard this stuff for years from countless numbers of people.

I am going to call you on this one. Who has, and where have you “heard for years”, that God the Father WILL NOT torture ANYONE in a mythical place called hell FOR ETERNITY?

Just one example of my “insights” as you say.

I pray for Oliver that he surrender to Christ and become part of His Church.

Write this down. You will get a chuckle out of it in the next age .